Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Jupiter]

Different opinions and views across different users i see. To my heart its Rift Apart that has that typical last gen vibe to it due to the lighting, for example. 2077 has inconsistent assets, however in the grand scheme of things 2077 maxed tops the list.

I think thats one of the 'problems', PS users in a RTX thread bashing pc gaming. Carries over to other topics the other way around.
You were for one saying that you'd switch your pc for a PS5, going from a 3060Ti. While also commenting RT was a priority, its a downgrade in every way.

Its not as polished as Rift Apart (closest in style, though ratched is more towards fantasy). but in the grandscheme of things, the total picture, 2077 maxed is technically outclassing every PS5 game. Some scenes dont add up, but to say, CP2077 has the potentional to look quite ahead of anything else. It doesnt always at any time, though rift apart has its weaknesses too, lighting is one. its a like a sore thump sticking out, reminding of last generation. its ray tracing is dead-simple aswell, its not as dense and as open as CP2077 is.

When Killzone 2 was released on PlayStation 3 with its 256 MB usable RAM and low resolution textures it was always said that the lighting makes the game.
Texture resolution is unimportant. Intersting how this has shifted. Now it seems that polygon count is above all.

 

[Below2D]

When Killzone 2 was released on PlayStation 3 with its 256 MB RAM it was always said that the lighting makes the game.

Texture resolution is unimportant. Intersting how this has shifted. Now it seems that polygon count is above all.

This depends. Polycount only matters up to a certain point. It needs to be high enough for the asset not to look too jagged. Past a certain point, it's difficult to discern the difference between say a 200K polygon mesh vs a 350K mesh.

 

[Jupiter]

Often one can also use POM to make an asset look as detailed as a much heavyer one. Mostly it will not be noticed if a small keyhole is real or only 2d POM.

 

[techuse]

This depends. Polycount only matters up to a certain point. It needs to be high enough for the asset not to look too jagged. Past a certain point, it's difficult to discern the difference between say a 200K polygon mesh vs a 350K mesh.

Other than UE5 we haven't gotten close to that point though. Even then we still have some ways to go, particularly since nanite has a current limited use case.

 

[Henry swagger]

Cyberpunk looks beautiful at night time but in the day time it looks average.. PlayStation studios and rockstar are the standard for elite graphics in console and pc games

 

[Karamazov]

 

[function]

PlayStation studios and rockstar are the standard for elite graphics in console and pc games

I mean, Playstation studios are good no doubt, but can you point to any ways in which they're using hardware - particularly PC where we have more insight - in ways that are beyond other top level developers?

Spiderman was being hyped as that in some circles, but as we've found out it's very good but it's certainly not "maximising the PC hardware" (I think that was NXG) or anything hyperbolic like that.

 

[Henry swagger]

I mean, Playstation studios are good no doubt, but can you point to any ways in which they're using hardware - particularly PC where we have more insight - in ways that are beyond other top level developers?

Spiderman was being hyped as that in some circles, but as we've found out it's very good but it's certainly not "maximising the PC hardware" (I think that was NXG) or anything hyperbolic like that.

Sony's secret is vfx art work not power aka teraflops to make beautiful games

 

[Jupiter]

Some still have to get used to the fact that lighting without ray tracing or very high quality gi is now an outdated thing from the last generation. Thats like not using PBS materials in 2015.

Cyberpunk looks beautiful at night time but in the day time it looks average.. PlayStation studios and rockstar are the standard for elite graphics in console and pc games

That may be what you wish for but it is certainly not the reality. I've never seen such good lighting as in Dying Light 2 or Cyberpunk 2077. I don't even know if I find Cyberpunk 2077 best at night or at evening or morning. In general, however, the lighting quality is stable due to ray tracing. That's not easy to achieve, especially with dynamic day and night changes.

In my view 40 fps is a good compromise. Unfortunately and due to many points it will not replace the 30 fps standard.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean, Playstation studios are good no doubt, but can you point to any ways in which they're using hardware - particularly PC where we have more insight - in ways that are beyond other top level developers? Spiderman was being hyped as that in some circles, but as we've found out it's very good but it's certainly not "maximising the PC hardware" (I think that was NXG) or anything hyperbolic like that.

In games you can always dial graphics up, but fundamentally Sony were not going to rebuild the entire Spider-Man graphics pipeline for PC. This is a game was ran on a 2013 1.8Tf PS4. It would be interesting to see what Naughty Dog, Insomniac or Sucker Punch could do it they build a game for PC only that targeted a 3070/80 in terms of graphical fidelity.

The reason so few games really do this, is because it's not economical. Not unless you've convinced people to give you half a billion dollars to fund it, because then actual sales don't matter!

 

[function]

Sony's secret is vfx art work not power aka teraflops to make beautiful games

Sony's games do tend to look very good and have a consistent style (I've not played much of them but that's my take) and I can see why people would really like them. That's getting into the subjective though. And that's cool, so long as it doesn't overshadow the techy side of things.

As this is the tech forum, I was thinking more along the lines of how they were using the hardware. Features used, approaches, tradeoffs, that kind of thing.

"Best looking" when it's about art and feelings can get quite personal, especially when brand allegiance is involved, and it does seem to lead to a few arguments!

In games you can always dial graphics up, but fundamentally Sony were not going to rebuild the entire Spider-Man graphics pipeline for PC. This is a game was ran on a 2013 1.8Tf PS4. It would be interesting to see what Naughty Dog, Insomniac or Sucker Punch could do it they build a game for PC only that targeted a 3070/80 in terms of graphical fidelity.

The reason so few games really do this, is because it's not economical. Not unless you've convinced people to give you half a billion dollars to fund it, because then actual sales don't matter!

I'm sure Naughty Dog are up there with the best, and that they could do some even more impressive things if they went full Crysis* and picked a high end PC baseline and went for it.

I'm thinking more about the hyperbole though. It's was never fair or realistic to expect that ND/Nixxes would be making a PS5 port that used the PC optimally and didn't have software issues. But that's what a least one Youtube analyst was basically claiming, and it just leads to ungrounded beliefs that fuel console warring, and the idea of "magic developers".

*Crytek did say later that working on consoles did make them use certain things more optimally - IIRC things like merging some buffers to save memory footprint and bandwidth. Still it was a very impressive game for the time with the right hardware.

 

[Jay]

What's the best looking art/tech game on the horizon?

The days of Crysis that won't have a console version planned is long gone.
Only game I can think of is star citizen.
More likely to get small indies titles that are PC only than big graphically advanced games.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The days of Crysis that won't have a console version planned is long gone.

More generally the days of exclusives are gone (or fast on their way out anyway). Personally I'm much happier to get all the big Xbox and Playstation games as well as all the 3rd party games vs getting none of the console exclusives, a subset of 3rd party games, and then a big PC exclusive once every year or two. And even those eventually got much watered down console releases.

 

[PSman1700]

This is a game was ran on a 2013 1.8Tf PS4.

Digital Foundry pointed out that the PS5 and PC versions are actually making use of the new hardware quite well, its not just a resolution and simple settings bump. Its the next-gen version of spiderman.

What's the best looking art/tech game on the horizon?

Probably RacerX that launches alongside Lovelace GPUs next month. Its head and shoulders above anything else on any platform.

The days of Crysis that won't have a console version planned is long gone.
Only game I can think of is star citizen.
More likely to get small indies titles that are PC only than big graphically advanced games.

Its the same the otherway around practically. Console exclusives are dwindling fast, remember that Sony is focusing more and more on the PC, which ultimately means that these great looking PS exclusives also land on PC, on which you get a even better version technically. The PC enjoys the middle land, you get Xbox, PS and PC games (and tech demo games etc). Most games go multiplat these days aswell, which means in case of the pc, its usually the best version technically.
Then we have indeed indie games, which tend to look quite impressive these days in special with ray tracing being easier to implement while making things look accurate and awesome to that. Theres also community and mods whom provide things like Q2RTX, MC RTX and dozens others.
Even for VR, so far with HL Alyx the pc has the most immersive, interactive and impressive VR experience (so far atleast), even HL2 can be played in VR which is said to be stunning for such an old title. Now with NV's new API you can revisit practically all old/BC games enhanced.

It might be true theres no 'Crysis' anymore (i think there is, like SC, RacerX and some others), PC still does have the edge in tech which sets these games apart like CP2077, where on PC maxed looks a generation apart from its console versions, mainly due to ray tracing but also the raw render requirements. Also lets not forget how heavy UE5 is on CPUs, which means 30fps on consoles or 60 but limited fideiity. Alder lake cpus and beyond do wonders there.
As the above poster noted, the PC is in a much better stance as it were one or two decades ago where we had to do with almost no console exclusives, even no console multiplats either (like SSX, timesplitters etc). Were just moving to a market where multiplat including is common, and thats a good thing. Also console>pc ports have gotten much and much better, it was terrible 10 to 20 years ago, same for the user experience (thanks to Steam and Windows improvements).

 

[snc]

 

[Silent_Buddha]

When Killzone 2 was released on PlayStation 3 with its 256 MB usable RAM and low resolution textures it was always said that the lighting makes the game.
Texture resolution is unimportant. Intersting how this has shifted. Now it seems that polygon count is above all.

Meh, I always thought KZ2's graphics were overrated. The blurry textures and low res alpha just looked horrible, IMO. That said, they at least used it creatively to try to enhance the look. Of course the fact that I didn't like it didn't prevent other people from feeling that the graphics were fantastic. Everyone focuses on different things when it comes to graphics which makes the overall look highly subjective in most cases.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

"Best looking" when it's about art and feelings can get quite personal...

Best looking is not a technical discussion. Apart from the fact people struggle to converse with people over this subjective concept even in the right discussion, this is a Technical Discussion thread. Posts should be about technology making graphics.

(And 'best' anything cannot be proven right/wrong without a metric, so no-one can be right with the belief that "I'm right when I say your idea of best looking game is wrong by presenting this interpretation of 'best'". Stop trying to tell someone that their subjective opinion is wrong! Either talk openly to understand where they are coming from in their use of 'best', or just agree to disagree.)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What's the best looking art/tech game on the horizon?

This is not a valid question for this thread. "Best Looking" is entirely subjective. To some, a pixel-art game will be 'best looking'. Rephrase to ask about what upcoming techs are being used or aim for a specific target, like "most photorealistic".

This is a Technical Discussion and questions shouldn't be asked unless they can be answered with a technical response, using data and reference to rendering technology and algorithms. It's also a console thread, so games should have a console equivalent and PC content should be related back to consoles in a meaningful way.

 

[function]

Best looking is not a technical discussion. Apart from the fact people struggle to converse with people over this subjective concept even in the right discussion, this is a Technical Discussion thread. Posts should be about technology making graphics.

(And 'best' anything cannot be proven right/wrong without a metric, so no-one can be right with the belief that "I'm right when I say your idea of best looking game is wrong by presenting this interpretation of 'best'". Stop trying to tell someone that their subjective opinion is wrong! Either talk openly to understand where they are coming from in their use of 'best', or just agree to disagree.)

I believe this is what I was trying to convey, but in a less bolded and none moderator-y kind of way!

 

[Seanspeed]

What's the best looking art/tech game on the horizon?

The days of Crysis that won't have a console version planned is long gone.
Only game I can think of is star citizen.
More likely to get small indies titles that are PC only than big graphically advanced games.

Star Citizen barely looks impressive nowadays from a raw fidelity standpoint, though its sheer 'scale' of what the game is doing is still obviously pretty ambitious.

Forspoken, Plague Tale: Requiem, Forza Motorsport, Black Myth Wukong and Hellbade Senua's Saga are all very next-gen looking to me, though none are perhaps so completely jaw dropping that they're barely believable or anything. They're about what I expected of the new generation.

Alan Wake 2 is supposed to be coming next year, so I'm looking forward to seeing that given that Remedy tend to push hard on lighting and effects. I expect Insomniac's Spiderman 2 to also be a spectacle. Star Wars Jedi Survivor's teaser hinted at something really impressive.

I think for me, the most impressive game so far I've seen is Ubisoft's Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, but what we saw was technically only 'in engine' and I'd be a bit cautious if the final game will actually look like that. But if it does, phew. So much fine detail.

Shame that DICE wont have anything new for a while. I also dont expect Naughty Dog's Factions to look any better than TLOU Part 1, given its multiplayer focus, so that might also be a shame.