davis.anthony
Veteran
Can you address the second part regarding PS5 matching a 3070 and the example I gave?
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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Flappy Pannus
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Was wondering why there was suddenly 5 new pages added. Honored to have the inventor of technical game comparison videos grace the forums!
Might as well add my experience with 'mipgate'. As others have said, this is not an RT/vram issue - at least wrt the repeatable, persistent incidents where textures are not loading. RT has nothing to do with this.
Settings all high, except:
Textures: Very High
NO RT.
Res: 4k, DLSS Dynamic
System: GTX 3060, 12 GB. I5-12400, 16GB, installed to 1.8gb/sec Intel PCIE3 NVME (have tried this installed to WD Black 3.5GB/s NVME with no change).
Police badges clearly not loading. Low-res 911 text on car (this is not due to the dof).
Also radio, as we've seen from 24GB 3090Ti systems.
Low-res Fisk logo.
Low res police signage on car.
Might as well add my experience with 'mipgate'. As others have said, this is not an RT/vram issue - at least wrt the repeatable, persistent incidents where textures are not loading. RT has nothing to do with this.
Settings all high, except:
Textures: Very High
NO RT.
Res: 4k, DLSS Dynamic
System: GTX 3060, 12 GB. I5-12400, 16GB, installed to 1.8gb/sec Intel PCIE3 NVME (have tried this installed to WD Black 3.5GB/s NVME with no change).
Police badges clearly not loading. Low-res 911 text on car (this is not due to the dof).
Also radio, as we've seen from 24GB 3090Ti systems.
Low-res Fisk logo.
Low res police signage on car.
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Flappy Pannus
Veteran
It could be an issue with how it operates with 8GB cards with this problem specifically*, in that it will cut the usage short well before it gets to that limit. As you can see from my screenshots however, the game can allocate 10+GB vram on my 3060, and actually use over 8GB - at least according to Rivatuner.
*Edit: Whoops sorry, you addressed this already. Yes it never really goes above 8GB used on my 12GB 3060, even at 4k, no DLSS, maximum RT.
Tried it just now. Setting RT with 'Very High' showed my actual used VRAM spiked to 9.5GB - then suddenly shoots back down to just under 8gb. The game does not want to allocate more than 8GB of vram on my 12GB card.
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Flappy Pannus
Veteran
This is a truly bizarre assertion to make for anyone that's used a PC for gaming for longer than a few weeks. Any game bug will manifest itself equally in effect and relative occurrence across the myriad of PC configurations out there? You can absolutely have a bug in game code that is not 100% repeatable with every run, good lord if only! Debugging would be a hell of a lot easier if that were the case.
People have posted videos and screenshots from their own and other systems with far more resources that yours which indicate your conclusions as to the true source of these problems with the game may be somewhat premature. It's fine to say "I did not experience this", but to throw up your hands and say "Well I didn't see it on my system, therefore it's not a game bug" ultimately calls into question the point of your videos in the first place. I mean, we're not in front of your PC either, but you're asking your viewers to accept your conclusions as 'factual' based on watching your videos.
No one is denying these things you witnessed on your PC happened. They're showing other sources to indicate your theories as to why these things are happening may be flawed.
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look at actual game allocation. total system vram usage can be misleading, since DWM.exe, windows desktop compositor also uses a bit of VRAM.
also, %80 rule makes it so that game will maximumly use a 9.6 GB VRAM. .6.4 GB rule is for 8 GB cards. game will never allocate more than 9.6 GB in your case. what you see with 10+gb value is total system VRAM usage, which also accounts for dwm, browser and electron apps
use task manager's dedicated gpu memory column to see what is the allocated number specifically to the game. you can alternatively use capframex for this task
so, your game also uses a maximum of 9.6 gb vram, 10.2 gb, so 600 mb difference is practically Windows VRAM tax. (see, dwm using 456 mb of vram. and other stuff).
it is of course not a specific thing to 8 gig cards. %80 rule is real. for 12 GB that becomes 9.6 GB. so yes, you seeing 8 GB usage is perfectly normal. problematic part is however game will refuse to use that empty 2 GB vram you have, even if the game were to need it.
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Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Yup, I was editing my post as you were writing this.
look at actual game allocation. total system vram usage can be misleading, since DWM.exe, windows desktop compositor also uses a bit of VRAM.
also, %80 rule makes it so that game will maximumly use a 9.6 GB VRAM. .6.4 GB rule is for 8 GB cards. game will never allocate more than 9.6 GB in your case. what you see with 10+gb value is total system VRAM usage, which also accounts for dwm, browser and electron apps
use task manager's dedicated gpu memory column to see what is the allocated number specifically to the game. you can alternatively use capframex for this task
so, your game also uses a maximum of 9.6 gb vram, 10.2 gb, so 600 mb difference is practically Windows VRAM tax. (see, dwm using 456 mb of vram. and other stuff).
it is of course not a specific thing to 8 gig cards. %80 rule is real. for 12 GB that becomes 9.6 GB. so yes, you seeing 8 GB usage is perfectly normal. problematic part is however game will refuse to use that empty 2 GB vram you have, even if the game were to need it.
I see you joined today, thanks for your contribution
davis.anthony
Veteran
These last 6 pages got me replaying the game again 
With my CPU I have a few options when it comes to playing the game
1. Max ray tracing settings and let the game run between 40-60fps with VRR to make it feel a little better
2. Cap my frame rate to 40fps and run max settings without the inconsistent frame rate ruining the feel of the game
3. Max ray tracing settings but dropping the slider from 10 to 5 and getting a locked 60fps 95% of the time
If Nixes can free 20% more CPU time in the game I reckon I could do max ray tracing at a locked 60fps on my CPU.
Oh and fixing the game so it uses more of my VRAM should help reduce system load (And some additional CPU?)
With my CPU I have a few options when it comes to playing the game
1. Max ray tracing settings and let the game run between 40-60fps with VRR to make it feel a little better
2. Cap my frame rate to 40fps and run max settings without the inconsistent frame rate ruining the feel of the game
3. Max ray tracing settings but dropping the slider from 10 to 5 and getting a locked 60fps 95% of the time
If Nixes can free 20% more CPU time in the game I reckon I could do max ray tracing at a locked 60fps on my CPU.
Oh and fixing the game so it uses more of my VRAM should help reduce system load (And some additional CPU?)
if you set your crowd / traffic density to low medium you should get a lot of headroom for the CPUThese last 6 pages got me replaying the game again
With my CPU I have a few options when it comes to playing the game
1. Max ray tracing settings and let the game run between 40-60fps with VRR to make it feel a little better
2. Cap my frame rate to 40fps and run max settings without the inconsistent frame rate ruining the feel of the game
3. Max ray tracing settings but dropping the slider from 10 to 5 and getting a locked 60fps 95% of the time
If Nixes can free 20% more CPU time in the game I reckon I could do max ray tracing at a locked 60fps on my CPU.
Oh and fixing the game so it uses more of my VRAM should help reduce system load (And some additional CPU?)
and do not let the label mislead you, streets are still full of NPCs and cars even when these two settings are set to low. ps5 also uses a mix of low/med for those two get that sweet CPU performance back
high/ultra, i don't think it is worth paying the price with crowds and traffics
I can have a almost perfect rock solid 48 with my aging 2700x
what cpu do you have?
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davis.anthony
Veteran
They're already set to low
And I have a 3600
I forgot how horrible the game looks at default, I do recommend you look at the hex mod to remove the sharpening, the game looks so much nicer without it.
They're already set to low
And I have a 3600
I forgot how horrible the game looks at default, I do recommend you look at the hex mod to remove the sharpening, the game looks so much nicer without it.
There's an inbuilt sharpening slider now isn't there?
thanks for suggestion, the video was recorded on launch where they enforced it horribly. later they made a patch and gave an option to disable it thankfullyThey're already set to low
And I have a 3600
I forgot how horrible the game looks at default, I do recommend you look at the hex mod to remove the sharpening, the game looks so much nicer without it.
davis.anthony
Veteran
Is there? Looks like I'll have to update it.
D
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This is what happens when you defund the police.
And I am now going to file a bug report to Nixxes about this - cheers!look at actual game allocation. total system vram usage can be misleading, since DWM.exe, windows desktop compositor also uses a bit of VRAM.
also, %80 rule makes it so that game will maximumly use a 9.6 GB VRAM. .6.4 GB rule is for 8 GB cards. game will never allocate more than 9.6 GB in your case. what you see with 10+gb value is total system VRAM usage, which also accounts for dwm, browser and electron apps
use task manager's dedicated gpu memory column to see what is the allocated number specifically to the game. you can alternatively use capframex for this task
so, your game also uses a maximum of 9.6 gb vram, 10.2 gb, so 600 mb difference is practically Windows VRAM tax. (see, dwm using 456 mb of vram. and other stuff).
it is of course not a specific thing to 8 gig cards. %80 rule is real. for 12 GB that becomes 9.6 GB. so yes, you seeing 8 GB usage is perfectly normal. problematic part is however game will refuse to use that empty 2 GB vram you have, even if the game were to need it.
NX Gamer was the only one comparing the unlocked framerate modes on PS5 to PC, so I think we can give him credit for that. I didn't know Spiderman Remastered had unlocked FPS modes too, so as I found out, I'm pretty disappointed Digital Foundry did not test this and compare them to PC.
However, there were multiple VRAM bottlenecks on the 2070, especially in the VRR fidelity cutscenes, so the performance comparison from NX Gamer was pretty flawed, especially because the game limits itself to 6.7 GB VRAM on 8 GB cards for some reason.
The performance difference in RT Performance Mode is likely due to how the port works and how CPU limited it is. I already knew a more powerful CPU compared to the PS5 is required for the same performance, but I didn't anticipate the performance difference being that drastic. It's really important to run your tests at unlocked framerates on PC and console alike to get a true grasp of how well hardware and software performs.
However, there were multiple VRAM bottlenecks on the 2070, especially in the VRR fidelity cutscenes, so the performance comparison from NX Gamer was pretty flawed, especially because the game limits itself to 6.7 GB VRAM on 8 GB cards for some reason.
The performance difference in RT Performance Mode is likely due to how the port works and how CPU limited it is. I already knew a more powerful CPU compared to the PS5 is required for the same performance, but I didn't anticipate the performance difference being that drastic. It's really important to run your tests at unlocked framerates on PC and console alike to get a true grasp of how well hardware and software performs.
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Indeed, this is a Beyond3D Technical Discussion. There's no value here to random internet content. Please don't post knowing it to be crap and useless - you're just generating OT noise. Only post low-grade links if accompanied with a high-grade question about a meaningful point raised.
Ports rarely are a good indicator to gauge system performance between different platforms, be it pc to ps5 or vice versa, xbox<>ps5 etc. Equal hw usually does the job.
Thanks for finally addressing this.
Better than nothing.
If Sony is serious about PC gaming, we can expect many more of these ports, so I think it's important to know what PC hardware performs equivalent to the PS5 when actually playing games.
For example, if the performance difference between equivalent hardware and PS5 remains that way in current gen only ports, then I will have to buy a new laptop soon, as my i7 9750H is on par with a i5-10400, which is similar to a 3600, and that gets outperformed dramatically by the PS5 CPU in Spiderman. So if these added layers of decompression, API etc are here to stay, then my laptop won't be able to keep up once cross gen is over, as CPU performance is hard to scale and PS5 level CPU performance might be the minimum requirement in the future. Likewise for more beefy PCs out there, it is also important to know what CPU can achieve double the performance of PS5 to get 60 FPS in a CPU limited 30 FPS current gen only game in the future.
So yes, I really need those comparisons at unlocked framerates to gauge the performance of my machine to the common denominator for true current gen only games.
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