Console design and manufacturing comparison - effective cooling yada yada *spawn

zed said:
I'm curious what 'non portable' devices have these?
Click to expand...
A quick survey of the living room:
  • MacMini - no external PSU.
  • iMac - no external PSU.
  • Ultra thin TV - no external PSU.
  • Surround sound system - no external PSU.
  • ASUS DSL modem/router/wifi hub - external PSU.
  • Sennhesier wireless headphones basestation - no external PSU.
  • PlayStation 2/3/4 - no external PSU.
  • Synology DS412+ 4 bay NAS - external PSU.
 
The external PSU has a few benefit for the manufacturer.
1. You can produce your console and sell it in every country. The PSU can be adapted to the countries needs (~230V europe, ....). The box is not affected by this
2. You can fast change the supplier of your PSUs
3. You can send a new PSU to the customer if it bricked (vs send in and repair the whole box)
4. The heat of the PSU does not affect the console
5. You can use cheaper parts e.g. because the parts don't need to fit into the small console case
 
Most devices have external transformers though. Very few have a straight cable directly to the device.

Obviously those devices are not full out PSUs but for the sake of having a unit outside the device as opposed to a straight cable it is equally as annoying to some people.
 
DSoup said:
MacBooks, laptops, phones and HDD enclosures are portable devices.
Click to expand...
=( but a lot of people leave the chargers plugged into the socket - at least in north america. Though I don't know if it's frowned upon in UK.

Anyway I think we're off topic.
MS continues to choose to keep it external for some reason. It's not like they don't know how to do place it into the same box.
 
iroboto said:
=( but a lot of people leave the chargers plugged into the socket - at least in north america. Though I don't know if it's frowned upon in UK
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you're getting at? Portable devices typically do have an external PSU because it's not desirable to build it into the device, that's why zed asked: I'm curious what 'non portable' devices have these?
 
DSoup said:
I don't understand what you're getting at? Portable devices typically do have an external PSU because it's not desirable to build it into the device, that's why zed asked: I'm curious what 'non portable' devices have these?
Click to expand...
usually just cheaper electronics. is this what you wanted me to say? argggg fine you have it!:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Anyway since we're on the topic: Lets see what MS is doing here
 
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zed said:
I'm curious what 'non portable' devices have these?
I don't follow electronics now for many years (no stereo/TV/dvd player etc for >10 years) but from memory in the old days they didnt, have these devices become so 'thin' today that they commonly need external PSU's?
Click to expand...

There are desktop PCs, monitors, external HDs and even small TVs that come with power packs or wall warts.

Its not just portable devices that want to be smaller or thinner.
 
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I think the external power supply is to fast track the worldwide certification process. The third party power supply is already tested and approved by all countries. So the console can have any number of iterations without having to go through a recertification for an electrical appliance (safety, grounding, shielding, failure modes). The console itself only has to pass the FCC and stuff. The electrical safety liability for the device stops at the power supply. At this power level, it also produces a lot of EMI interference so it's not that easy to integrate.

OTOH, the reason to have a cheap fan in an external power supply is less excusable. They saved something like $5 of additional aluminum, or maybe $10 for a power supply efficient enough not to need a fan nor a bigger heat sink?
 
In the living room, pretty much everything has an internal PSU. The only exception in my place is the Wifi router. The tangle of power cables is manageable behind furniture, but I'd hate to have to manage an external PSU for every device. Either they'd have trouble fitting next to each other in the 4-way adaptor, or have leads to PSUs to leads to devices and need the devices to be hidden behind some larger space, stacked on top of each other, or whatever.

Internal is definitely neater and more convenient from a consumer POV. The added cost is probably worth it from that perspective. That's possibly why Sony went that way as a CE company, only moving to an external brick in their consoles when the device becomes slim and cheap and is more targeted at the toy end of the market.
 
Allandor said:
The external PSU has a few benefit for the manufacturer.
1. You can produce your console and sell it in every country. The PSU can be adapted to the countries needs (~230V europe, ....). The box is not affected by this
2. You can fast change the supplier of your PSUs
3. You can send a new PSU to the customer if it bricked (vs send in and repair the whole box)
4. The heat of the PSU does not affect the console
5. You can use cheaper parts e.g. because the parts don't need to fit into the small console case
Click to expand...
1. multivoltage. Any PS3, PS4 work anywhere in the world (you need new PSU for xbone).
2. Same could be done with internal.
3. Do not companies still require full set? How would you know that just PSU fried?
4. External PSU needs own cooling.
5. External PSU adds more constant costs (case, cable, connectors, assembly, fan) Manufacturer has to use cheaper components.
 
The WiiU has 2 bricks. One for the console and one for the gamepad . Even my horizon box has an external PSU. Nothin unusual so far for the living room
 
Rikimaru said:
1. multivoltage. PS3, PS4 work anywhere in the world (you need new PSU for xbone).
2. Same could be done with internal.
3. Do not companies still require full set? How would you know that just PSU fried?
4. External PSU needs own cooling.
5. External PSU adds more constant costs (case, cable, connectors, assembly, fan) Manufacturer has to use cheaper components.
Click to expand...
That multivoltage might be true, but your power supply had to be more complex. Also not every country has the same power plug (yes, I know, the plug is replaceable, too but you can use parts that are certified in that country you are selling).
Also an external power supply should be cheaper because it just doesn't need to be so small. You can use PSUs of mass production and don't need any special parts. So it can be cheaper ... mustn't, but can.
 
Most external PSUs are basic AC to DC converters and regulators and this is pretty simply electronics. I can't fathom what Microsoft have in the Xbox One's PSU or why they felt the need to engineer a propriety connector for the DC cable. It's genuinely mystifying.
 
Both power supplies are mass produced, they seem to be OEM by Delta.

The choice of an external power supply at this power level must be more expensive. It needs a power cable and connector, additional case and fan, and if you look at the XB1 board, there's a ton of additional power regulation necessary because the power arrives very dirty and cannot handle quick transients. That is not the case with the PS4, power arrives clean and you can see the motherboard have nothing there, the 12V goes directly to each VRMs.

I would even conjecture that the weird mess under the SoC is somehow related to the power being external and so difficult to clean up. But that's a wild guess.
 
Allandor said:
That multivoltage might be true, but your power supply had to be more complex. Also not every country has the same power plug (yes, I know, the plug is replaceable, too but you can use parts that are certified in that country you are selling).
Also an external power supply should be cheaper because it just doesn't need to be so small. You can use PSUs of mass production and don't need any special parts. So it can be cheaper ... mustn't, but can.
Click to expand...
Almost any cheap mobile charger now is multivoltage.
Power connector for cable is universal.
PS4 PSU looks bigger than xbone's to me. https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/aDjJIaR6Gea2fYR6.huge

DSoup said:
Most external PSUs are basic AC to DC converters and regulators and this is pretty simply electronics. I can't fathom what Microsoft have in the Xbox One's PSU or why they felt the need to engineer a propriety connector for the DC cable. It's genuinely mystifying.
Click to expand...
12 Volts 18 Amperes. 5V 1A.
 
DSoup said:
A quick survey of the living room:
  • MacMini - no external PSU.
  • iMac - no external PSU.
  • Ultra thin TV - no external PSU.
  • Surround sound system - no external PSU.
  • ASUS DSL modem/router/wifi hub - external PSU.
  • Sennhesier wireless headphones basestation - no external PSU.
  • PlayStation 2/3/4 - no external PSU.
  • Synology DS412+ 4 bay NAS - external PSU.
Click to expand...
ta, I had a look I've got the wifi also (wonder why, does it interfere somehow?), audio interface (I assume for PSU vs sound interference rightly or wrongly but audio ppl tend to be anal about this) yes I used to have a mac mini & no external PSU but everything fits in, which shows adding it internally aint gonna make a machine huge
 
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