Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Deleted member 11852]

That wouldn't explain the difference. PS4 version has about the same size as XB1 and XSX. I think they use oodle textures on PS5 and maybe deduplication of data (without Kraken compression which is possible as oodle textures are possible on base PS4).

Yeah, I realised I had mis-read the post and I mis-remembered the post - apart from that it was golden! I am curious if the PS5's decompression hardware is accessible outside of the I/O. Logically it should be accessible. Equally logically, why would it need to be.

 

[Shortbread]

Schlieren photography is useful for visualizing air patterns and movement when the air density has a gradient -- or a change in density -- surrounding a product. This isn't a perfect testing method and doesn't tell us thermal performance (we use thermocouples for that, and the Series X thermals will be uploaded in a few days), but it does tell us how the air exits the consoles, how obstructed it might be, and what directions it takes. This also allows us to the opportunity to closer analyze the console's internal heatsink design: Even though we can't see the heatsink with this imaging, we can see how the air exits the device and at what angle, and speed, and all of these factors allow us to better understand the finstack impedance and angles. The Sony PlayStation 5 already had thermal testing in one of our previous pieces, with the Xbox Series X thermals coming up soon.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Xbox Series X & PlayStation 5 Airflow
03:12 - Setting Up for Schlieren Imaging
05:24 - Xbox Airflow Patterns
10:36 - Xbox Flow Patterns (Continued)
11:42 - Xbox Intake Flow Patterns
14:50 - Xbox Series X Airflow Patterns: Side Vent
17:21 - Xbox Series X Thermals - Power Off
19:55 - PlayStation 5 Airflow Patterns
23:33 - PlayStation 5 - Side Orientation
24:55 - Conclusion

 

[goonergaz]

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Xbox Series X & PlayStation 5 Airflow
03:12 - Setting Up for Schlieren Imaging
05:24 - Xbox Airflow Patterns
10:36 - Xbox Flow Patterns (Continued)
11:42 - Xbox Intake Flow Patterns
14:50 - Xbox Series X Airflow Patterns: Side Vent
17:21 - Xbox Series X Thermals - Power Off
19:55 - PlayStation 5 Airflow Patterns
23:33 - PlayStation 5 - Side Orientation
24:55 - Conclusion

Good video and very interesting, however for someone so clever to suggest not putting the XSX 'on it's side where the holes are because you'll block the vents' I had to wonder (seeing as if you were using the console it would be impossible to block the vents)! Also, that vent on the back of the XSX I'm pretty certain is a kind of a safety vent for if some kid/mum puts something (or something maybe falls onto) the top of the XSX...it may help with acoustics but it is 100% not for helping get the back of! lol

 

[Shortbread]

 

[Pete]

Regarding I/O discussions and control - I think it is good to look at the last gen on disc size across the last gen systems before assuming that this Ultimate edition is doing something radically different or using PS5 specific compression.
Listing on Store for base Xbox One (not ultimate edition): 34.77GB
Listing on PSStore for base PS4 (not ultimate edition): 24.4 GB

I ... can’t believe Sony actually updates their store info with the latest install size. Let’s see, Gran Turismo Sport and Days Gone would be good test cases for very different original vs updated file sizes and ... yup, GTS lists 43GB (60GB on the case) for what is now a ~100GB install (and you have to update it if you want to, you know, Sport). Days Gone lists 39GB (46GB on the case) for what is now a ... huh, 38GB install. Respect.

Control’s PS4 case says 40GB minimum. PSN says 24.46GB for the original and 24.45GB for the Ultimate Edition, neither of which explains why Control takes up 34.33GB on my PS4 Pro. (It looks like the two expansions were added onto my base install courtesy of the Ultimate Edition being free on PS+.)

In conclusion, PlayStation may be for the gamers, but their store is for the birds.

 

[Allandor]

I ... can’t believe Sony actually updates their store info with the latest install size. Let’s see, Gran Turismo Sport and Days Gone would be good test cases for very different original vs updated file sizes and ... yup, GTS lists 43GB (60GB on the case) for what is now a ~100GB install (and you have to update it if you want to, you know, Sport). Days Gone lists 39GB (46GB on the case) for what is now a ... huh, 38GB install. Respect.

Control’s PS4 case says 40GB minimum. PSN says 24.46GB for the original and 24.45GB for the Ultimate Edition, neither of which explains why Control takes up 34.33GB on my PS4 Pro. (It looks like the two expansions were added onto my base install courtesy of the Ultimate Edition being free on PS+.)

In conclusion, PlayStation may be for the gamers, but their store is for the birds.

Btw, can somebody check how much space control really takes from the ssd?
We had reports here (in this forum), that if you install a game, the info screen shows x GB but after installing a game the ssd was filled with more than expected as the system part also increased. I'm just curious if this is still the case.

 

[senis_kenis]

Btw, can somebody check how much space control really takes from the ssd?
We had reports here (in this forum), that if you install a game, the info screen shows x GB but after installing a game the ssd was filled with more than expected as the system part also increased. I'm just curious if this is still the case.

25.79 GB Ultimate edition.

 

[Allandor]

25.79 GB Ultimate edition.

Thx.
So, that could mean they might fixed a bug, that more space on the SSD was allocated in the system part.

 

[Shortbread]

This benchmark of the Xbox Series X includes a partial tear-down to help show the construction of the cooler. We also referenced a clip from TronicsFix (linked below) to talk about the vapor chamber design and how vapor chambers are constructed. The vapor chamber's pillars are obvious in the tear-down footage, so we show some factory floor footage to show how vapor chambers (like those found in the Xbox Series X) are made. We left our heatsink attached to the PCB, as we didn't want to disturb the thermal paste; however, since most of what we're measuring is flip-chip BGA packaging, the silicon is actually closer to the reverse side of the PCB than to the top of the case for MOSFET and memory modules. This is useful and convenient for measuring thermals with minimal disturbance to the cooler assembly. Disassembly is fairly easy and the Xbox mostly resembles a small form factor PC (e.g. mini-ITX / SFF box), except packed into an extremely dense, small assembly of parts. That makes for interesting thermal testing and analysis.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Xbox Series X Thermal Testing
01:23 - Testing Methodology Recap
02:42 - Not 100% Comparable to PlayStation 5 Thermals
07:04 - Xbox Series X SOC Thermal Benchmarks at Steady State
09:24 - Memory Thermals
10:32 - MOSFET (VRM) Thermals
11:03 - Proving Our Work
11:23 - Power vs. Thermal Measurements
12:50 - Power Saving Recommendations
13:21 - Looking Inside the Chassis (Partial Tear-Down)
19:38 - Xbox Series X Power Consumption Benchmarks
20:45 - Noise Testing of Xbox Series X
22:05 - Conclusion of Xbox Series X Thermals

 

[Tabris]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1358537113029910534

 

[Nesh]

It says unoptimized will benefit more. So if a game engine is optimized, what is the result?

 

[Karamazov]

a game engine optimized for the PS5 architecture will benefit the PS5 more.
a game engine optimized for the XsX architecture will benefit the XsX more.

Third party devs may choose a middle ground, or favorise one or another arch depending of their needs.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

It says unoptimized will benefit more. So if a game engine is optimized, what is the result?

He says some unoptimised engines will benefit more from wider and slower, some from narrower and faster.

Much like, at the start of last generation, some engines weren't designed to make use of multi core CPU's, so they would have benefited more from a single 10GHz CPU core than they did from the low frequency, high core count CPU's.

Naughty Dog, however, already had an excellent multi thread utilisation system from The Last of Us (probably from Uncharted too, but I only remember seeing videos from TLoU,) so they were able to hit the ground running.

Optimised titles are going to be interesting to see, but also inherently difficult to compare as we'll never get the same game equally optimised for each system.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1358537113029910534

What the game is trying to do and how it's trying to do it is also a sizeable factor on deliverable performance. An engine may well favour one GPU (AMD or Nvidia) or slower/wider or faster/narrow architectures but fundamentally if what you're doing doesn't also fit you will have other hurdles to overcome.

 

[Shortbread]

Outriders PS5 and Xbox Series X|S frame rate test showing the games framerate/fps in the demo version of the game.

The versions tested were 1.003.000 on PS5 and 2.3.2102.230 on Xbox Series X|S. Note that these version numbers correspond to 0.1.0.0 in-game.

Timestamps
00:00 - Xbox Series X
06:01 - Xbox Series S
12:01 - PS5

Xbox Series X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3456x1944 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 2261x1272. On Xbox Series X a form of temporal reconstruction is used to increase the resolution up to 3840x2160.

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 2304x1296 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 1536x864. On Xbox Series S a form of temporal reconstruction is used to increase the resolution up to 3840x2160.

PS5 uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3008x1692 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 2112x1188. On PS5 a form of temporal reconstruction is used to increase the resolution up to 3840x2160.

The native rendering resolution changes often on PS5 and Xbox Series X. The native rendering resolution on Xbox Series S seems to usually be below 1920x1080.

PS5 and Xbox Series X have some graphical improvements compared to the Xbox Series S such as extra trees and foliage, some higher quality textures and an improved draw distance for some shadows. PS5 has improved texture filtering compared to Xbox Series X http://bit.ly/3b0UCbw

Stats: http://bit.ly/37TWDEq
Frames Pixel Counted: http://bit.ly/3aXYNFd

* XBSX maintains a slightly higher dynamic resolution on both ends of the spectrum (upper/lower bound), while the PS5 has better anisotropic filtering and near locked 60fps.
* Since this is a demo, hopefully, AF will improve on the XBSX, and maybe a lower dynamic resolution for a more solid 60fps experience.
* XBSS is well, XBSS...
* Just as an FYI, Outriders runs on the Unreal 4 Engine.

 

[function]

Does indeed look like they need to be a little more aggressive with the resolution drops on XSX. Looking at the numbers, maybe something like 10%?

Interestingly, that might bring the 15 ~ 32 % resolution increase of the XSX back down into far more usual territory of something very roughly like 4 ~ 19 % (using a very basic guestimation). Maybe less than that.

Right now, without a VRR display (which I don't currently have) I'd probably rather play the PS5 version. Resolution is nice and all that but smoothness is just lovely.

 

[Deto]

Regarding I/O discussions and control - I think it is good to look at the last gen on disc size across the last gen systems before assuming that this Ultimate edition is doing something radically different or using PS5 specific compression.
Listing on Store for base Xbox One (not ultimate edition): 34.77GB
Listing on PSStore for base PS4 (not ultimate edition): 24.4 GB

 

[Shortbread]

They're definitely using a better compression scheme or at the very least, some 12.6GB of (redundant?) assets weren't needed anymore.

 

[Karamazov]

Ps5 has better AF, but i read somewhere XsX had better quality shadows, is that confirmed ?

 

[Globalisateur]

They're definitely using a better compression scheme or at the very least, some 12.6GB of (redundant?) assets weren't needed anymore.

Probably both. I think it's oodle textures + getting rid of redundant assets. That way they can still load the game the PC / Xbox way (with the CPU).