Business aspects of Subscription Game Libraries [Xbox GamePass, PSNow]

[orangpelupa]

Did you use your Rewards points to get the subscription?

A week or so I cashed in $90 worth points to get 1 year & 4 months worth of Game Pass Ultimate.

I'm already back up over 8300 points or $10 with the Hot Deal going on.

Tommy McClain

I dont think i can use the points as im not in the US. Same with sony reward point.

Nintendo point works just fine tho

 

[AzBat]

I dont think i can use the points as im not in the US. Same with sony reward point.

Nintendo point works just fine tho

Ahh. Go here to see if you can redeem the Rewards Points for Xbox Gift Cards...

https://account.microsoft.com/rewards/redeem/shop

Not sure how it works outside the US, but right now they have a Hot Deal(4000 points for $5 & 8000 points for $10). That's 20% off the regular price(5000 & 10000 respectively).

You can use the Xbox gift cards to purchase Live Gold, Game Pass or Game Pass Ultimate. If you don't already have Game Pass then use the gift cards to buy as much Live Gold as you can & then use the $1 Game Pass Ultimate promo to convert all of your Live Gold subscription 1:1.

BTW, Xbox Gift Cards have to be redeemed within 90 days of deposit or you lose them.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not sure how it works outside the US, but right now they have a Hot Deal(4000 points for $5 & 8000 points for $10). That's 20% off the regular price(5000 & 10000 respectively).

It's also 20% off in the UK, although pricing is different at 1000 points per £.

Game Pass Ultimate is 12,000 points for a month, or 35,000 for 3 months.
3 months Live Gold is 15,000 points or £18, so it's cheaper to buy with Rewards directly than rewards > credit > Live Gold
£50 for a year's Live Gold, so 50,000 points with the current deal. I'm half that at 25,000. It's certainly possible to pay your Gold sub through just 3 minutes Bing abuse each day.

 

[AzBat]

It's also 20% off in the UK, although pricing is different at 1000 points per £.

Game Pass Ultimate is 12,000 points for a month, or 35,000 for 3 months.
3 months Live Gold is 15,000 points or £18, so it's cheaper to buy with Rewards directly than rewards > credit > Live Gold
£50 for a year's Live Gold, so 50,000 points with the current deal. I'm half that at 25,000. It's certainly possible to pay your Gold sub through just 3 minutes Bing abuse each day.

Interesting to see how it works in the UK.

Yeah, I do Bing searches & get the basic 350 points a day, but if you make Bing your default search engine you can get a 500 point bonus & then double search points for mobile(300 vs 150). Then if you do all the new Game Pass Quests & the Rewards app on the console you can get over 550 points a day. Also don't forget that you get bonus points for Bing Daily set streaks. I have a 143 day streak currently. I will get a 150 point bonus for a 144 day streak. There's a weekly streak on the Rewards app on the console too. I think I'm at 17 weeks there. I get a 2000 point bonus @ 20 weeks. All of those bonus points for streaks can be had without spending money or having any Xbox subscriptions.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't get on with Bing results so won't use it as my search engine of choice. Currently planting trees with Ecosia, and falling back to Google when needed. I just accrue points by firing up Bing from the Win 10 home page (click the info box and get taken to a Bing search result) and then spam searches from links in the results, so typically 15 thumbnails for World Heritage Sites. Then fire up the Rewards site and do the 30 point quiz, following whatever quick searches I can do from there (such as clicking through movie titles or actors). On a bad day, there's no quick links so I'll do an image search and whizz through similar searches. Finish off with the various 10 pointers which involve opening a website and ignoring its contents.

I reckon it's about 3 minutes with one's morning cuppa. 90 points for the browser searches, 30 for the quiz, 10 for the poll, and perhaps an additional 20-30, so 150 a day. Then whatever streak I get. 150 a day is 4500 a month, 13500 for three months. Plus the bonuses, Live Gold would be covered for the year. Though to date I've barely touched the XB1. I should do Live Gold just to accrue the Games With Gold library, but I don't play games all that much these days.

 

[orangpelupa]

Ahh. Go here to see if you can redeem the Rewards Points for Xbox Gift Cards...

https://account.microsoft.com/rewards/redeem/shop

Not sure how it works outside the US, but right now they have a Hot Deal(4000 points for $5 & 8000 points for $10). That's 20% off the regular price(5000 & 10000 respectively).

You can use the Xbox gift cards to purchase Live Gold, Game Pass or Game Pass Ultimate. If you don't already have Game Pass then use the gift cards to buy as much Live Gold as you can & then use the $1 Game Pass Ultimate promo to convert all of your Live Gold subscription 1:1.

BTW, Xbox Gift Cards have to be redeemed within 90 days of deposit or you lose them.

Tommy McClain

Microsoft Rewards is not available in this country or region.
Sorry, Microsoft Rewards is currently only available in the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Republic of Ireland, Brazil, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Hong Kong SAR, Japan, Mexico and Taiwan.

 

[AzBat]

Microsoft Rewards is not available in this country or region.
Sorry, Microsoft Rewards is currently only available in the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Republic of Ireland, Brazil, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Hong Kong SAR, Japan, Mexico and Taiwan.

Bummer. Though I'm surprised they support that many countries.

Tommy McClain

 

[egoless]

Yup. Whether Game Pass good (or bad) for Microsoft should not factor into this for consumers. Even if this is not good for Microsoft, consumers would be silly to ignore it.

Agreed. I can't understand the relentless need to Microsoft fail at this. If only to spread FUD for your arch rival. If it succeeds(even if a little) then consumers win. Like I said before the rhetoric just screams anti-consumer to me.

Tommy McClain

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tommy McClain

I was a Zune Pass subscriber from the beginning. I was still a subscriber through all the pivots (rebranding, pricing, capabilities, etc). I am speaking from experience. Not FUD, not being purposely obtuse by saying things like "x doesn't interfere with y so why should you care", not being the contrarian for the sake of it poster.

As I've already stated before, Microsoft's actions speak louder than the PR (including specials and deals). Especially if you had any other consumer facing Microsoft hardware or software that you've fully supported, that integrated and worked well, but Microsoft has strung you along with for the short term then quickly axed it. Or they outright obliterated it under Satya's helm when it was time for reality to set in when the bill was due.

If it's a consumer product it already has a target on it. If it's also not doing gangbusters on its own without incentives, that's the second strike. And if there's sustained pushback from consumers for reasons, they'll just jettison it. Again, just look at the scorched Earth of consumer sw/hw in Satya's wake.

Game Pass is riding now on what can't be sustainable as reasons mentioned in previous posts. Just like Zune Pass if the moviepass example is so offensive to some.

By the way, having supported Microsoft hw/sw for so long as an avid user, I am a Game Pass Ultimate subscriber. I use the massive amount of points amassed through Microsoft Rewards since its inception. I have had 3 years of Gold always stacked through rewards, and it's all converted to Ultimate with the initial $1 Ultimate deal. If it fails, I'm not left high and dry like I was with everything else Microsoft killed off that I'd invested in. Yeah that doesn't affect you who are just around when you're getting "free" stuff. The rest are definitely affected, and accordingly, invest elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

if true that's a fairly large number of studios they have to make content each year for XGP. I haven’t really played much of their games so I’m not sure what to expect. But talent is limited out there so I suppose this was a big get for them. If true

Me either, but Rocksteady (the Arkham trilogy) and arguably Avalanche Software (Cars, Disney Infinity) and not to be confused with Avalanche Studios (Just Cause, Mad Max) have solid AA/AAA pedigrees.

If true, this is a good acquisition for Microsoft. I can see them wanting to improve the value of GamePass but the issue with GamePass is that third-party AA/AAA games don't usually appear it at launch. Boosting their studio output will be akin to Netflix with their Netflix Originals productions, i.e. not only are you offering third party stuff which is not always new, you're augmenting it with a steady stream of content you make yourself.

I'm still fuzzy on the economics model of GamePass and how Microsoft will recoup development costs of more AA/AAA games that released through it day one. Even non-regular subscribers will surely use GamePass to play new AA/AAA Microsoft games from for one month's worth of subscription but then you're giving up millions of $59.99 new game sales. GamePass's financials have been a mystery since they launched it and there is no more clarity now than then. You have to assume Microsoft's bean counters know what they're doing by the desire to see the numbers is overwhemling.

 

[goonergaz]

Me either, but Rocksteady (the Arkham trilogy) and arguably Avalanche Software (Cars, Disney Infinity) and not to be confused with Avalanche Studios (Just Cause, Mad Max) have solid AA/AAA pedigrees.

If true, this is a good acquisition for Microsoft. I can see them wanting to improve the value of GamePass but the issue with GamePass is that third-party AA/AAA games don't usually appear it at launch. Boosting their studio output will be akin to Netflix with their Netflix Originals productions, i.e. not only are you offering third party stuff which is not always new, you're augmenting it with a steady stream of content you make yourself.

I'm still fuzzy on the economics model of GamePass and how Microsoft will recoup development costs of more AA/AAA games that released through it day one. Even non-regular subscribers will surely use GamePass to play new AA/AAA Microsoft games from for one month's worth of subscription but then you're giving up millions of $59.99 new game sales. GamePass's financials have been a mystery since they launched it and there is no more clarity now than then. You have to assume Microsoft's bean counters know what they're doing by the desire to see the numbers is overwhemling.

Just seems to me a way to get you into their ecosystem and then maybe things won’t be quite so generous? Let’s face it, at the start of a generation promise the earth then a couple years in reel it back it - but those in the system are trapped.

Seems no different to the PS+ free games scenario.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Just seems to me a way to get you into their ecosystem and then maybe things won’t be quite so generous? Let’s face it, at the start of a generation promise the earth then a couple years in reel it back it - but those in the system are trapped.

Business models have to change to adapt to changing situations but a multi-study acquisition would seem an expensive outlay just to trick people into the ecosystem if the intention is to de-value it down the line. GamePass is cheap to get month-to-month and user can bail out after four weeks. Sure, you lose all your games but that's the same with any subscription system.

I've not been a PSN subscriber for quite a while now but I recall that the number of 'free' (*not free) games that were own forever dwindled compare to games you only 'own' for as long as your subscribe to PSN.

 

[goonergaz]

Business models have to change to adapt to changing situations but a multi-study acquisition would seem an expensive outlay just to trick people into the ecosystem if the intention is to de-value it down the line. GamePass is cheap to get month-to-month and user can bail out after four weeks. Sure, you lose all your games but that's the same with any subscription system.

I've not been a PSN subscriber for quite a while now but I recall that the number of 'free' (*not free) games that were own forever dwindled compare to games you only 'own' for as long as your subscribe to PSN.

Once in the ecosystem it’s expensive to get out.

You have ‘instant access to over 100 games’ - so let’s say the games added become less enticing, well firstly you’re probably 1/3 through a game and play another online regular...so may as well keep the sub because next month might get better.

Of course I could stop subbing and buy those games for £40-50...but then what if I do that then game pass picks up again...argh, I’m stuck.

 

[BRiT]

Have some self control and you'll never be stuck.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Once in the ecosystem it’s expensive to get out.

The way I see it, you save money by not paying for a service which you assess offers no/little value. This is the same for every subscription service including Netflix. You have no control over what appears in them, when it appears or how long it'll remain in. I was a long-time subscriber to PlayStation Plus but quit it when I felt I wasn't getting sufficient value.

Have some self control and you'll never be stuck.

This. If you know what you want you'll never have a problem. I can see GamePass is insanely good value for some but not for me. I have so little playtime that when I do store it up for special occasions, I want to play something specific. As I said before, if I was 20-30 years younger GamePass would be right up my alley. It's great for people with more time than money and people who are less fussed what they play, they just want a big choice of fun stuff.

 

[Jay]

It's great for people with more time than money and people who are less fussed what they play, they just want a big choice of fun stuff.

Or for people like me who's older that don't play a lot, so can't justify buying games at all.

Gamepass works out very well, especially for the edge cases like me that fund it with ms rewards.

So gamepass can work up and down the spectrum, but in the end like paying gym membership that you never use, it's down to the individual to make the best decision and not just waste money.

 

[iroboto]

Games are now 79.99 in Canada
And wilL be 89.99 if the trend goes forward. Game pass if I paid full price is $11.99 a month. Or $144 a year. If I do ultimate it is $16.99 a month or $204 a year. Sort of a no brainer for me. If I were to buy 2 games per year it’s $180. Removal of the gold requirement puts Ultimate a bit on the higher side but I also get PC games as well.

so I save money and I get access to many more games than just 2. The only issue comes down to whether the game I want is in game pass. Overall it’s been positive.

 

[Jay]

With the price of games going up, I'd be surprised if they don't up the prices of these services also soon afterwards.

Best time, then it looks like they didn't really have a choice.

 

[BRiT]

It's in MS's interest to not price increase until super majority of games are the higher prices. Considering Game Pass is strong concentration of MS Published games and we have yet to see any of those announced at higher prices, I think it's best if they don't up the prices yet.

The only game I saw at the higher price was some mindless annual sports title, NBA 2K21.

https://www.polygon.com/2020/7/22/21334348/ubisoft-next-gen-xbox-series-x-ps5-game-pricing-60

Ubisoft says it won’t raise next-gen game prices (for now)
In contrast to 2K Games’ $69.99 NBA 2K21

Ubisoft will keep its same pricing strategy for its next-generation games coming this fall, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot said during an earnings call Wednesday. Video games released during the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 launch windows will remain $59.99 — at least, for now.

This is in contrast to a statement made by NBA 2K21 publisher 2K Games that its next-gen basketball game would cost $69.99, while the Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Windows PC, Nintendo Switch, and Google Stadia’s version will remain $59.99. 2K Games said that Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 players won’t get a free next-gen upgrade, like other publishers of cross-gen games are offering.

 

[Jay]

The only game I saw at the higher price was some mindless annual sports title, NBA 2K21.

Have to admit I was expecting most to follow suit.
Wonder how long it will take for significant amount to increase prices.

Although I did mean after games start to go up, I think most people would still see it as good deal even if they increased it now. (even though I don't think they should yet)

 

[eastmen]

just a heads up in the FY2020 Fourth Quarter Financial results they highlighted 100m xbox live players. I doubt they are going to get rid of the service. Also xbox conetent and services increased 65% yoy. Surface is also up 28% and M365 is up 3m to 42.7m users

142b quarter up 14% and 53b in operating income