Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[davis.anthony]

Some thoughts,

1. This guy is constantly wrong and making stuff up, why is he still posted so often here?

Because his videos still do contain some useful information (Frame rate data) for us and he has uncovered and highlighted things that DF and others miss.

DF are not perfect, NXG is not prefect, VG is not perfect....etc... so the best thing to do is to watch all of them and draw conclusions form there.

 

[see colon]

NXG is not prefect

The problem I have with his content is that if you ask him, he thinks it's perfect.

All of this technical analysis is really educated guesswork. People are going to make mistakes. But he's getting big stuff wrong almost every time. I mean, he claimed COD Vanguard was a 1080p game on PS5 and had no dropped frames in the 60hz mode, when Vanguard launched with frame hitching during autosave or level streaming sections based on every other review. He also claimed that the reconstruction was so good that you couldn't tell that it was 1080p on a 4k display. That's DLSS Performance levels of scaling there, and DLSS is the most advanced image reconstruction available in realtime games. And I will admit that DLLS performance can produce acceptable image quality in some games, it's not going to convince people anyone that it's native 4k.

I still watch his content, but I think you have to consume it a pallet sensitive enough to know what parts are probably incorrect or projection. And I don't want to be overly negative, because I don't want him to stop. I just want him to be better.

 

[PSman1700]

Theres only a couple of members here supporting him, so that says enough. This clown will never get anywhere with his 'channel', in special after obvious bias and the furious attack on Digital Foundry.

 

[davis.anthony]

The problem I have with his content is that if you ask him, he thinks it's perfect.

All of this technical analysis is really educated guesswork. People are going to make mistakes. But he's getting big stuff wrong almost every time. I mean, he claimed COD Vanguard was a 1080p game on PS5 and had no dropped frames in the 60hz mode, when Vanguard launched with frame hitching during autosave or level streaming sections based on every other review. He also claimed that the reconstruction was so good that you couldn't tell that it was 1080p on a 4k display. That's DLSS Performance levels of scaling there, and DLSS is the most advanced image reconstruction available in realtime games. And I will admit that DLLS performance can produce acceptable image quality in some games, it's not going to convince people anyone that it's native 4k.

I still watch his content, but I think you have to consume it a pallet sensitive enough to know what parts are probably incorrect or projection. And I don't want to be overly negative, because I don't want him to stop. I just want him to be better.

I don't care about the stuff he gets wrong, myself and pretty much everyone in this forum are able to watch his videos and take away the parts that are correct (Like the frame rate data) and ignore all the crap in the video.

Then you just cross check his findings and frame rate data with what other analysis videos have found.

I personally find ElAnalistaDeBits historically to be the worst in terms of mistakes.

 

[cwjs]

don't see people link to Gaf at all though here, so not sure who is 'highlighting' them.

Hey, wasn't singling you out (I actually missed that in your post, another poster on the same page mentioned them too) I just see it get brought up here multiple times a month and find it kinda weird.

Because his videos still do contain some useful information (Frame rate data) for us and he has uncovered and highlighted things that DF and others miss.

DF are not perfect, NXG is not prefect, VG is not perfect....etc... so the best thing to do is to watch all of them and draw conclusions form there.

A discerning viewer who doesn't really understand game graphics should be careful what they consume -- people in this forum still post made up stuff by nxg as if its true. More pernicious than the glaringly false things he says are things he overlooks -- I recall a recent game (plague tale maybe) where he completely overlooked a very expensive looking motion blur effect when evaluating the performance of the next gen consoles. DF makes mistakes too but they show earnest attempts to verify things with devs, to develop understandings about modern tech (particularly dictator, who I recall doing the research and making a pretty solid explainer of bvh trees and hardware rt in general) and admit their mistakes, which significantly raises the bar of their content overall.

 

[Cynicalking]

Hey, wasn't singling you out (I actually missed that in your post, another poster on the same page mentioned them too) I just see it get brought up here multiple times a month and find it kinda weird.


A discerning viewer who doesn't really understand game graphics should be careful what they consume -- people in this forum still post made up stuff by nxg as if its true. More pernicious than the glaringly false things he says are things he overlooks -- I recall a recent game (plague tale maybe) where he completely overlooked a very expensive looking motion blur effect when evaluating the performance of the next gen consoles. DF makes mistakes too but they show earnest attempts to verify things with devs, to develop understandings about modern tech (particularly dictator, who I recall doing the research and making a pretty solid explainer of bvh trees and hardware rt in general) and admit their mistakes, which significantly raises the bar of their content overall.

DF are very careful to not present things as facts unless they have confirmation from devs or are sure that they are right. Of course sometimes they make mistakes, but have no issues correcting themselves. This guy's mission seems to be to make his preferred console seems superior to everything else, blurting out his opinions and thoughts as facts.

 

[iroboto]

DF makes mistakes too but they show earnest attempts to verify things with devs, to develop understandings about modern tech (particularly dictator, who I recall doing the research and making a pretty solid explainer of bvh trees and hardware rt in general) and admit their mistakes, which significantly raises the bar of their content overall.

Definitely the largest difference between Alex and Michael is the methodology and process. Alex aims to explain his knowledge to the viewers, thus making himself vulnerable to criticism and rebuttal to the masses as people can pick apart his explanation. Michael does not provide anything behind his methodology and process, most of his claims are passing statements which either you accept freely, or you question entirely. Because of this, I don't hold them to the same ground, if you're going to analyze, you've got to be transparent with your understanding of the data, how you intend to pick it apart and why you landed on the conclusions you did. Because of this, regardless of right or wrong, by methodology alone, trusting DF is much wiser if your intent is to understand technical topics.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Personally I enjoy NXGs videos because they're like an Easter egg hunt. The game is to find and subsequently pull apart this week's latest wacky claim. He never fails to deliver.

 

[PSman1700]

Personally I enjoy NXGs videos because they're like an Easter egg hunt. The game is to find and subsequently pull apart this week's latest wacky claim. He never fails to deliver.

Also to gauge those who believe in this clown. I'd never dare to share anything from him lol.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I find it fascinating that the people who don't like the NXG video analysis, are the people drawing the most attention to his videos. Is this some stealth virus marketing approach? I can only assume so because anybody familiar with the internet shouldn't be that naive.

Well done. Really.. well done.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I find it fascinating that the people who don't like the NXG video analysis, are the people drawing the most attention to his videos. Is this some stealth virus marketing approach? I can only assume so because anybody familiar with the internet shouldn't be that naive.

Well done. Really.. well done.

It's largely a simple matter of DF having a packed schedule and are not always first out of the gate with analysis on a particular game. NXGamer would likely still get a few lols if he posted his incorrect analysis later, but for a new game/patch, especially one like Resident Evil where the art style makes objective analysis somewhat difficult, more time is going to be devoted to trying to suss out the truth when we don't have a more reliable source to fall back on. His video was the only one providing extensive commentary at the time.

As well, Mike's allergy to occasionally just saying "Whoops, my bad, may have gotten that one wrong" drags these things out a bit too. If his subsequent Twitter thread was more about expressing some level of doubt after receiving the critique, rather than the bizarre tangent he went off on (which, 4 days later, has still not elaborated one what the point was), there's not much to point and shake your head at with that. If DF doubled-down on every incorrect assumption, and also presented those assumptions as concrete evidence, there would be a lot more critical posts about them too.

Either way I don't think Beyond 3D really has much of an influence, and certainly not one in any danger of 'promoting' someone to a small audience that is highly critical.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's largely a simple matter of DF having a packed schedule and are not always first out of the gate with analysis on a particular game.

If people see something on the internet you don't agree with, drawing attention to it and getting angry about it the same time is probably the worst thing to do. I may be wrong, but I get the impression there are bunch of people who dislike his content been seem to regularly view it (clicks/watches = money), and follow him on twitter. What's the phrase, "he's living rent-free in people's heads"?.

A good gig if you can pull it off.

 

[pjbliverpool]

If people see something on the internet you don't agree with, drawing attention to it and getting angry about it the same time is probably the worst thing to do.

I'd strongly disagree with this. In fact if disinformation is being output by an otherwise seemingly reliable source, the worst thing you can do is leave it unchallenged because that's how disinformation spreads.

Sure he's getting more attention for it, and probably more hits too, but thanks to the generally well informed push back on his content I think its fairly common knowledge now, here at least but from the sounds of it elsewhere as well, that he's an unreliable source.

And I'd personally rather he gets more hits, but the disinformation he puts out is widely debunked, than he gets fewer hits but that information is allowed to spread as fact.

This principle obviously applies much more widely than just video games and is more important than ever in the current political climate IMO.

 

[davis.anthony]

Sure he's getting more attention for it, and probably more hits too, but thanks to the generally well informed push back on his content I think its fairly common knowledge now, here at least but from the sounds of it elsewhere as well, that he's an unreliable source.

And I'd personally rather he gets more hits, but the disinformation he puts out is widely debunked, than he gets fewer hits but that information is allowed to spread as fact.

This principle obviously applies much more widely than just video games and is more important than ever in the current political climate IMO.

He's massive hit with the PS fan boys on Twitter who do everything to defend him and drown out/bully everyone who challenges his work.

So no one ever sees the people who debunk him.

 

[snc]

 

[davis.anthony]

"Which one is PS5 and which is Series X?"

Does anyone want to tell him that if you 'right click -> Open in new tab' it tells you the resolution of the images so it's easy to know which one is XSX as it's the image that's slightly higher in resolution than the other

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538192154442534914

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So no one ever sees the people who debunk him.

And without dragging politics (or idiots) into this, I think the Trump-phenomenon has shown that even when somebody is popular is bat-shit crazy and there are massive amounts of credible debunking occuring, it really don't seen to matter.

The state of modern society is pretty depressing.

 

[cwjs]

And without dragging politics (or idiots) into this, I think the Trump-phenomenon has shown that even when somebody is popular is bat-shit crazy and there are massive amounts of credible debunking occuring, it really don't seen to matter.

The state of modern society is pretty depressing.

In my opinion, if somebody has 50 million followers and is like, popularly appealing (for whatever terrible reason) giving them a platform might make them stronger. If somebody is a niche technical content producer, discussing their work on a niche technical forum is probably harmless. How many views is b3d giving each video, 5?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

In my opinion, if somebody has 50 million followers and is like, popularly appealing (for whatever terrible reason) giving them a platform might make them stronger. If somebody is a niche technical content producer, discussing their work on a niche technical forum is probably harmless. How many views is b3d giving each video, 5?

I mean, Dsoup himself basically argued this position in a previous thread on NXGamer:

The 'Call of Duty Vanguard - PS5 & PC Performance Review' post on IGN's YouTube channel, it has 24k views. So utterly insignificant. And I'd wager that most people watching it are the more informed who understand the tech and less likely to be deceived by errors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree that any argument debunking his videos as a 'responsibility' or 'moral good' to combat the spread of misinformation is silly hyperbole, I don't think hardly anything on this forum can claim that, we're nerds discussing work and/or hobby.

This just seems to be quite a shift though, from where he's largely 'irrelevant' (and only tech-heads view his videos regardless and can thus can readily pick out the flaws!)...to now, where discussing this youtuber with minimal reach on an old enthusiast graphics forum that gets the amount of posts in a day that ResetEra gets in 2 minutes is now a danger to spreading said misinformation?

 

[snc]

Stats: https://bit.ly/3mJ3Yhp