Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[iroboto]

Spoiler: Ok, I couldn't help it.

Seriously, maybe having them locked/VSYNC at typical consumer TV resolutions and refresh-rates (4K/60) was more important.

lol. While there is overhead in running split CPU/GPU and memory pools. It's clear that with enough brute force there are advantages as well

120fps is new territory for consoles here. So we're see new types of data points we haven't seen before.

We have seen games go above 4K =P and DSR back down to 4K. Wish they considered that, because ti's clear both consoles are clearing 4K fairly easily.

 

[Karamazov]

120fps is good news for VR, we might get decent graphics from PSVR2

 

[snc]

If you look at PC benchmarks for a 5700XT, it's running north of 100@4K.
The consoles seem cluster around the 1440p mark for 120fps.
Its range is between 80-120 @ 4K.
80 for heavy effects though.

I don't mind that the consoles are running below a 5700XT. It's just something I've noticed that with very high frame rates, both consoles can't seem to keep up with their PC equivalent counterparts. The discussion around bandwidth was around that, because clearly both GPUs on the consoles from a TF perspective can outperform the 5700XT. If the ALU aren't being fed then... they're just sitting idle. Which I suspect is happening here for console.

but its capped 120 and capped 60, it could be on avarage much higher without limitation

 

[scently]

but its capped 120 and capped 60, it could be on avarage much higher without limitation

Indeed. Looking at the statistics of the 4k/60 fidelity mode, all three consoles did not have a single dropped or torn frame so it would have been interesting to see how much more above 60fps they can perform. Link to the statistics courtesy of VGTech: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6HCPTebvs-nDrmxpvMgi7d_oM/edit#gid=1152302152. Of course you can say this is because of the dynamic res but they barely drop below 4k.

 

[Pete]

Is there a power (and thus heat) penalty for the same pixels per second at 120fps vs 60fps due to overhead and the APU not powering down as often? Is it negligible?

 

[iroboto]

Is there a power (and thus heat) penalty for the same pixels per second at 120fps vs 60fps due to overhead and the APU not powering down as often? Is it negligible?

120fps should drive more power and heat than 4K60.
Just the nature of doubling the entire GPU and CPU and memory. Versus just doubling parts of the pipeline.

 

[Globalisateur]

120fps should drive more power and heat than 4K60.
Just the nature of doubling the entire GPU and CPU and memory. Versus just doubling parts of the pipeline.

Yes for CPU and GPU but 1440p 120fps could be less demanding on ram bandwidth than 2160p 60fps. Usually the higher resolutions are first bottlenecked by available bandwidth. I mean how many times did I read this when we were comparing Pro vs XBX?

 

[iroboto]

Yes for CPU and GPU but 1440p 120fps could be less demanding on ram bandwidth than 2160p 60fps. Usually the higher resolutions are first bottlenecked by available bandwidth. I mean how many times did I read this when we were comparing Pro vs XBX?

The mid gen refreshes moved from 1080p to 4K. That's a 4x pixel output.
You move 30fps to 120fps, that's 4X total output. Then you double that resolution. You're at 8x.
Consoles last generation still also suffered from disproportionate bandwidth reduction as well and we didn't double our memory bandwidth from mid-gen refreshes.

tldr; 4Pro didn't have enough over PS4.
217.6 GB/s vs 176 GB/s vs 326 GB/s for X1X.

There wasn't enough on 4Pro to double frame rate or increase resolution much

 

[Karamazov]

So about those atmospherics cited in the XsX version tweet, what are they ? And are they in the PS5 version too ? (and XsS)

 

[mr magoo]

So about those atmospherics cited in the XsX version tweet, what are they ? And are they in the PS5 version too ? (and XsS)

i think we need to wait for DF analyse, so much confusion... i wouldnt be suprised if both version have it/ dont have it/ ps5 have it and xsx dont/ xsx have it and ps5 dont .... mess

 

[mr magoo]

https://healthsafetips.com/2021/03/...-optimized-tony-hawks-professional-skater-12/

"and to improve the game’s visuals through better quality shadows and atmospherics (bloom, lens flare, reflections). We also increased the texture quality used on the in-game skaters."

 

[Globalisateur]

So this is interesting:

Apparently the PS5 does render at 1440p in 120hz mode. According to this the consoles have variable resolutions in both modes and the PS5 has a higher low. Weirdly inconsistent with the press released resolutions.

Xbox Series X Fidelity Mode: 3264x1836 to 3840x2160
Xbox Series X 120hz Mode: 1920x1080 to 2560x1440

PS5 Fidelity Mode: 3552x1998 to 3840x2160
PS5 120hz Mode: 2112x1188 to 2560x1440

So I wanted to test my theory about a more aggressive DRS on XSX in the high performance mode and it turned out I was right.

The minimum resolutions found by VGTech (~1080p on XSX and ~1188p on PS5, about 20% higher res) are found in a scene where the PS5 is dropping the lowest (113fps) while XSX stays at 120fps.

PS5, using the pic on the left, (I found around 1181p):

XSX, using the pic on the left, (I found exactly 1080p):

 

[iroboto]

So I wanted to test my theory about a more aggressive DRS on XSX in the high performance mode and it turned out I was right.

The minimum resolutions found by VGTech (~1080p on XSX and ~1188p on PS5, about 20% higher res) are found in a scene where the PS5 is dropping the lowest (113fps) while XSX stays at 120fps.

PS5, using the pic on the left, (I found around 1181p):

XSX, using the pic on the left, (I found exactly 1080p):

I mean, I'm happy you're investigating in this manner. But that's DSR your counting there. The video at 120fps is recorded at 1080p only. You're going to need to leave some room there for error margin

 

[mr magoo]

I wonder if this also true for scenes at night. When you move camera behind player (DF vid)

 

[Globalisateur]

I mean, I'm happy you're investigating in this manner. But that's DSR your counting there. The video at 120fps is recorded at 1080p only. You're going to need to leave some room there for error margin

Sure but you can only measure using the data you have, this is how comparisons can be done. We don't know how much headroom the XSX has, but what we can state is in that scene (where the lowest framerate is recorded on PS5) the PS5 GPU is pushing around 13% more pixels.

 

[Shortbread]

Mortal Shell Enhanced Edition frame rate test showing the framerate/fps on PS5 after patch 1.000.004.

The only resolution found on PS5 on version 1.000.004 was 3200x1800.

The UI is rendered at 3840x2160.

Stats: https://bit.ly/2R5up4f
Frames Pixel Counted: https://bit.ly/2OgzYvw

Note: It seems the PS5 addition added native 1800p support, not the DRR 1800p as seen in XBSX (3200x1800 - 2560x1440). And framerate suffers because of the lack of DRR support.

Prior Video and Information:

The only resolution found on PS5 was 2560x1440.

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 2304x1296 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 2080x1170. Native resolution pixel counts at 2080x1170 seem to be common on Xbox Series S. On Xbox Series S a form of temporal reconstruction is used to increase the resolution up to 3200x1800. Xbox

Series X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3200x1800 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 2560x1440. Native resolution pixel counts at or near 3200x1800 seem to be common on Xbox Series X. On Xbox Series X a form of temporal reconstruction is used to increase the resolution up to 3200x1800 when rendering natively below this resolution.

All three consoles render the UI at 3840x2160.

Texture streaming is faster on PS5 than Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S http://bit.ly/3rzcVut Note that these screenshots are right after loading and these are not representative of how the game generally looks on the Xbox consoles.

Stats: http://bit.ly/30wJM78
Frames Pixel Counted: http://bit.ly/3sV2VvQ

Image lifted from chandoog at Era.

Interesting that the PS5 doesn't exhibit any torn frames even after the update.

 

[Proelite]

Note: It seems the PS5 addition added native 1800p support, not the DRR 1800p as seen in XBSX (3200x1800 - 2560x1440). And framerate suffers because of the lack of DRR support.

Prior Video and Information:

Image lifted from chandoog at Era.

Interesting that the PS5 doesn't exhibit any torn frames even after the update.

A patch to make things worse...

 

[Shortbread]

Developer at Playstack replied

It shouldn't be making the frame rate dip like this. Annoyed this wasn't flagged by QA. Back to the drawing board...

 

[snc]

Bad idea to use higher resolution than xsx (which was dynamic 1440-1800p), or maybe they didn't implement dynamic res for ps5 version ? strange

 

[Shortbread]

Bad idea to use higher resolution than xsx (which was dynamic 1440-1800p), or maybe they didn't implement dynamic res for ps5 version ? strange

They didn't (native 1800p) and read the post above.