Console Failures and Successes *spawn*

[Nesh]

I mean it wasn't perceived as a dud at launch. Bunge suggested the worldwide crisis helped obscure poor sales as though the poor sales were because people didn't want PS3. The market didn't snub it because it was no good; sales were only down because it was expensive, but it was still desirable. Most of what you list only started affecting the platform after launch when people realised it all.

What do you mean? The thing was released at a super expensive price one year late in US and one year and a half late in Europe. People were looking for those oh Godly CGI visuals produced by the CELL processor and the REALITY synthesizer. Instead they were getting multi platform games that under performed compared to the 360 that was released earlier.
Exclusive games were very very few, they weren't anything special and reviews were not so great. All games shown at the first reveal were no where as great looking as their target renders.
The PS3 was getting a lot of flunk in forums and by gaming websites for not having games.

Even before the launch, the PS3 was raising eyebrows.
The price announcement was a shock followed by crazy Ken's statement that you have to work a lot to have one.
Then Sony missed their launch target of March 2006.
It missed the rumble feature. Excuse? Old gen. We all knew there was a patent issue.
Lets not for forget the Riiiiiiidge Racer and Giant Enemy Crab memes
Then before and after launch a ton of articles and spec comparisons were appearing showing that the PS3 was under performing compared to the 360 and it was a development hell. The Cell was not praised by most. It was like the Saturn vs PS1. Only this time Sony was Sega. Devs working on games like Heavenly Sword were trying to defend the PS3's real capabilities on these very forums while others were expressing their distaste.
Then it was one exclusive game after the other being re announced for the 360 as well, including rumors that MGS4 would be released for the 360.
On top articles were being released showing the financial disaster Sony was into, especially their SCE department and the fact that every console was costing Sony $800-$900 to manufacture. Billions were being lost.
And when Sony released their console articles were showing empty lines during launch, piles of units in stores, an XBOX boat thanking Sony for screwing up during the PS3 launch etc.

It was worse than the Saturn and it was getting more flunk than the XBOX One

People wanted the console and at the same time were filled with doubt.

Sony made all the right moves to turn it from a dud to a worthwhile product step by step. But oh my, for some period it was a disaster

 

[mrcorbo]

I use the word 'dud' to mean something people didn't want. PS3 was a product people wanted but couldn't afford. Contrast that with Wii U, say, which was a product people didn't want. Wii U was a dud, PS3 wasn't. From a business POV, yes, it can be said PS3 was a product dud because it was too expensive.

How do you determine that definitively?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

How do you determine that definitively?

You can't, but the fact that consoles sell more the lower they are priced is compelling evidence. It's also the basis on which fire sales like Black Friday are predicated.

 

[mrcorbo]

You can't, but the fact that consoles sell more the lower they are priced is compelling evidence. It's also the basis on which fire sales like Black Friday are predicated.

So then, the PS3 is not a dud, because it's sales met expectations determined by the price. But the Xbox One is a dud, because either it's sales didn't meet expectations based on the price or a lower price wouldn't have increased the sales?

Because that's the distinction I'm trying to understand.

 

[chris1515]

The PS3 was saved by the brand power following the success of PS1 and PS2...

The price was too high 599 and they lost 200 dollars per console because of Crazy Ken.

The CELL was too difficult to master and cost some indie support to Sony... The GPU was not customized for console and not a very good one compare to the 360 one...

After 2009 Sony began to have good exclusives games and it helps and Sony grow studio like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Media Molecule, Sony Santa Monica, Sucker Punch and Sony gain some mindshare with the core gamer and it was helped by the attention Microsoft gives to Kinect with less core gamer game...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So then, the PS3 is not a dud, because it's sales met expectations determined by the price.

Unless the manufacturer publishes expectations, you can't say. Ken Kutaragi made some pretty dumb statements about people getting second jobs to pay for a PS3 so based on those very public statements, PS3 clearly did not meet Sony's initial expectations.

Expectations are adjusted to actual events, like poor initial sales, so it's all arguable. I'm not arguing. PS3 was a low point in Sony's history and one that seriously hurt the company. Xbox One did not hurt Microsoft, only the Xbox team.

 

[Karamazov]

i had a blast with the 360, i had bought it just to wait until the PS3 but ended having only the 360 for the whole generation.
i was so ready to buy a Xbox one but MS handled it so poorly it was baffling. How could they do things so right with the 360 and so wrong with the Xbox One ?

I think my choice for next gen will be driven by the quality of their VR offering.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

i was so ready to buy a Xbox one but MS handled it so poorly it was baffling. How could they do things so right with the 360 and so wrong with the Xbox One ?

Last gen, Sony thought a media-centric device - "it only does everything" - was the right approach. This gen Microsoft thought it was the right time for the same thing. Both overlooked that there are better and cheaper options for media and that Google does voice recognition better than both Microsoft and Sony. People buy PlayStation and Xbox for games and that's where the majority of today's profits are.

But it's good companies try new other things otherwise technology stagnates. Nintendo are the crazy bastards that try something different every generation so we can rely on them not playing safe.

 

[Nesh]

How do you determine that definitively?

He has a point. After the PS1, PS2 success followed by E3 2005 that left history, people were crazy about it. There were many who wanted to get their hands on it, and especially for many third party games known to be PS exclusives,.
Resident Evil, DMC, Final Fantasy, MGS, Tekken etc were peceived as must haves and Playstation only games.
One of the reasons why the PS consoles were successful was because they traditionally launched at a great price with state of the art graphics. But for the first time the price was super high. Many wanted to get the console sooner but didnt because of the delay and the price tag. Those potentially first adopters were cooled down. This is why after Sony slashed the price with a revised console, followed by huge spending on advertisements of upcoming games and it's media features increased sales significantly.
But still, that wasn't enough to bring it back to PS2 status.
People were hoping that Sony would eventually show off the PS3's secret sauce with exclusives and that took a lot of time. They were sporadic and only after 2008-2009 it was showing the image people wanted from the Playstation. Thankfully exclusives were coming up and eventually they gained back some of the lost trust which people demanded from MS this genraration for XBOX One (but MS failed to do so).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How do you determine that definitively?

When the price dropped, sales jumped. If people didn't want the machine, price changes wouldn't have affected sales. And between when Ps3 launched and later, when some are claiming Sony turned it around, nothing much changed with the machine, and sales were steady its entire life.

Where in that graph is the turnaround Sony managed? Only point I can see is right where the price was slashed.

If we compare that to Xbox One that had a price slash in May 2014, month 6, sales didn't change because interest wasn't there.

 

[iroboto]

curious to see what that graph looks like today now that we are at month 48

 

[mrcorbo]

When the price dropped, sales jumped. If people didn't want the machine, price changes wouldn't have affected sales. And between when Ps3 launched and later, when some are claiming Sony turned it around, nothing much changed with the machine, and sales were steady its entire life.

Where in that graph is the turnaround Sony managed? Only point I can see is right where the price was slashed.

If we compare that to Xbox One that had a price slash in May 2014, month 6, sales didn't change because interest wasn't there.

Or it was because it was June, when a price cut would have a lesser impact since console sales in the US are significantly clustered in the 4Q. See the relatively steeper increase the One had vs the PS4 for that particular holiday? I'd argue that was the result of both the prior price-cut plus the an additional $50 cut that November. The PS3 price cut you referenced was a $100 cut in November and followed a previous $100 cut in July that didn't seem to effect sales at all. You also can't discount that this was when some of the 1st party efforts started to bear fruit and 1 year in, they were otherwise starting to get their shit together.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The minimum price for PS3 at launch was $500. The price in July kept the minimum price at $500. The cut in November took the price to $400, the 'not too expensive' price for a console.

 

[mrcorbo]

The minimum price for PS3 at launch was $500. The price in July kept the minimum price at $500. The cut in November took the price to $400, the 'not too expensive' price for a console.

No. They never produced the 20GB model in quantity. It was a non-factor.

 

[bunge]

No. They never produced the 20GB model in quantity. It was a non-factor.

It was always available though. I think early adopters wanted the full package.

 

[dobwal]

It was always available though. I think early adopters wanted the full package.

The 20 GB sku was discontinued in April 07 and was limited to the US and Japan.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No. They never produced the 20GB model in quantity. It was a non-factor.

Whether you want to ignore the minimum price of entry or not, the typical, expected price of a console was ~$400 and the rival's price was $400. PS3 wasn't $400 until a year after release, when it's sales picked up and stayed pretty constant, no?

 

[Nesh]

When the price dropped, sales jumped. If people didn't want the machine, price changes wouldn't have affected sales. And between when Ps3 launched and later, when some are claiming Sony turned it around, nothing much changed with the machine, and sales were steady its entire life.

Where in that graph is the turnaround Sony managed? Only point I can see is right where the price was slashed.

If we compare that to Xbox One that had a price slash in May 2014, month 6, sales didn't change because interest wasn't there.

Blue is 360
Green is PS3

Your graph takes into account only the US. Thats the market where the PS3 didn't recover hence the huge gap in your graph and the fact that there is not much difference between before and after the price cut. PS3 was steadily underperforming and if that continued globally the PS3 might have done worse than XBOX One. Sony simply lost the US market. I suspect that the perception that it was a US product as well also contributed for the 360's success and Sony's inability to improve market performance (as a note we see this being repeated now, where, despite the fact that the XBOX One steadily offers a lesser gaming experience and no exclusives, the gap is tiny between the two consoles in the US, whereas global sales are double for the PS4).
When you take worldwide sales into account, it shows a different picture. Europe enjoyed a price reduction with bundles from the start too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How does that graph show PS3 struggling until Sony turned it around? It shows solid growth from the very start. I'd expect a poor start followed by a recovery to have a low gradient at the start turning into a high gradient when interest is improved.

 

[bunge]

(Lobs hand grenade)

PS3 outsold Xbox 360!

(Ducks and runs for cover)