Console Exclusives: Significance and Impact *spinoff*

Did anyone say 1st party games are better than 3rd party? I haven't noticed that argument anywhere. The reason 3rd party game quality hasn't been raised is because it's not exclusive, so doesn't enter into the equation. On PS1 and 2, there were lots of 3rd party, high quality exclusives that helped to sell the systems. Your argument that there are lots of high quality games from 3rd party so you aren't reliant on high quality games from 1st party is a counter-argument to an argument no-one else raised AFAICS. The issue is one of library, and, unless the libraries are saturated and there's nothing new that exclusives can bring, the machine with more high quality games has the advantage. That those games are first-party is somewhat besides the point, although of course pretty much the only way you get exclusives these days.
 
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Also, it's a fact that exclusives titles on PS4 tend to be better than 3P games if we take Metacritic as an objective measure: http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/available/ps4/metascore

If you take the 10 first highest rated titles, there are 6 exclusive titles...

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/available/xboxone/metascore : but this argument is valid from a Xbox owner view. Among the 10 best rated titles, there is not a single exclusive.

The number of title exclusive rated more than 80 is big too on PS4 and we can add 79 of Until Dawn very varied line up...
 
I think exclusives are important to all systems. I believe Xbox gamers (this generation anyhow) have come to except that most XBO exclusives are timed-multiplatform games. Even Phill Spencer and other Xbox executives are aware of how important exclusives play in maintaining current users and capturing new users. Microsoft's current focus is to secure as many 3rd party titles as they can, offer them as exclusives (even the timed-multiplatform ones), and focus back on cultivating Xbox's ecosystem and services (i.e., their bread and butter).

As I stated before, exclusives are important... maybe not for some... but for the majority, it seems so. The way Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo go about doing so (getting exclusives) and from whom (i.e., 1st, 2nd, 3rd party) shouldn't really matter, as long as they provide them.
 
I'm not discussing the better strategy, nor am I discussing what is better. I definitely want to get away from heading down that path.
Just interested in talking about the impact. What's better is something each person will need to decide for them self.
Did anyone say 1st party games are better than 3rd party? I haven't noticed that argument anywhere.
No. I think the key messaging from me here is to not be dismissive of impact 3P titles. Think of a low probability situation where 3P titles are by far and large the most critically acclaimed titles year after year. It's part of the equation then right? Measuring the difference in titles you never intend to play is pointless. The focal point will then adjust to which console will provide those 3P experiences better right?
This should mirror year 1/2 of this generation in which Xbox had a great deal of a number of AAA exclusives in their launch window (Titanfall/Forza/Ryse... etc) and still largely failed to beat out PS4.
Your argument that there are lots of high quality games from 3rd party so you aren't reliant on high quality games from 1st party is a counter-argument to an argument no-one else raised AFAICS. The issue is one of library, and, unless the libraries are saturated and there's nothing new that exclusives can bring, the machine with more high quality games has the advantage.
Never said that. I think you're asking me from an argumentative perspective if I understand the maximization scenario, chop off what is common and just look at where the libraries are different. Of course I do, this is standard set theory.
but we both know purchasing is driven by value, thus i think we're doing the right way but comparing the wrong things.
Your current argument:
Let A set of all titles on Xbox = { a, b, c, d, e, f, g....}
Let B be the set of all titles on PS4 = {{ a, b, c, d, e, f, g....,e1, e2, e3, e4}
Let C be A intersect B which is the set of all common multi platforms games.

If you just do A-C and compare it against B-C, B wins.

Actual reality use standard distribution put a score out of 10 for instance. Critically acclaimed games are sitting at the 2-3 sigma level.
Let A be perceived value of all titles on Xbox One = {a-8,b-6,c-3,d-5,e-6....}
Let B be perceived value of all titles on PS4 = {a-9,b-7,c-4,d-6,e-7....}
Let C be A intersect B which is the set of all common multi platforms games with the same value score.

So if you now take the Sum of values of A-C and you compare it to the sum of values of B-C, you're going to get wildly different scores.
This is because of 3 reasons:
a) Each person will need to judge the value of the title to them on each platform, it's not for us to decide what that value is, but I suspect things like, interest in the title, experience(graphics & sound, controller) and whether your friends are there to improve the experience, price, and timed exclusivity (novelty of being first to play it), carry over, age of the title (interested when it was new, but no longer interested now it's old) etc, are all factors that would adjust the value scoring between the same title but on competing platforms.
b) any exclusives you want to play creates a scenario of uncontested points
c) any titles you have no interest in playing have a value of 0
d) the difference in value scores between multiplatform games shouldn't be that large, but perhaps this is where I'm wrong.

I think we would expect that for most people they would choose where they perceive the sum of higher value. I setup the scores above to reflect XBO vs PS4 at launch as an example (giving the same MP title 1 pt higher for instance across the board). But the value scores could be wildly different when you bring in the mid gen refreshes and compare them to the base models, things like BC alter the set entirely as for some folks some BC titles are entirely free.

Mathematically, here's where I'm going to land.
Exclusives have uncontested value, meaning, a single score of 10 is uncontested and would take a lift from the rest of the set to make up for it. So I think that's a big impact, especially if you're hammering down exclusives in the 3+ sigma range, where you may expect to see 1 out of 100 titles land there, having a lot of them there is a big deal. And that provides a model of reality, that many of you speak to. But this model should be able to explain why someone may still feel differently.
 
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Also, it's a fact that exclusives titles on PS4 tend to be better than 3P games if we take Metacritic as an objective measure: http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/available/ps4/metascore

If you take the 10 first highest rated titles, there are 6 exclusive titles...
That's very poor statistical analysis. It means that when Sony does well, it does very well. It doesn't mean on average 1st party > 3rd party. You'd need an average score across titles. Sony has released plenty of mediocre and low-metascore games (Knack, the Tomorrow Children). It could be that the average for Sony is lower than 3rd parties, just with a few top-hitters. Or it could be that they're the same, or better. What that question needs is proper analysis of the data, plus it's still moot for this discussion other than saying potentially that the library of significantly rated (85+) titles is notably higher on PS because Sony is producing some top-tier titles. Again, that point should be made with proper statistical analysis of how many games rated >whatever% each platform has, which I can't be bothered to do because I'm not that invested in the topic. ;)
 
That's very poor statistical analysis. It means that when Sony does well, it does very well. It doesn't mean on average 1st party > 3rd party. You'd need an average score across titles. Sony has released plenty of mediocre and low-metascore games (Knack, the Tomorrow Children). It could be that the average for Sony is lower than 3rd parties, just with a few top-hitters. Or it could be that they're the same, or better. What that question needs is proper analysis of the data, plus it's still moot for this discussion other than saying potentially that the library of significantly rated (85+) titles is notably higher on PS because Sony is producing some top-tier titles. Again, that point should be made with proper statistical analysis of how many games rated >whatever% each platform has, which I can't be bothered to do because I'm not that invested in the topic. ;)

There is very few exclusives game first or third party games with bad rating out of indies on Sony Side... The Order 1886 63, Knack 54, The tomorrow Children 54, Knack 2 69... After I will not search all the PS4 games fist and third party exclusive too long and I can't imagine with indies title....
 
I'm not discussing the better strategy, nor am I discussing what is better. I definitely want to get away from heading down that path.
Just interested in talking about the impact. What's better is something each person will need to decide for them self.

No. I think the key messaging from me here is to not be dismissive of impact 3P titles. Think of a low probability situation where 3P titles are by far and large the most critically acclaimed titles year after year. It's part of the equation then right? Measuring the difference in titles you never intend to play is pointless. The focal point will then adjust to which console will provide those 3P experiences better right?
This should mirror year 1/2 of this generation in which Xbox had a great deal of a number of AAA exclusives in their launch window (Titanfall/Forza/Ryse... etc) and still largely failed to beat out PS4.

Never said that. I think you're asking me from an argumentative perspective if I understand the maximization scenario, chop off what is common and just look at where the libraries are different. Of course I do, this is standard set theory.
but we both know purchasing is driven by value, thus i think we're doing the right way but comparing the wrong things.
Your current argument:
Let A set of all titles on Xbox = { a, b, c, d, e, f, g....}
Let B be the set of all titles on PS4 = {{ a, b, c, d, e, f, g....,e1, e2, e3, e4}
Let C be A intersect B which is the set of all common multi platforms games.

If you just do A-C and compare it against B-C, B wins.

Actual reality use standard distribution put a score out of 10 for instance. Critically acclaimed games are sitting at the 2-3 sigma level.
Let A be perceived value of all titles on Xbox One = {a-8,b-6,c-3,d-5,e-6....}
Let B be perceived value of all titles on PS4 = {a-9,b-7,c-4,d-6,e-7....}
Let C be A intersect B which is the set of all common multi platforms games with the same value score.

So if you now take the Sum of values of A-C and you compare it to the sum of values of B-C, you're going to get wildly different scores.
This is because of 3 reasons:
a) Each person will need to judge the value of the title to them on each platform, it's not for us to decide what that value is, but I suspect things like, interest in the title, experience(graphics & sound) and whether your friends are there to improve the experience, price, and timed exclusivity (novelty of being first to play it), carry over, age of the title (interested when it was new, but no longer interested now it's old) etc, are all factors that would adjust the value scoring between the same title but on competing platforms.
b) any exclusives you want to play creates a scenario of uncontested points
c) any titles you have no interest in playing have a value of 0

I think we would expect that for most people they would choose where they perceive the sum of higher value. I setup the scores above to reflect XBO vs PS4 at launch as an example (giving the same MP title 1 pt higher for instance across the board). But the value scores could be wildly different when you bring in the mid gen refreshes and compare them to the base models, things like BC alter the set entirely as for some folks some BC titles are entirely free.

Mathematically, here's where I'm going to land.
Exclusives have uncontested value, meaning, a single score of 10 is uncontested and would take a monumental lift from the rest of the set to make up for it. So I think that's a big impact, especially if you're hammering down exclusives in the 3+ sigma range, where you may expect to see 1 out of 100 titles land there, having a lot of them there is a big deal. And that provides a model of reality, that many of you speak to. But this model should be able to explain why someone may still feel differently.

Having more exclusive for two years is not having more exclusives during all generation and after the quality(metascore) of exclusive is important... People liking exclusives games have more chance to buy a Sony console if they are not fan of Halo/Gears of War/Forza because they know maybe at the begining of the generation there will be not many exclusives but two years after they will have 4 to 5 years of quality exclusives title... From Sony or now from 3rd party japanese studios because Xbox is not selling well in Japan and continental Europe...

And PS4 platform had a high rated exclusive game since 2015 Bloodborne(92)....

And with console based on same architecture next generation it will probably not be the case... Sony studios will lose less time to rebuild technology because they work with a new architecture...

EDIT: And Sony said they will increase the number of exclusives games. This the reason they change the business operation structure

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/03/01/sony-is-restructuring-to-focus-more-on-first-party-games

EDIT2: And this generation there is very few AAA having more than 90+ Overwatch, MGS 5, The Witcher 3, Monster Hunter World, Persona 5, Forza Horizon 3, Bloodborne, God of War, Uncharted 4... Only 9 and 4 are exclusive to PS4... I did not count GTA 5 or The Last of Us remastered...
 
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That's very poor statistical analysis. It means that when Sony does well, it does very well. It doesn't mean on average 1st party > 3rd party. You'd need an average score across titles. Sony has released plenty of mediocre and low-metascore games (Knack, the Tomorrow Children). It could be that the average for Sony is lower than 3rd parties, just with a few top-hitters. Or it could be that they're the same, or better. What that question needs is proper analysis of the data, plus it's still moot for this discussion other than saying potentially that the library of significantly rated (85+) titles is notably higher on PS because Sony is producing some top-tier titles. Again, that point should be made with proper statistical analysis of how many games rated >whatever% each platform has, which I can't be bothered to do because I'm not that invested in the topic. ;)
put less emphasis on the reviews though. I'm not interested in comparing which library is better by review scores, i'm interested in discussing what the impact is on purchasing behaviour. Reviews can't be 100% impacting on whether you buy something or not. A lot of things get high reviews, but don't buy them, and some people do buy them only to be disappointed. Maybe someone really loves Tomorrow Children and rates it a high value. I've only entered this discussion to discuss why someone might not purchase into the larger and better reviewed set library.

We should be layering things in like available money to spend.
I feel like it's pointless to use words, if we can just build a better model that we can all agree on.
 
put less emphasis on the reviews though. I'm not interested in comparing which library is better by review scores, i'm interested in discussing what the impact is on purchasing behaviour. Reviews can't be 100% impacting on whether you buy something or not. A lot of things get high reviews, but people them, and some people do buy them only to be disappointed. Maybe someone really loves Tomorrow Children and rates it a high value. I've only entered this discussion to discuss why someone might not purchase into the larger and better reviewed set library.

We should be layering things in like available money to spend.
I feel like it's pointless to use words, if we can just build a better model that we can all agree on.

Reviews are very important for sales, if not publisher and studios will not be so sensible to review score... It determined bonus sometimes for studios employee and all time sales....
 
Reviews are very important for sales, if not publisher and studios will not be so sensible to review score... It determined bonus sometimes for studios employee and all time sales....
sure I agree with that, can you propose something?
 
put less emphasis on the reviews though. I'm not interested in comparing which library is better by review scores, i'm interested in discussing what the impact is on purchasing behaviour. Reviews can't be 100% impacting on whether you buy something or not. A lot of things get high reviews, but don't buy them, and some people do buy them only to be disappointed. Maybe someone really loves Tomorrow Children and rates it a high value. I've only entered this discussion to discuss why someone might not purchase into the larger and better reviewed set library.
Review scores are the only (pseudo)objective data point we have on the general appeal/value of a game. Higher rated games sell more; and the more higher rated games a platform has, the more it'll appeal on average. So a platform with 1000 exclusive games rated 50 or below will probably appeal a lot less than a platform with 50 exclusives rated 90 and above.

Of course, what review scores don't measure is diversity. Of those low rated games, some will have significant value to a minority of console buyers. Thus a broad range of lower scoring titles that scratch particular itches that no other games do will also sell consoles. I don't think that's measurable in any way.

Perhaps more useful than metacritic scores are sales numbers for games? Those are harder to come by though.
 
sure I agree with that, can you propose something?

Sony PS4 sold two times more than Xbox One and exclusives is part of the reason...

And the Xbox Spain head of marketing admit exclusives are important...

https://www.reasonwhy.es/actualidad...et-es-maduro-hay-gamers-de-50-anos-2018-02-12

How is the competition with Nintendo or Sony in the video game market?


The differentiation is provided by the hardware brands themselves when we launch exclusive games.

EDIT: And Sony has more diverse title out of the quality of exclusives...
 
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Review scores are the only (pseudo)objective data point we have on the general appeal/value of a game. Higher rated games sell more; and the more higher rated games a platform has, the more it'll appeal on average. So a platform with 1000 exclusive games rated 50 or below will probably appeal a lot less than a platform with 50 exclusives rated 90 and above.

Of course, what review scores don't measure is diversity. Of those low rated games, some will have significant value to a minority of console buyers. Thus a broad range of lower scoring titles that scratch particular itches that no other games do will also sell consoles. I don't think that's measurable in any way.

Perhaps more useful than metacritic scores are sales numbers for games? Those are harder to come by though.
Yea you're right, this would get too complicated too fast, I agree to simplify.
Score, Online/Social and Price is probably the largest determinant factors here.
Review Score should incorporate the differences in graphics between the platforms for the sake of simplifying, so W3 on XBO should be 90%, but say 96% on X1X for the improvements. Assume some weird way to do it like that.
Price is probably a factor, if you can get it for free is certainly much more desirable than paying full price.
Playing with friends is a large factor for those of us that MP game.
 
Yea, I think let's simplify.
Score, Online/Social and Price is probably the largest determinant factors here.
Review Score should incorporate the differences in graphics between the platforms for the sake of simplifying, so W3 on XBO should be 90%, but say 96% on X1X for the improvements. Assume some weird way to do it like that.
Price is probably a factor, if you can get it for free is certainly much more desirable than paying full price.
Playing with friends is a large factor for those of us that MP game.

Having better version of game don't improve the quality of the game if the game is playable on the least good version and The Witcher 3 is playable and enjoyable on Xbox One... :D There is a things more important like gameplay, story, game design, level design or open world design...
 
Having better version of game don't improve the quality of the game... :D There is a things more important like gameplay, story, game design, level design or open world design...
you have to factor that into the model. The point of the model is to be able to model the various scenarios we are seeing. Not about picking a winner. But it should be able to easily represent what we've seen as well.

I'm not interested in dividing view points. More interested in getting people to come together to see how or why someone else would make the choices that they do. I think sales wise, there's more than enough stories to explain as to why PS4 would be ahead. Only Sony has not specifically stated the most important one that drove their sales. Strategies are forever shifting though, so perhaps that's changed.

tldr; if we could build a model that is reflective of the past, but somewhat forecast the future properly, then we did the right thing and we've moved into pure subjectivity.
 
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you have to factor that into the model. The point of the model is to be able to model the various scenarios we are seeing. Not about picking a winner. But it should be able to easily represent what we've seen as well.

I'm not interested in dividing view points. More interested in getting people to come together to see how or why someone else would make the choices that they do. I think sales wise, there's more than enough stories to explain as to why PS4 would be ahead. Only Sony has not specifically stated the most important one that drove their sales. Strategies are forever shifting though, so perhaps that's changed.

tldr; if we could build a model that is reflective of the past, but somewhat forecast the future properly, then we did the right thing and we've moved into pure subjectivity.

They will probably have multiple 10+ millions ltd games with Horizon Zero Dawn, UC4 and probably God of War and Spiderman... Halo 3 sold 13 millions and it was a huge title which help Xbox 360 sales... And it you think 10 millions is not many, how many PS4 version of multiplatform title sold more than Sony title or Halo 3 last generation. I don't know but it would be an interesting to know...

And title like Persona 5 or Ni no kuni or Nier automata don't do the same number but they are buy by another niche of gamer and it helps boosting the number of PS4...
 
No. I think the key messaging from me here is to not be dismissive of impact 3P titles. Think of a low probability situation where 3P titles are by far and large the most critically acclaimed titles year after year. It's part of the equation then right? Measuring the difference in titles you never intend to play is pointless. The focal point will then adjust to which console will provide those 3P experiences better right?
This should mirror year 1/2 of this generation in which Xbox had a great deal of a number of AAA exclusives in their launch window (Titanfall/Forza/Ryse... etc) and still largely failed to beat out PS4.

But it was an advantage... but it was not good enough to compensate a weaker hardware sold +100$.

An advantage doesn't necessarily allow you to win, at best it allows to avoid the worst possible scenario. Without these games, XB1 sales could have been even lower.

Anything that can make a difference compared to the concurrence is an advantage. It's as simple as that.

Some advantages are better than others, that's all.
 
But it was an advantage... but it was not good enough to compensate a weaker hardware sold +100$.

An advantage doesn't necessarily allow you to win, at best it allows to avoid the worst possible scenario. Without these games, XB1 sales could have been even lower.

Anything that can make a difference compared to the concurrence is an advantage. It's as simple as that.

Some advantages are better than others, that's all.
And this is what i want to be able to model.
 
And this is what i want to be able to model.

Honestly, the recipe is quite simple and is based on 3 basics : price, power, games.

You can also try to find success with innovative features, but it's more risky. One example is the Wii.

Another important factor is brand popularity.
 
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