Could multiple Xenon SKUs work?

[Farid]

IIRC the software license fee for 3DO was dirt cheap, I wonder how they attempted to make money.

3DO treated their console like any classical consumer electronic product, some sort of VHS VCR of the videogaming era.
It was an open format with a cheap hardware licensing fee, and, IIRC, the consortium was also giving a part of the software fees to the harware manufacturer based on their marketshare (On 3DO HW sales).

The idea was that the hardware was never sold at loss (Like any other CE product) meaning that potentially all CE major actors could be interested in entering the very profitable videogame sector, since it was "risk free".

About the high price, they counted on the fact that, with time, the prices will go down naturally (Like the VCRs, once again), and therefore make the platform mainstream, and no more high-end.

Of course, market reality and technology advancements, killed the idea quite fast.

 

[jvd]

If you´re going to be offering a higher end machine, then the features should justify it. Maybe not extra ram, but a HD DVD/BluRay drive would definitely be a good extra, along with a HDD for TiVo like functionality (I´m not expecting Xenon to sport a HDD and a HD DVD drive) and perhaps DVD recording as well. Remember, with a higher end unit, you must offer the basic functionality plus exciting extra functionality.

The hd-dvd or bluray should be standard as if its not then the games aren't going to take advantage of it .



A hardrive on the other hand can be used for more than just games .

IF they put out a good pvr software suite for the xenon then a bigger hardrive will be noticed by consumers .



I can understand them not being able to put a 200gig hardrive in a 300$ system. But in a 500$ ? Why not ? Esp if the standard system with a much smaller drive is 300$ . Thats 200$ more for the bigger drive which wont add 200 to the cost .

Almost anything else would go unused .


If xenon doesn't have a hd-dvd drive it would be nice to have it in a 500$ model , but most likely you will be able to buy a stand alone player for less than that 500$

Same would go with bluray if the ps3 didn't come with it standard. At 500$ you can get a standalone by that time .

With a hardrive you can create and trade maps and mods , use pvr features , store many patches and game maps from developers .

There is more than 1 use and While a 40 gig standard drive or the like would be good for some , those who would actually spend 500$ on a console would def be able to quickly fill that drive

 

[Shifty Geezer]

With a hardrive you can create and trade maps and mods , use pvr features , store many patches and game maps from developers .

You can do all that except PVR with flash storage though. An HD could only really replace Flash for PVR and substantial game storage (much faster to stream off than optical drive). In the latter case, if the basic system doesn't support it, it won't get used. Look at the different hardware add-ons for various systems, like N64's memory or PS2s HD, and you see addons aren't written for. So that only leaves PVR as a use for HD if it's an additional component to a highend XB2 system.

That divides XB2 into 'console' and 'console+PVR', like PS2 and PSX.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

My rambled thoughts...

1) Base model: $250-$300: No hard drive, standard DVD drive. Plays all XBox2 games the same way as the higher priced SKUs. (That is, XBox2 developed titles must NOT require a hard drive.)

2) Middle model: $350-$400 Includes moderate sized hard drive. This model will ALSO be compatible with X-Box1 games. The hard drive also gives other "common" hard drive abilities, like MP3 ripping / storage, save game data without using flash or memory cards, storage for picture slide shows, etc. You can use a keyboard /mouse for web, etc.

3) High-end: $450-$500: Larger hard drive, and possibly the addition of HD-DVD and/or writable DVD drive. (HD-DVD would NOT be used for games, but it can be used for HD DVD play-back.) This box also has DVR functionality. Also possible (but wishful thinking) to include an OpenCable slot for cable cards.

Basically, IMO, the Base model must be able to play all X-Box2 games in full glory. There shouldn't be a case where you can buy a game for a higher model X-Box, that "won't work" on a lower model. Consumers must be convinced that the lowest price model will play "all" the games (is the "true console"), and the higher priced stuff is for "extras", like backwards compatibility, DVD Hi-Def, DVR, etc.

 

[AzBat]

Thanks to RabidRabbit for posting this in the Xbox2 wireless controller thread

engadget[/URL]]Our same reliable source who delivered the goods for us a few weeks back with the inside dirt that the name for the next Xbox is indeed the Xbox 360 has just hit us up with a couple of other nibblets: One, that the Xbox 360 is definitely going to come with wireless controllers; and two, that it’s going to have an optional hard drive that attaches to the top of Xbox 360 “in a really slick way, almost like the hood scoop on a muscle car.â€￾ Better still, “You’ll be able to add the hard drive afterwards without having to take the box apart if you didn’t buy the hard drive version of the Xbox 360.â€￾ Yeah, that means there are going to be (at least) two versions of the Xbox 360 available when it goes on sale, one with a hard drive, and one without.

Can you say iPod? LOL If this rumor and the others about designer face-plats are true, then I can see the Xbox2 customization market being just like the car customization market. LOL

Can't wait to see if all this really comes true.

Tommy McClain

 

[jvd]

With a hardrive you can create and trade maps and mods , use pvr features , store many patches and game maps from developers .

You can do all that except PVR with flash storage though. An HD could only really replace Flash for PVR and substantial game storage (much faster to stream off than optical drive). In the latter case, if the basic system doesn't support it, it won't get used. Look at the different hardware add-ons for various systems, like N64's memory or PS2s HD, and you see addons aren't written for. So that only leaves PVR as a use for HD if it's an additional component to a highend XB2 system.

That divides XB2 into 'console' and 'console+PVR', like PS2 and PSX.

You can do it on flash media but at a much higher cost , 1gig flash drive is 100$ vs 120 gig hardrive .

They can also have a basic version of the pvr software and then a subscription based version for use in the higher models to recoup expenses .

As for basic hardware support that is exactly what I"m saying

The base model needs to have a hd-dvd drive , it needs to have a standard amount of ram , a modem , 4 controller ports. These are things that need to come built in if you want the highest possible amount of usage in games. I belive a base hardrive should be included no matter what the size , 40 gig , 80 gig whatever they feel is the right size and the more expensive models should only increase the size as that is the one thing that you can increase with out having to worry about games taking advantage of it .

 

[wco81]

If it comes with wireless controllers, then there's less of a reason to have the console close to you. A lot of people might stow it in their entertainment centers so those designer face plates might not be seen too much.

As for the optional hard drive, it would have to be priced pretty low to have a good attach rate. The PS2 HDD didn't sell because they wanted $100 for it. So $50 is probably more viable to have a big attach rate (and if the attach rate is low, then there won't be any games supporting the peripheral).

What kind of an iPod can you have for $50? Not much of one, unless they stick in at least a 5 GB drive and subsidize it (since most 5 GB DAPs are around $200).

Of course, they could just make it a flash RAM player but in that case, why bother? They can just stick in an SD slot but more than likely, they will have a proprietary format since they could make money that way on the media.

 

[AzBat]

If it comes with wireless controllers, then there's less of a reason to have the console close to you. A lot of people might stow it in their entertainment centers so those designer face plates might not be seen too much.

Possibly, but you'll still need quick access to the portable hard drive and DVD drive. Personally, I won't tuck it away like my audio/video receiver even if does have wireless controller support.

As for the optional hard drive, it would have to be priced pretty low to have a good attach rate. The PS2 HDD didn't sell because they wanted $100 for it. So $50 is probably more viable to have a big attach rate (and if the attach rate is low, then there won't be any games supporting the peripheral).

But the PS2 HDD wasn't portable and didn't have the capability of using it like an iPod either. Plus, you still had to pay $40 for the Network Adapter too. $140 for 40gigs wasn't too bad. Let's compare to Apple...

iPod Shuffle - 512MB - $100
iPod Shuffle - 1GB - $150
iPod Mini - 4GB - $250
iPod - 20GB - $300
iPod - 40GB - $400
iPod Photo - 40GB - $500
iPod Photo - 60GB - $600

I can see the Xbox2 HDD add-on targetting the iPod Mini in size and capacity for a $150 or less. I also don't see it being used by games for anything other than custom soundtracks and as a large memory card for saves.

What kind of an iPod can you have for $50? Not much of one, unless they stick in at least a 5 GB drive and subsidize it (since most 5 GB DAPs are around $200).

Of course, they could just make it a flash RAM player but in that case, why bother? They can just stick in an SD slot but more than likely, they will have a proprietary format since they could make money that way on the media.

I also doubt it would be a flash RAM player in the typical sense. Though I do expect the use of a standard USB interface. Plus, MS are working with M-Systems for some kind of flash storage. This is probably going to be used for the HDD add-on and lower-capacity memory cards. I don't think want MS will want to sell the HDD add-on at $50 seperately since the memory cards will probably be similar in price to current memory cards($30). $100 seems like a sweet spot for 1GB+ HDD add-on. Hopefully it's more like 2 or 4GB.

Anyway, the only way I see MS subsidizing the cost of the HDD add-on is in the packaged deal. Maybe they give you a $50 discount or maybe you need to buy a Xbox Live subscription to get it free. There's all kind of possibilities. Either way, I think MS will make sure they make a profit on it if sold seperately.

Tommy McClain

 

[Megadrive1988]

all versions of Xbox 2, assuming there are 2 or 3 versions, would have to run games in the same high resolutions. the CPU and VPU will almost certainly be the same across multiple Xbox 2s.

720p should be the most commen resolution, but all games should run in 1080i also.

maybe some games will run in 1080p, perhaps even as often as we see 720p / 1080i games on Xbox1.

 

[Megadrive1988]

My rambled thoughts...

1) Base model: $250-$300: No hard drive, standard DVD drive. Plays all XBox2 games the same way as the higher priced SKUs. (That is, XBox2 developed titles must NOT require a hard drive.)

2) Middle model: $350-$400 Includes moderate sized hard drive. This model will ALSO be compatible with X-Box1 games. The hard drive also gives other "common" hard drive abilities, like MP3 ripping / storage, save game data without using flash or memory cards, storage for picture slide shows, etc. You can use a keyboard /mouse for web, etc.

3) High-end: $450-$500: Larger hard drive, and possibly the addition of HD-DVD and/or writable DVD drive. (HD-DVD would NOT be used for games, but it can be used for HD DVD play-back.) This box also has DVR functionality. Also possible (but wishful thinking) to include an OpenCable slot for cable cards.

Joe, don't forget that the highend, third version of Xbox2 is expected to be a PC as well, hence the name 'Xbox Next PC' $500 would be the perfect price for such a device, and not the $600-$800 that was reported, or the initial $700-$900 price of the Sony PSX.

and I do totally agree with your price ranges.

Basically, IMO, the Base model must be able to play all X-Box2 games in full glory. There shouldn't be a case where you can buy a game for a higher model X-Box, that "won't work" on a lower model. Consumers must be convinced that the lowest price model will play "all" the games (is the "true console"), and the higher priced stuff is for "extras", like backwards compatibility, DVD Hi-Def, DVR, etc

exactly.

 

[Megadrive1988]

They could do it like low-high end PC GPU too IMO.

$300 for 480p
$500 for 720p
$1000 for 1080p

That way they can save money, IMO.

If PC developers can deal with multiple resolutions, with just 3 platforms, I am sure consoles dev can deal with it too.

I disagree about this. (unless i am misunderstanding you here) I think all models of Xbox2 should be able to run Xbox2 games in the same resolutions, and at the same framerates. (i know you just mentioned resolutions but you were comparing to how they do it with low-high end PC GPUs). game-resolution should not differ between the various models of Xbox2.


now, with that said, I would NOT be against having the ability to connect *two* Xbox2s together to double, or almost double, the framerate in games that really need it. Imagine an RPG that has really amazing graphics, but only runs at 20 to 30 frames per second on Xbox2
(on all three models). it would be awesome to be able to add a second Xbox2, even the $250~$300 base-model Xbox2 to a ~$500 upscale Xbox2, and nearly double your framerate. Yeah, I know the chances of this happening are slim-to-none, but it would totally be cool.

that said, I believe all Xbox2's wil run games at the same resolutions.

 

[Nick Laslett]

...

 

[hey69]

$199 ?? sorry but that's just ridicilous for launch

 

[Nick Laslett]

....

 

[London Geezer]

$199 ?? sorry but that's just ridicilous for launch

Hello Dreamcast, hello Gamecube.

And come November 2005, hello Xbox360.

MMmmmm i'll believe that when i see it. Besides, why would MS release "the next DC or GC"??? Think about it.

 

[Fodder]

I don't think a low launch price hurt the DC or GC. Sure, they made a little less profit on initial sales, but it was software not hardware that was the real problem.

 

[jvd]

I don't think a low launch price hurt the DC or GC. Sure, they made a little less profit on initial sales, but it was software not hardware that was the real problem.

I don't think it was software either.

Look at the dreamcast , it was up to 10 million in 2 years , if it had stayed on the market it would have pulled in numbers like the xbox and cube have done , mabye just mabye higher as it would be dirt cheap quickly .


The real problem came with the sony hype for the dreamcast , then the sony +ms hype against the gamecube .

If it was just the gamecube and ps2 the gamecube could have sold alot better , it has the quality games , it just doesn't have the it factor

 

[Fodder]

I do. I'm not disputing that both had great games (I'm a GC owner and proud of it), but with third party devs flocking to Sony they were doomed.