Cure yourself from homosexuality!

[Legion]

As I said. Believe what you will.

No, i will believe what the evidence indicates, thank you very much.

 

[Natoma]

And of course here's the part where I say "And I believe the evidence indicates the contrary. what's your 'evidence'" and you say "blah blah blah blah blah" and I respond "blah blah blah blah blah" and this goes on for another 30 pages of ever lengthening posts. Sorry. I don't have the patience or stamina for this. However, if you want to go on with this tit-for-tat, feel free to make-believe that I'm responding to you in the future. I've posted enough here for you to have a general idea of how I'd post anyway.

Of course, if that's what gets you off that is.

 

[John Reynolds]

Male homosexual couples can artificially inseminate a surrogate ya know. Our wee wees works just fine.

I know that. I was just throwing examples out, not trying to state that adoption was the only option available for gay men.

 

[Legion]

And of course here's the part where I say "And I believe the evidence indicates the contrary. what's your 'evidence'" and you say "blah blah blah blah blah" and I respond "blah blah blah blah blah" and this goes on for another 30 pages of ever lengthening posts. Sorry. I don't have the patience or stamina for this. However, if you want to go on with this tit-for-tat, feel free to make-believe that I'm responding to you in the future. I've posted enough here for you to have a general idea of how I'd post anyway.

Of course, if that's what gets you off that is.

The only make believe here is your position the evidence indicates otherwise. Sure, you can rehash your same, completely unsupported arguments, which to this day you haven't provided a single psychological or biological test/research that has indicated your presumption. I am perfectly ok with that.

So why don't you just say what is at the heart of your argument: You believe i simply do not understand, you assert your knowledge of psychology and biology is supperior to mine ergo you are correct regardless of the evidence. I think that pretty much sums up the conclusion to every debate we've had on the matter.

 

[Natoma]

As I said before Legion. Blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway this small tit-for-tat was sorta fun, if not a waste of time. I'll be getting off this closed loop now. Feel free to continue by all means.

I know that. I was just throwing examples out, not trying to state that adoption was the only option available for gay men.

I know. Just bustin yer balls.

 

[Legion]

<sigh>

You can brainwash anyone into believing they are damn near anything with enough time and effort, the question should be about if it is RIGHT to change someone against their will.

I've not met or encountered all that many homosexuals who wanted to be cured, or even that there was something wrong with them in the first place.

Interesting, you suggest they can be brainwashed against their genetic predisposition. Odd.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Interesting, you suggest they can be brainwashed against their genetic predisposition. Odd.

I didn't say anything about genetic predisposition, please don't put words in my mouth son.

 

[PeterAce]

I get the feeling that on this message board the more socially conservative members get a far to involved with 'why are people gay' and seem to miss that - 'It doesn't really matter'.

Millions of gay people are pefectly happy just they way they are. I am, and I've been happily in Love with my partner/boyfriend for almost five years now.

I hope other gay people can find love and happyness together (especially the ones who are surounded by uneducated and bigoted familys because it will be harder).

The only reason I've ever found gay men and women that didn't want to be gay was because of societal pressures. Nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly.

 

[epicstruggle]

epic and legion

You miss the point.

Not sure if your still particitating in this thread or not. But how did i miss the point. All I was saying is that your paragraph i quote, was junk. Then I provided a list of other groups of people who could say the same thing you did in said paragraph. I also pointed out that other groups have had it much worse than gay people.

So exactly where did i miss the point. Gay people have it alot easier than many others. You cannot tell a gay person apart from a straight person. BUT you can tell the difference between a black and white guy, a muslim women(wearing her traditional garb) and an atheist women, a ugly person and good looking person.

You may not like the facts but other groups of people have had it worse.

later,
epic

 

[Natoma]

You haven't met some of the more queeny gay people then.

Nor people that get killed for simply reaching out and trying to connect with another human being. See Matthew Shepard for one, or the 15yr old girl in New Jersey who was killed after two grown men drove up to her, tried to hit on her, she refused and said she was lesbian. And countless others who don't get press but are discriminated against or killed for simply being gay.

p.s.: There are some blacks who are light skinned enough to pass for white, and in fact did so. Why? Because they didn't want to deal with society's ignorance and hatred. Hell I'm a "straight acting" gay man, and I used that to my advantage for years to deflect any "He's gay" accusations because I wasn't secure in my own skin. But as I said earlier, this isn't the point of what I was writing.

 

[Vince]

But as to the topic at hand, I'll keep this short and to the point. Anyone who would willingly put up with the bullshit, and in some cases threats to their very lives, that gay men and women have to put up with day in and day out from the time we realize our sexuality in our early youth would have to be certifiable, or at least gets off when receiving punishment.

The lives of gay men and women would be at least 10x easier overall if we were straight. Of course, we're not the problem. It's people like Vince who have no issue making homosexuality comparisons to alcoholism or drug abuse, or Joe, who's timeless comparisons between homosexuality and beastiality live on in eternal infamous stupidity, that are the problem.

And of course those that go out and decide to beat the living crap out of someone because they're gay, or evict someone because they're gay, or fire someone because they're gay, or expel qualified service members from the armed forces because they're gay, or kill someone because they're gay, or make snide comments because they're gay, or kick them out of their homes because they're gay, or deny them custody of their own children because they're gay, or deny them children all together because they're gay, etc etc etc, are the problem as well.

What the hell? I already predicted that this line of argument would be used when I stated:

The problem with these topics are people like you who look at it as nothing but a totally superficial, generally political, opinion without any actual concept of the dynamics behind it.

Seriously, I don't want to hear your view of it. It's utterly irrelevant to the root cause, moreover, societal reflections of the practice are just as irrelevant. Basically, Go cry me a river... I don't care. Sorry.

What you still haven't answered - neither has the DigitalWanderer who can only correct my spelling error and think that in some way it balances out the fact that his argument and knowledge is hollow - is how Homosexuality is uniquely human - meaning it's genetic and not an environmental cause, which is a mistake. It's obviously not intrinsically of genetic origin; homosexuality just doesn't make sence on any game theoric view of evolutionary strategies. And with upwards of 5-10% of the population believed to be gay, it can't be a random mutation as the error-correction rate of DNA is amazing and leads to an error rate of 1 in a billion.

So, what’s left is that its causation primarily rests with an environmental factor - be that early hormonal, neurotransmitter or other such facts which caused specific areas of your body to be 'enhanced' in growth and precedence, many of such areas are generally going to see prominence in females.

You talk about "We", there is no "we" with homosexuals - We're all humans... period. Humans which are diploid in nature and whose overriding goal is the passing of information via DNA. This inherently means that you need a man and a woman, any optimal survival strategy will have heterosexual contact at the maximum, unless homosexuality is some such mechanism to keep genes from entering the pool - but I'm not saying that. Homosexuality is a faulty strategy, it's a biological fuck up in the same vein as OCD in which specific influences cause an over emphasis on the bias lent to certain neurological and chemical entities in the body.

And for heavens sake, stop this contrived monologue about how you feel this way and it's such a true feeling and blah, blah. Alcoholics, OCD, and up the chain to Pedophiles say the same things - not surprising as they all have neural and chemical repositories which are over/under pronounced and they (their materialistic brain) believes it as true because their materialist brain is where the problem is. ... and guess what, it doesn't make what they're saying any less wrong.

 

[Natoma]

As I said Vince. It's people like you who have got the problem here.

 

[Vince]

As I said Vince. It's people like you who have got the problem here.

What's the problem? I don't give a shit what society and politically correct commentators and special interests say, but instead I took the time to learn the fundamentals and think for myself?

The shame...

Well, maybe one day you'll actually respond to the facts in a genuine fashion instead of this BS, politically charged, emotionally based line of argument which is horrific from any objective view point of the actual phenomenon of homosexuality. Lets follow the leader who says Homosexuality is inherently human and not a problem with environmental causes – because he knows… oh yes. Proof? Who needs that when you have FUD and emotions.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Vince, homosexuality isn't i nherently human...there are animal fags too.

I really don't see how you can view it as some form of disease or aberration, it's a natural thang.....DEAL WITH IT!

 

[John Reynolds]

You may not like the facts but other groups of people have had it worse.

Trying to determine who has it the worst is a rather fruitless, pointless endeavor. IMO. But in all honesty I would hate being a black gay man in this country, but of course I would cure that situation if I were born into it by watching countless reruns of Dukes of Hazard.

 

[John Reynolds]

Vince, homosexuality isn't i nherently human...there are animal fags too.

I really don't see how you can view it as some form of disease or aberration, it's a natural thang.....DEAL WITH IT!

I wonder if we've ever recorded a spontaneous fag bashing in the animal kingdom though?

 

[Natoma]

Fine fine. You baited me into it.

First, homosexuality isn't uniquely human. It has been documented in numerous animal species as well. I doubt their environmental situations are similar to ours. Second, homosexuality has existed in every culture humanity has ever created over thousands of years. It's not like it just popped up after the sexual revolution. a nod to sebastian who likes to blame all of today's sexual problems on the pill and feminism. hehe

You always start off with the supposition that homosexuality is an error. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why nothing makes sense to you is because you're going about it in the wrong way. But hey, don't let me stop you from believing what you want to believe.

 

[Natoma]

You may not like the facts but other groups of people have had it worse.

Trying to determine who has it the worst is a rather fruitless, pointless endeavor. IMO. But in all honesty I would hate being a black gay man in this country, but of course I would cure that situation if I were born into it by watching countless reruns of Dukes of Hazard.

Oh I could change pretty easily. A little skin bleaching and a few hundred hours of high voltage electroshock treatment and I'll be the whitest straight man you know.

 

[John Reynolds]

Oh I could change pretty easily. A little skin bleaching and a few hundred hours of high voltage electroshock treatment and I'll be the whitest straight man you know.

Whatever you say, Michael.

 

[Vince]

Vince, homosexuality isn't i nherently human...there are animal fags too.

Wow, animal "fags" too, huh? Do animals not have hormones and neurotransmitters and other such variables? Or are they special too? By the way, great choice of words there pal... not even I would say that.

If anything, Digitalwanderer, they are a great example of what I'm saying as they don't have as evolved cognative abilities as humans and the associated traits which drop out of it such as global societal beliefs and pressures to conform and other "effects" - if you will - which are associated with human epistemology. They're [animals] a perfect microcosm.

I really don't see how you can view it as some form of disease or aberration, it's a natural thang.....DEAL WITH IT!

Wow, I'm blown away by your supporting evidence. It's too bad I can point to the best definition of life and the overriding goal of all biological organisms we've ever witnessed (no exceptions, ever) and state that Homosexuality is a faulty strategy in the evolutionary trend towards greater diversity, a wider gene pool, and the advancement of our species vis-a-vis reproduction. I can then point to human DNA, which is a known, and state that it's inheriently made with procreation by two sexes in mind to further the above qualities by being diploid.

I can then, state that it's just as "natural" as incest and beastiality - which are other "dead-end", attempted reproductive strategies in the proverbial eyes of evolution.

The difference, which you illuminated for me - thanks, is that humans have evolved to such a cognative level, such stature, that we've lost sight of the animal which we truely are. We've lost sight of the fact that emotions exist to further the survivability of an organism and by extention a species, nothing more. The emotions a homosexual feels are true feelings, of course, nobody is denying this. But they are misplaced feelings, feelings which are the result of irregular activies in the human on a biochemical level which has created feelings which don't further the survivability of the organisms and it's information content; but rather are now supporting a fallicious evolutionary strategy. And it's justified by the cognative level we've reached, into the belief it's something true, something pure. But alas, it's not - it's merely a biological fault, magnified and made acceptable by the human mind and it's societal creations.