CES 2006 News & Announcements

[AlphaWolf]

Well, have their models been announced yet? That's what I'm asking here. Like prototype drives on display.

Yes, Sanyo had one at CES 2005 ( a mockup no doubt).

 

[aaronspink]

According to the BD technical white papers the supported video streams are SMPTE VC-1, MPEG-4 AVC and MPEG-2. Supported video formats are:

HD
1920x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9)
1920x1080x24-p, 23.976-p (16.9)

So much for 1080P. Looks like it is limited to 24 FPS which means that the 1080i format is actually the higher bandwidth/higher information format. BR 1080i format is likely going to be much better for motion.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

 

[Carl B]

Yes, Sanyo had one at CES 2005 ( a mockup no doubt).

Ok cool. Knew they had a player, didn't realize they had a drive also.

 

[ROG27]

So much for 1080P. Looks like it is limited to 24 FPS which means that the 1080i format is actually the higher bandwidth/higher information format. BR 1080i format is likely going to be much better for motion.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

There is nothing wrong with watching a movie at 24 fps...It's the native rate at which the movie is captured, isn't it?

If they are recorded at that rate then what is the use of upscaling the number of frames per second?

 

[ihamoitc2005]

60fps

There is nothing wrong with watching a movie at 24 fps...It's the native rate at which the movie is captured, isn't it?

If they are recorded at that rate then what is the use of upscaling the number of frames per second?

If drive speed and disc capacity is more (more layers/side) than what is now made then 60fps 1080P no problem and studios will make movies for this.

 

[Carl B]

Well, the PS3 demo was supposedly outputting 1080p@60fps, so somethings going on somewhere.

 

[Titanio]

Well, the PS3 demo was supposedly outputting 1080p@60fps, so somethings going on somewhere.

And I'm sure it was. But 1080p content will likely be authored at 24fps. Which I'd take any day over an interlaced picture, given the choice..

 

[aaronspink]

If drive speed and disc capacity is more (more layers/side) than what is now made then 60fps 1080P no problem and studios will make movies for this.

Only with a different revision of the BR specification and leaving all the early adopters behind.

 

[aaronspink]

And I'm sure it was. But 1080p content will likely be authored at 24fps. Which I'd take any day over an interlaced picture, given the choice..

For things like sports/action, it is likely that 1080i @ 60 Hz will be better than 1080p @ 24 Hz.

For dramas and the like with no real fast movement, 1080i @60 Hz and 1080P @ 24 Hz will be equivelent.

Given equal frame rates, I'd take 1080p over 1080i as well, but we are dealing with a 1080i frame rate 2.5 times higher than the 1080p frame rate.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

 

[Titanio]

For things like sports/action, it is likely that 1080i @ 60 Hz will be better than 1080p @ 24 Hz.

For dramas and the like with no real fast movement, 1080i @60 Hz and 1080P @ 24 Hz will be equivelent.

Given equal frame rates, I'd take 1080p over 1080i as well, but we are dealing with a 1080i frame rate 2.5 times higher than the 1080p frame rate.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

I was thinking just of movie content. One of the points made about the usefulness of 1080p/60 was that source content simply wouldn't be there for it in any great numbers, for now anyway, given that most movies are shot at 24fps. So I don't think you're going to get anything more out of simply a higher refresh rate on 1080i, given that the film speed is still 24fps. And the picture is still interlaced. I'd take the progressive, for movie content, easily, unless I'm misunderstanding something..

If more content starts being shot at 60fps, I'm sure you'll see 1080p/60 becoming part of the standard, and we know PS3, at least, can support it. A software update would be all that's required in that instance.

edit - I've done a little checking, and as far as I can tell nearly all movies out there are 24fps. For formats with a higher refresh rates, pulldown is used to convert them to higher fps, but you're not getting any more information or picture for your money. 1080p/24 will give you as much "information" as 1080i/60, but as a progressive image. Seems like an easy choice.

 

[weaksauce]

Would a 2h movie in 1080p at 60fps on mpeg2 really fit on a BD?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Would a 2h movie in 1080p at 60fps on mpeg2 really fit on a BD?

Apparently 1080p is only 24 fps, so the question's purely hypothetical (if I'm understanding this right)

 

[AlphaWolf]

Would a 2h movie in 1080p at 60fps on mpeg2 really fit on a BD?

At what bitrate? You can always make it fit, but that does defeat the purpose of having a higher resolution.

 

[ban25]

edit - I've done a little checking, and as far as I can tell nearly all movies out there are 24fps. So 1080p/24 will give you as much "information" as 1080i/60, but as a progressive image. Seems like an easy choice.

I imagine film is going to be 24 fps and broadcast TV will mostly be 29.97.

 

[MrWibble]

Apparently 1080p is only 24 fps, so the question's purely hypothetical (if I'm understanding this right)

1080p is just a resolution. Displays tend to be 50 or 59.94 - though other rates may be possible. Source material could be just about anything but may be restricted in terms of what can be encoded and stored/broadcast: movies are likely to be 24fps, video sources could be 25, 29.97, 50, 59.94.

 

[ROG27]

I was thinking just of movie content. One of the points made about the usefulness of 1080p/60 was that source content simply wouldn't be there for it in any great numbers, for now anyway, given that most movies are shot at 24fps. So I don't think you're going to get anything more out of simply a higher refresh rate on 1080i, given that the film speed is still 24fps. And the picture is still interlaced. I'd take the progressive, for movie content, easily, unless I'm misunderstanding something..

If more content starts being shot at 60fps, I'm sure you'll see 1080p/60 becoming part of the standard, and we know PS3, at least, can support it.

edit - I've done a little checking, and as far as I can tell nearly all movies out there are 24fps. For formats with a higher refresh rates, pulldown is used to convert them to higher fps, but you're not getting any more information or picture for your money. 1080p/24 will give you as much "information" as 1080i/60, but as a progressive image. Seems like an easy choice.

I just said the same thing.

 

[Titanio]

I imagine film is going to be 24 fps and broadcast TV will mostly be 29.97.

True, for TV, sports etc. framerates may differ. But since we're talking about playback from a movie player..the higher refresh rate of 1080i doesn't offer any advantages in nearly all cases.

I just said the same thing.

Sorry! Missed the post :|

 

[MasaC]

The pdf I linked to is the white paper to authoring video streams on the Blu-ray discs. This is to ensure all BD-players can play them. The video output from the players themselves is not bound by this white paper. It's just what kind of video formats that shall be authored onto the discs.

You all know movies are shot in 24 fps so 1920x1080x24-p will give the same experience as in the movie theatres, framerate-wise.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The pdf I linked to is the white paper to authoring video streams on the Blu-ray discs. This is to ensure all BD-players can play them. The video output from the players themselves is not bound by this white paper. It's just what kind of video formats that shall be authored onto the discs.

You all know movies are shot in 24 fps so 1920x1080x24-p will give the same experience as in the movie theatres, framerate-wise.

Will the BluRay standard be extendible to new progressive formats such as 1080p/30 or 1080p/60 should content become available, and presumably if so older BRD drives won't support these standards, so might compatibility see BRD fixed at 1080p/24 indefinitely?

 

[wco81]

Some good in-person impressions of the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD demos:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6866449&&#post6866449