snc
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cb can be hit (horizon, shadow of tomb raider, ghost of tsushima, resident village) or miss (rdr2, avangers)
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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Flappy Pannus
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Flappy Pannus
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Yeah there are a bunch of improvements to the PC version that don't really affect performance (which is a detriment as well in some cases as the game is not that scalable so you can't really claw much performance in dialing back settings too).
The lack of aniso and the way the terrain basically has almost like a bilinear-filtering line that progresses 5 ft in front you while the ground distorts on the PS version can be distracting, and around Meridian and some other areas, Aloy on the PS basically clips through all that plant geometry on the floor, while on the PC every object has proper physics reaction to her body. Even in the one type of foliage that does 'interact' with Aloy on the PS - the red-tipped grass - it's not really physics interaction per-se, it just animates in a general way near Aloy, whereas on the PC it moves and parts around Aloy properly.
NXGamer's focus I think was to just do a 1:1 parallel between the PC and console settings to determine how well the PS5 patch holds up in terms of optimization - yes the PC version can indeed look better, but this patch isn't fully taking advantage of the PS5 hardware either. If you've got a 3080 and a good CPU and can play in 4k then the PC version, even with its flaws is probably the better experience, albeit I'm not sure even that system could maintain the absolute lock on 60fps the PS5 version has, it's basically flawless. It could use some enhancements, perhaps a proper 'remastered' version may hit as a pack-in with Forbidden West next year.
Fortunately VRR makes this largely irrelevant. Assuming we're talking minor occasional dips into the 50's that is, so his conclusion that you simply can't get an equal experience to the PS5 on any PC seems unwarranted at best (although not unexpected). But yeah it's widely acknowledged that this game doesn't perform as well as it should on the PC, likely due to it's original design constraints. Later games built on the same engine with the PC in mind from the start perform much better.
Just wanted to second this, and add my own thoughts.
IIRC, in his Control comparison for the RT update on PS5 and XSX, he stated that the loading stutters on XSX were because it lacked PS5 IO. Clearly this was absolute nonsense, and Remedy duly patched the XSX hardware to have the PS5 IO hardware block.
Just a few days ago he retweeted the new hi-res PS5 die shots, and said that it might have Zen 3 unified cache and that he would "do some digging", again IIRC (and I think I do). That's with super awesome high res images of two entirely separate quad core CCXs with their own (Zen 2 style) L3 caches.
His comparison videos are good, and I'm certainly not suggesting he doesn't add a lot to the conversation and take pride in his work, but when he tells you why the hardware is responsible for the performance you're seeing, take it with a pinch of salt. He really needs to back off from attributing what's quite possibly software related to "it's console (x) sauce" or "platform deficiency
".I think he'd benefit from a newer CPU with better single thread performance. Zen 1 / Zen+ was a little weak in thread in single thread (though a big advance over loldozer) and it didn't clock very high. Plus CPU and mobo drivers probably didn't get the support of Intel and later AMD devices due to the relatively low user base. Zen 1 and Nvidia is possibly not the greatest combination. He might not be able to afford it though, so I'm not going to be too critical - I'm broke as hell and still rocking a 4790K!
More NXG comparisons, absolutely, but ease off on the certainty with "why" a bit...
Flappy Pannus
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I mean if we say "well there's VRR" in response to every platform comparison video where one system is more stable, that can largely eliminate a good chunk of the reasoning for checking out these videos full-stop.
It's still worthwhile to point out that discrepancy imo though. I have a VRR monitor but not a VRR TV which is where I play 99% of my games on (PC or console), and especially with TV owners there's still a distinct minority that have VRR, even among newer gen console owners I suspect - it's worth it to mention one system that can hold a 60fps better. Sure I look forward to the day when I get a VRR TV and a 3080 is not $1500, hell of an expense to potentially get a better experience at some point I guess but at least it's there when/if that day comes.Regardless, these stutters that occur on the PC version are pretty egregious when they occur - on my system at least. I noticed them too when testing on my VRR monitor (and of course my TV which doesn't have it). "Stutter" is an all-encompassing term that can have a wide variety of culprits, but when I encounter them on the PC and refer to them as such, they're usually far in excess of 16.6ms - VRR can deal with those fine, but not the ones where it's 80+ ms, or far more in several cases. As mentioned better CPU's/GPU's could largely alleviate this (?), but even YouTube videos I've seen on 3080's at 4k show some drops below 60, I think in a platform comparison video it's valid to mention which version holds that line more consistently.
snc
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not to mention problem with vrr and oled tv's that are more calibrated to 120hz though majority of games targets 60fps and there is gamma shift using vrr (not my experience yet will check it next month when buy xsx and probably later when ps5 vrr patch arrive)I mean if we say "well there's VRR" in response to every platform comparison video where one system is more stable, that can largely eliminate a good chunk of the reasoning for checking out these videos full-stop.
Regardless, these stutters that occur on the PC version are pretty egregious when they occur - on my system at least. I noticed them too when testing on my VRR monitor (and of course my TV which doesn't have it). "Stutter" is an all-encompassing term that can have a wide variety of culprits, but when I encounter them on the PC and refer to them as such, they're usually far in excess of 16.6ms - VRR can deal with those fine, but not the ones where it's 80+ ms, or far more in several cases. As mentioned better CPU's/GPU's could largely alleviate this (?), but even YouTube videos I've seen on 3080's at 4k show some drops below 60, I think in a platform comparison video it's valid to mention which version holds that line more consistently.
I mean if we say "well there's VRR" in response to every platform comparison video where one system is more stable, that can largely eliminate a good chunk of the reasoning for checking out these videos full-stop.
Regardless, these stutters that occur on the PC version are pretty egregious when they occur - on my system at least. I noticed them too when testing on my VRR monitor (and of course my TV which doesn't have it). "Stutter" is an all-encompassing term that can have a wide variety of culprits, but when I encounter them on the PC and refer to them as such, they're usually far in excess of 16.6ms - VRR can deal with those fine, but not the ones where it's 80+ ms, or far more in several cases. As mentioned better CPU's/GPU's could largely alleviate this (?), but even YouTube videos I've seen on 3080's at 4k show some drops below 60, I think in a platform comparison video it's valid to mention which version holds that line more consistently.
Agreed its absolutely valid to look at this from a raw performance perspective, and for those without VRR displays it can have a big performance impact too thanks to the stutter induced by dropping from 60 to 30 fps for even a marginally missed 16ms window. Its this stutter that VRR can eliminate, but you could also deal with it via adaptive vsync and just putting up with a little tearing now and then.
But in response to the specific claim that you can't match the PS5 experience on any PC hardware due to all hardware occasionally dipping below 60fps I think its definitely valid to consider VRR. As you say it also depends on whats causing those drops. If its just a normal performance deficit result in a slightly missed 16ms window, then VRR will solve this, but if its some engine flaw that happens regardless of performance (say a 3080 still dipping at 720p) then obvious VRR won't help. I'd thought one of the recent big patches resolved this "hitching" issue though?
The question of an equivalent experience probably shouldn't be limited to maximum "Ultimate" settings at 4k but rather to medium (PS4 pro with some additional foliage interactivity) at something Iike 1900p. Can any GPU maintain a flawless 60fps at those settings? That I don't know.
NXG is a very big Playstation fan. It was more obvious in his earlier days, but it still clearly shows nowadays if you're paying attention. Not saying that to dismiss him entirely, he's intelligent and knowledgeable enough in most respects, but he definitely has a strong tendency to lean a certain way when convenient.Just wanted to second this, and add my own thoughts.
IIRC, in his Control comparison for the RT update on PS5 and XSX, he stated that the loading stutters on XSX were because it lacked PS5 IO. Clearly this was absolute nonsense, and Remedy duly patched the XSX hardware to have the PS5 IO hardware block.
Just a few days ago he retweeted the new hi-res PS5 die shots, and said that it might have Zen 3 unified cache and that he would "do some digging", again IIRC (and I think I do). That's with super awesome high res images of two entirely separate quad core CCXs with their own (Zen 2 style) L3 caches.
His comparison videos are good, and I'm certainly not suggesting he doesn't add a lot to the conversation and take pride in his work, but when he tells you why the hardware is responsible for the performance you're seeing, take it with a pinch of salt. He really needs to back off from attributing what's quite possibly software related to "it's console (x) sauce" or "platform deficiency
I think he'd benefit from a newer CPU with better single thread performance. Zen 1 / Zen+ was a little weak in thread in single thread (though a big advance over loldozer) and it didn't clock very high. Plus CPU and mobo drivers probably didn't get the support of Intel and later AMD devices due to the relatively low user base. Zen 1 and Nvidia is possibly not the greatest combination. He might not be able to afford it though, so I'm not going to be too critical - I'm broke as hell and still rocking a 4790K!
More NXG comparisons, absolutely, but ease off on the certainty with "why" a bit...
I would be rather careful to use platform bias to dismiss anyone. As far as I can tell when doing comparisons and technical analysis, he sticks to the facts, and so should we. If you think he gets something factually wrong, discuss that and bring evidence. The rest is for another place, if you really need it.
I know he tests on his personal system, but why must he artificially make the PC worse than it can be?
Ryzen 2700x is really limited in single-thread performance (and worse than the PS5 CPU) and even holds back the RTX 2070. Also (and he did that in multiple videos) why does he install the game for such a video on a HDD instead of a simple SSD. This makes streaming issues etc. much better and a load-time test against a pc does not make sense if the game is installed on an HDD. Even a cheap SATA SSD makes loading times much, much shorter.
But good that this PS5 patch is out but had hoped that they do a bit more.
btw, is it now official (he mentions this in the video) that the PS5 can only access so much memory as the PS4 Pro in BC mode if it got a PS5 awareness-patch? I always assumed that (because of dynamic resolution limitations) but so far I have not found any source for that.
Indeed. The recent Digital Foundry video shows that a high end CPU with a modest PCIe 3.0 NVMe drive will halve the PS5's load times and yet rather than make reference to this in the "which system gives the best experience" commentary despite touting the benefits of faster loading on many previous occasions, this advantage goes completely ignored in favour of comparing to a PC with a spinning HDD and talking about how fast the PS5 loads.
snc
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Only source I know is Richard talking about it in one of df direct weekly.
Flappy Pannus
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I agree that just generic "He's a PS fan" doesn't add anything (I mean technically by how much playtime I have on my PS5 vs. my PC these days I 'favour' the PS now too) - there's generally enough concrete material in this videos to get some benefit from his analysis.
The critique levied here that spawned this tangent though is that he doesn't always 'stick to the facts' - his tendency to present his hypotheses as facts is literally the point of contention. Like "you need PCI 4.0 for this game as it is entirely bottlenecked by 3.0 speed" has absolutely no supporting evidence provided for it, and evidence to the contrary (such as CPU bottlenecks that could have been investigated during these stutter incidents) are ignored. I don't care what platform he prefers, but if you make your videos primarily about comparing two platforms and interject the data with your own pet theories on why the differences may manifest, you need to frame them as such - guesstimates - rather than concrete data.
IMO its a small dev studio and i wouldnt overthink results wich are all over the place tbh, they are not well know by leveraging super optimised titles. They tried with resources and budget they had and neither version is perfect. Anyway thats how I see it.
snc
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that's true tough some here says its aaa studio and should crate new silent hill ;d
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