Cost of building a gaming PC *spawn

Which makes these debates pretty limited.

Along with very diverse regional prices, we also end up with the 'shop around for hardware' options as if consoles are never in sales, and 'PC games are cheaper' comparing only RRP and not really comparing best deal prices.

Ultimately the topic is far more complex than the to-and-fro pointwise arguments we always have. The list of parts, the links to Craigslist, the limited pricing comparisons...it really is kinda pointless unless someone was to really commit considerable effort to research a fair comparison.

I think it obvious PC is better long-term value, but the nuances in ownership and the buying experience can't be readily quantified to make a fair comparison and argument which is the better buying option. I won't stop anyone else debating this again, but personally I don't see any value in the discussion. My original point about the jaw-dropping GPU prices is more interesting to me in relation to price/performance over time. Do these GPUs pay their way, costing more because they are proportionally better than lower prices GPUs, or is the price of top tier gaming increasing (like everything else, so you'd expect so!)?

Also, Steam's Big Picture mode had an overhaul. How is it now? Reasonable substitute for a console?

Yeah, there's a huge difference between just going into any storefront (retail or online) and picking up a console versus spending potentially hours, days or weeks (depending on whether one wants to try to get their PC built or upgraded under a certain budget) looking for and researching PC parts. Not to mention being able to assemble all of those parts afterwards. Of course, you can always get a pre-built PC but then you're guaranteed to pay quite a bit more than a console.

If a device is only going to be used for gaming, it's really hard to justify a PC over a console for the vast majority of people. It's only when the PC is also going to be used for other things where the value proposition starts to make sense for many people. Of course, for some segment of the buying population where cost is less of an issue or where other things are deemed necessary (universal KBM support, graphics configuration, IQ, etc.) then the value proposition obviously shifts on a person by person basis.

Hence, IMO, as long as the console makers can keep console pricing in consumer friendly territory, then there will always be a market for consoles because consoles will always represent the better value proposition for most people.

Regards,
SB
 
The PS5 has dynamic res at 1440p with RT so it can drop to 1080p I think - but with the framerate uncapped, it goes to 80+ fps with RT. The 3050 is irrelevant.

The RT benchmarks most sites do as well is basically Spiderman running along the street, likely for reproducibility. Actual web slinging around the city is another matter and puts far more stress on the CPU. Your 3600 would absolutely crater here regardless of the GPU.
But what is the ray tracing settings ? What would be the equivalent in terms of pc settings ? How would we know the 3050 is irrelevant ? It's already getting 30-40fps in 1440p with high settings and ray tracing.
 
But what is the ray tracing settings ? What would be the equivalent in terms of pc settings ? How would we know the 3050 is irrelevant ? It's already getting 30-40fps in 1440p with high settings and ray tracing.

You can watch DF's video for those details. We know the 3050 is irrelevant due to this and every other game in which it's benchmarked.

As you seriously arguing the 3050 is a console competitor? Like come on, you have to have some basic knowledge of the respective power of each platform before you actually start to make pricing comparisons.
 
The normal PC ports came out after the NV1 version.
You are probably right about that. But that doesn't change the fact that Sega released Genesis games on PC, and some of them like Comix Zone only a few months after their Genesis release. Or that titles that followed the NV1 games that didn't use the NV1 hardware still existed on PC at a time when no other platform maker that I can think of were publishing their stuff on PC. Maybe 3DO had some ports of first party stuff back then, but nothing on the scale of what Sega was doing. The idea that Sega wasn't one of the earlier publishers or developers of console games to make a hard push on PC ignores the fact that they did it early and often.
 
Yeah, there's a huge difference between just going into any storefront (retail or online) and picking up a console versus spending potentially hours, days or weeks (depending on whether one wants to try to get their PC built or upgraded under a certain budget) looking for and researching PC parts. Not to mention being able to assemble all of those parts afterwards. Of course, you can always get a pre-built PC but then you're guaranteed to pay quite a bit more than a console.

Which is why I'm so gung-ho on the idea of APU's taking a significant chunk of the low/midrange market, even if they didn't offer a better price/performance curve than a comparable discrete solution, if perhaps even slightly worse. Just the simplicity of the purchase process would make it far easier to recommend a 'gaming PC' to someone who isn't already invested in this stuff.

Alas, market and physical realities.
 
You can watch DF's video for those details. We know the 3050 is irrelevant due to this and every other game in which it's benchmarked.

As you seriously arguing the 3050 is a console competitor? Like come on, you have to have some basic knowledge of the respective power of each platform before you actually start to make pricing comparisons.
I'm watching the video now they don't test the 3050 however


the 3060 here with optimized ray racing is able to stay above 60fps at 1440p now DRS . Even the 6600 is doing pretty well staying above 30fps in cut scenes and above 40fps out in the world

and here



we can see here

1080p very high /ray tracing very high and dlss gets you 50-60fps . Drop it to very high / ray tracing high + dlss and you are above 60fps reaching into the 100fps mark. I am sure with optimized settings from DF you can get even higher frame rates at at the very least a similar experiance to the playstation 5
 
The 3060 is ballpark console performance, the 3050 really isnt. The 3050 isnt anything id recommend to anyone.

It depends on what they want out of the machine right ?

Someone may come to me and say they want a machine that can play x amount of games at say 1080p and they plan on upgrading in a year or two. I'd certainly recommend it if it's in their price range.

It already seems like the 3060 will get you beyond ps5 performance in spiderman which is a ps4/5 game that isn't greatly optimized for the pc .

I personally think its an odd benchmark to go by.
 
It depends on what they want out of the machine right ?

Someone may come to me and say they want a machine that can play x amount of games at say 1080p and they plan on upgrading in a year or two. I'd certainly recommend it if it's in their price range.

It already seems like the 3060 will get you beyond ps5 performance in spiderman which is a ps4/5 game that isn't greatly optimized for the pc .

I personally think its an odd benchmark to go by.

Oh but i agree with that. Most pc gamers arent looking to match, surpass or stay below console performance. Its not something that really matters in that market. The 3050 might be a very good GPU for many gamers, however in the context of 'matching consoles' the 3050 isnt really it, not PS5/XSX atleast. You'd need a 3060 or better yet a 3060Ti to outmatch them. What 90% of the pc gamer market doesnt need is 4080 level performance... not even 3080 i think lol. These things are so far above the baseline that its kinda overkill for the average joe looking to play some games.... I think GPUs have become outworldly capable these days, CPU's cant even keep up anymore. A two year old 3060Ti is in this context a good enough GPU (or 6600XT, A770 etc). You get more performance than the consoles with the ability to upgrade to a 4060 or 5060 in the future. A 4060 would be not too far off from a 3070Ti i think.

Were being somewhat blinded by the 4090's and 4080's, 7900's etc.
 
You are probably right about that. But that doesn't change the fact that Sega released Genesis games on PC, and some of them like Comix Zone only a few months after their Genesis release. Or that titles that followed the NV1 games that didn't use the NV1 hardware still existed on PC at a time when no other platform maker that I can think of were publishing their stuff on PC. Maybe 3DO had some ports of first party stuff back then, but nothing on the scale of what Sega was doing. The idea that Sega wasn't one of the earlier publishers or developers of console games to make a hard push on PC ignores the fact that they did it early and often.

I guess we're coming at this from 2 different angles. In the original post that you responded to I never made any claims that no other console maker was releasing titles on PC, nor that Capcom were the first to do so.

Capcom were, however, the first to really take it seriously, IMO. On PC the quality of the port will in most cases determine whether it sells well. This was what I was alluding to WRT other console makers not taking the PC seriously even if they were having some of their titles ported over to PC. Yes, it's more serious than not releasing titles on PC, but not as all in as making sure that PC is part of the development process from start to finish. Capcom didn't do that with all titles when they first committed to taking PC seriously WRT the development process of a game back in the mid 2000's but you have to start somewhere. And while they have certainly had growing pains WRT that commitment, they are certainly being rewarded for it now.

As such, it's no wonder that such a large proportion of Capsom's game sales come from PC (the post I was originally responding to). The same is true for many developers that treat the PC as a first class development target (similar time spent targetting and optimizing for the PC as consoles) rather than an opportunity target (quick and dirty ports often done by a contracted 3rd party and often showing poor or irregular quality).

So, I guess if anything, I shouldn't have lumped Sega in with many console developers who didn't even bother to have their titles ported to PC. They at least were releasing some, but not all, Sega titles (Sega and wholly owned subsidiaries) on PC, even if the port quality was variable depending on who was doing the port.

Mea culpa.

Regards,
SB
 
Yeah but as soon as you bring in arguments about ease of use, you can counter with arguments of more functionality and greater flexibility. And since both those arguments are less easy to quantify than simply cost and performance, it's difficult to compare them directly. I agree though that they are absolutely factors that people should consider in terms of the value proposition for themselves.



It does of course have limits, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new PC every time. You can save on storage costs, the case, the PSU, peripherals, windows license, and you don't have to upgrade all the core components together or with the same level of frequency.



Not necessarily that fast. A motherboard socket can often run for 5 years (e.g. LGA 1151, AM4) and will offer a big improvement from start to finish. That said, since you will only need to upgrade your CPU once per console gen to maintain parity or better, you may also choose to upgrade the motherboard and memory at the same time - personally I always have.



Can do, but it can also cost you less, for more performance. It all depends on how well you time the purchase and how much you care about getting relative value compared to consoles. For example you could have picked up a 3060Ti when it first launched (assuming you were quick enough to avoid the mining craze) for less than the cost of a high end console despite having more performance. If you wait a couple of years into the generation, you should get much more performance for less cost.

I do think you'll be spending more on hardware overall, even with the well timed upgrade option if you want to stay above console performance the vast majority of time, but that's where the other savings come in to reduce the overall relative cost of ownership,
Nothing to really disagree here. Both platforms have their cons and pros. Surely you can counter one platform's pros with another's own pros.

But it is a matter of preference from that point and not which one is better overall.

You can quantify though how many people have more liking/disliking on one platforms pros/cons over the other by counting their buying habits. Again this has nothing to do with which one is better. Its all about priorities and what pros they value more. Discussing which platform is better is nonsensical.

I can bring you myself as an example. It may seem anecdotal but it can give a perspective of the practicalities involved with people's choices. When I built my newest PC it totally blew my PS4 out of the water. But I built it mainly for work. 48GB Ram, 2 SSDs (one is an M2), a fast HDD, Ryzen 1700 and a 1080ti in 2017. I paid like around €2200 to build that monster.

I had it in my office. Because when I had to be able to concentrate for serious work on 3D, I needed the right set up. The living room is not such a setup
If I enjoyed gaming on a PC monitor, it would have certainly been my choice for gaming. If my priority was gaming on that PC, I would have had it in my living room. Because of work being a priority on my PC and not liking doing my PC stuff or work in my living room, I didnt have it connected on my TV ( Although I did test it to see how great games would look there)

So a console in my living room was a very practical and convenient solution for my gaming needs because thats where (living room) I want to game and I wasnt willing to pay again that much for another PC just for gaming.

A similar reason is why most people who play on consoles in the living room own a PC as well which may or msy not be used for gaming at all.

There is a huge amount of people that value convenience over flexibility and functionality when it comes to their gaming habits. And certainly a lot arent into upgrading PC components or building hardware. PC enthusiasts are the reverse

Those former wont turn to PC, the same way PC enthusiasts wont turn over to consoles. Unless something really changes about the way these devices are designed
 
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1080p very high /ray tracing very high and dlss gets you 50-60fps . Drop it to very high / ray tracing high + dlss and you are above 60fps reaching into the 100fps mark. I am sure with optimized settings from DF you can get even higher frame rates at at the very least a similar experiance to the playstation 5

If you lower the settings/resolution enough, sure. You could get 60fps on a 3050, being able to control the graphical quality vs the framerate with a much higher degree of freedom you have vs the consoles is always an advantage for the PC. But that's not the argument. I'm not saying a 3050 makes gaming on such a system irrelevant, I'm saying it's irrelevant when trying to shoehorn it in to meet a pricing argument wrt being a viable console competitor for the same price class. It simply isn't.

As someone who has actually run Spiderman on a PS5 and PC on the same display, I can tell you absolutely that 1080p with DLSS looks like absolute shit compared to the PS5 RT's mode with IGTI - hell, there are issues with it running DLSS at 4k dynamic even. It is not a similar experience, and even with a 5600x, there will likely be moments of CPU bottlenecking, such as leaping over the roofs of buildings that don't cause the same drops on PS5. Sure, it's one game - but it's not like other games really change the equation here. It's significantly slower than a 2060 for pete's sake. It was a poor performing card at launch and it's worse now.

We've gone from "$600 gives you a much faster system than the consoles", to "well it's kind of comparable" to "well it's below but kind of close enough".
 
What settings would spiderman on the ps5 be to get a pc looking like it ?

View attachment 7476

here with High quality / High ray tracing at 1440p you'd be able to go down to a a 3050 and stay above 30fps

The settings used in the above chart but as the game is so CPU limited you could actually increase the reflection resolution to above what PS5 offers and not get a performance hit.
 
The average pc gamer isnt a 'pc enthusiast', quite far from it.
And yeah, the RTX3050 isnt anything id recommend myself to anyone, not at launch and not today.
The average PC gamer may be gaming on an average computer in a small room or laptop he bought 5 years ago from a store without having to research or build anything by himself, probably playing fortnite or minecraft instead of state of the art games and didnt think about any of the arguments brought here.
Trying to present one as an all end solution or perfect substitute of another for everyone is pointless.
We ve been having these discussions for ages and nothing really changed
 
The average PC gamer may be gaming on an average computer in a small room or laptop he bought 5 years ago from a store without having to research or build anything by himself, probably playing fortnite or minecraft instead of state of the art games and didnt think about any of the arguments brought here.

The average console gamer may be gaming on a 2013 PS4 in the bedroom, probably playing last years FIFA, NHL and the occasional CoD. Minecraft and fortnite might be there aswell.
 
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