Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

Well plugging anything into the X1 is a dubious proposition.

We'll see what the lure of voice is over the remote controls people have been using for decades.

But plug in other consoles? As opposed to plugging them in another input on the TV or the AVR?

Talk about daft.
Well, maybe I got it wrong. The point is that I am going to test it out of curiosity. The main advantage for me is that I could save some space without having to connect Kinect 1 for the Xbox 360.

The idea is to be able to chat with people and stuff using Xbox One without totally losing the functionality of the Xbox 360.

I am curious about this because I wonder if the Xbox 360 is going to be treated as "another device" in your HDMI In input or it can be controlled Teamviewer style.

This means that I wouldn't have to use the X360's gamepad either and I could play Xbox 360 utilising X1's gamepad.
 
The best option might be use the AR to connect to the XB1. Connect your Cable TV or Satellite set-top box & your Xbox 360 to the AR. Tell XB1 what set-top box you have so the XB1 IR blaster can change your channels, but use your Harmony or similar to control your 360 & receiver. This way your primary HDMI use is the TV, but your 360 gets the added benefit of working in overlay mode on the XB1 so you don't miss party invites & Skype messages. And yes, you would need separate Kinect & Xbox 360 controllers. Not a deal breaker for most.

Tommy McClain

This doesn't work unless you are satisfied with only getting your XBOne audio through the TV speakers.
 
The best option might be use the AR to connect to the XB1. Connect your Cable TV or Satellite set-top box & your Xbox 360 to the AR. Tell XB1 what set-top box you have so the XB1 IR blaster can change your channels, but use your Harmony or similar to control your 360 & receiver. This way your primary HDMI use is the TV, but your 360 gets the added benefit of working in overlay mode on the XB1 so you don't miss party invites & Skype messages. And yes, you would need separate Kinect & Xbox 360 controllers. Not a deal breaker for most.

Tommy McClain

Can the XB1 IR blaster also change between all the devices that are connected to the AR (console, laptop, TV, Tablet etc)? Wouldnt it also require that the XB1 is connected to the AR so that the AR outputs the (surround) sound from the XB1? If the AR is connected to the XB1 that means video/audio in. But where would the XB1's audio out go? In that case since the AR is set to display something else it wont be producing the audio output of the XB1 anywhere because it will be set to output whatever else you have set it to output.
The solution so far appears to be a device connected to the HDMI in for overlay, the TV to output the video and audio, but if you want the audio to be output from something else that will require another device. That means 4 devices all in all. 1)XB1 the primary output device, 2)TV for video, 3)Cable/Satellite box for channel overlay, 4)AR receiver/Home Theater for audio
 
This doesn't work unless you are satisfied with only getting your XBOne audio through the TV speakers.

Not necessarily true. Many receivers, including mine, which allow discrete switching of video sources only.

AzBat said:
The best option might be use the AR to connect to the XB1. Connect your Cable TV or Satellite set-top box & your Xbox 360 to the AR. Tell XB1 what set-top box you have so the XB1 IR blaster can change your channels, but use your Harmony or similar to control your 360 & receiver. This way your primary HDMI use is the TV, but your 360 gets the added benefit of working in overlay mode on the XB1 so you don't miss party invites & Skype messages. And yes, you would need separate Kinect & Xbox 360 controllers. Not a deal breaker for most.

The thing that sucks about this is the additional latency you incur on the X1 pass-thru for interactive devices like a 360. Not sure I could live with that lag.
 
Well, in my experience, with a HTPC, a 360, a PS3, and then my normal TV input all hooked up to my TV it takes forever my TV to switch back and forth between inputs.

The delay is simply longer than any commercial break, which is when I want to switch to the 360 to send a voice message or switch over to the HTPC to check the scores on NFL.com when waiting for the football game to come back on TV from a change of possession.

So if I do any of those things, I'll miss at least 1st down and probably 1st and 2nd down. What the One is offering is the ability to not even have to switch devices, to be able to do any of the above things all at once. That's a value added proposition.

I understand it may not be for everybody, but I think it will become a feature just like cross-game party chat was for Live. It will enhance the very experience of playing games because you don't have to pause, or pause and then wait for the game to reload, or wait for the tv to switch its input signal, etc.
 
This means that I wouldn't have to use the X360's gamepad either and I could play Xbox 360 utilising X1's gamepad.

I've read somewhere you would still need to use the 360 controller or remotes. Kinect One doesn't work on 360 either.

This doesn't work unless you are satisfied with only getting your XBOne audio through the TV speakers.

You could still use optical out to your receiver. Basically only use HDMI out for video.

Can the XB1 IR blaster also change between all the devices that are connected to the AR (console, laptop, TV, Tablet etc)?

I don't believe so. I was under the impression you could only control one set-top and TV. It should be able to control the receiver for the inputs & audio, but it wouldn't understand controlling multiple devices connected to it.

Wouldnt it also require that the XB1 is connected to the AR so that the AR outputs the (surround) sound from the XB1? If the AR is connected to the XB1 that means video/audio in. But where would the XB1's audio out go? In that case since the AR is set to display something else it wont be producing the audio output of the XB1 anywhere because it will be set to output whatever else you have set it to output.
The solution so far appears to be a device connected to the HDMI in for overlay, the TV to output the video and audio, but if you want the audio to be output from something else that will require another device. That means 4 devices all in all. 1)XB1 the primary output device, 2)TV for video, 3)Cable/Satellite box for channel overlay, 4)AR receiver/Home Theater for audio

That sounds about right. That's how I would probably have just for TV. 360 would be totally manual connection & like Rockster says it would add more lag by chaining it to the AR. Some uses will be fine, but I suspect multiplayer would be too much.

Tommy McClain
 
Well, in my experience, with a HTPC, a 360, a PS3, and then my normal TV input all hooked up to my TV it takes forever my TV to switch back and forth between inputs.

Seriously?

On my amplifier, source switching takes 2 seconds - and it's not even a common brand of which all do it in less than that. Pretty much every TV I've worked with does it in equal and at the very max 5 seconds to switch an input.

I honestly believe a lot of Xbox One buyers are in for a rude awakening when they get to try out their new xbox one and realize that all the brilliant ideas and features don't work as brilliant and flawless as expected. That most of the features through Kinect are nothing but a few existing features being offered in a more convinient way in some cases while less in others - but not actually offering something that wasn't possible before. Sure, especially in America, people might be more satisfied because the Box is focused on that market where many people do their switching on TVs instead of AVRs and most likely only have a single HDMI device hooked up to it (or have wifes that find it a struggle to switch between inputs).

Anyway, I am pretty sure that the success of the One's multimedia features are dependant on the success of it as a gaming device first. If it can't take off as a successfull game console with the gamers, then I see very limited success and market exposure for the other things it does right or shows potential.
 
Seriously?

On my amplifier, source switching takes 2 seconds - and it's not even a common brand of which all do it in less than that. Pretty much every TV I've worked with does it in equal and at the very max 5 seconds to switch an input.

I honestly believe a lot of Xbox One buyers are in for a rude awakening when they get to try out their new xbox one and realize that all the brilliant ideas and features don't work as brilliant and flawless as expected. That most of the features through Kinect are nothing but a few existing features being offered in a more convinient way in some cases while less in others - but not actually offering something that wasn't possible before. Sure, especially in America, people might be more satisfied because the Box is focused on that market where many people do their switching on TVs instead of AVRs and most likely only have a single HDMI device hooked up to it (or have wifes that find it a struggle to switch between inputs).

Anyway, I am pretty sure that the success of the One's multimedia features are dependant on the success of it as a gaming device first. If it can't take off as a successfull game console with the gamers, then I see very limited success and market exposure for the other things it does right or shows potential.

I don't understand what you are getting at. We've seen videos which show the interface working as expected. So your saying that even though it had those features which currently don't exist as completely and effortlessly as they do in the one - no jail breaking, no hacking, no configuration- that people shouldn't be excited?

Exactly who are you trying to convince here? Yourself?
 
I don't understand what you are getting at.

Sadly, I don't think we'll reach an agreement on this. Lets just say that despite all the videos outthere that portrait the Xbox One's TV switching and Kinect in a very good light - I'm sure that a lot of people are taking that and portraying their own expectations on to it.

I just see the appeal to be very limited in a practical sense. I'm not the first to argue in this very thread that only having one HDMI in and out is severly limiting the One's ability to become that "one device", the missing link. I'm sure that in a very limited context, the One will work very well. Kinect commands will work, TV switching, browsing all will be flawless - as long as you're using it in that very confined area.

But I'm also sure that in a practical sense, once you have it set-up in your livingroom, you'll most likely figure out, that while shouting commands at a peace of plastic might seem very cool at first, it still doesn't eliminate the need to keep your remote close by, or having to switch sources on your TV or your AVR, or that some of the 'revolutionary' features aren't all that revolutionary or even more convinient yet.

Sure it has a lot of potential and the tech is extremely impressive - I'm not arguing that. My point is rather, to become that "one device", it is simply not enough to do some things better. What's the point in using voice commands for your Xbox, if you still require a remote for that one device that can't be controlled by it? In this example; adding a Xbox hasn't eliminated the "old-age" tech - it just added another element of how to use an additional device in your livingroom. Or what good is that seemless switching, if you have 2 more devices that can't be hooked up to it, but have to be connected through your AVR or TV directly meaning there's no way to integrate them into this new way of controlling?

My bet is that the whole concept of using your voice to control everything will fall flat due to the simple things that won't work very well. If you can't replace your remote with your voice, it's probably more convinient to use your less convinient but more consistent experience traditional remote.

It's a bit like when the PS3 came out and for many of us - being able to use a browser on your TV screen was a something like a new revolutionary feature. Even with all its flaws, it was kind of cool to use it. Then eventually, the novelty wore off and we were back to using our old means of accessing the internet - either through a at the time 360x240 pixel smartphone or starting up your slow malware infected laptop. Why? Because in the end, we tend to prefer less convinient but more consistent experiences over inconsistent but more convinient ones.

I'm betting the Xbox One's experience will be pretty much the same. A lot of potential, but ultimately not really practical or consistant across the entire experience. It can't be your HDMI switch, because it has limited connectivity, either forcing you to exclude certain devices from the experience or hook it up in a way you'll lose sound through hdmi (no hi-res surround codecs). You won't be able to use your voice to control everything because it won't connect to everything - or there's a high likely hood you're connecting a device to it that has some features that aren't compatible. Even using an IR blaster (which I am not even sure is actually confirmed or supported and not some idea on how to solve the inherent problem) will not make it more convinient. IR blasters tend to be faulty and create a lot of lag - something that will ultimately hamper the experience to the point most people will be fed-up by it and wonder why not simply use the remote that has worked for years.
Little things, like Kinect not understanding every command (or having a rather high fault rate depending on your voice, the ambient noise, whatever) could quickly become a big nuisance.

Sure, for some people who have very limited set-up - one device, no AVR, and happy to use the One and its apps to connect to a wide range of services - I'm sure the machine will work just as intended. But I do question; from the majority of gamers that most likely happen to be technology-freaks (on some levels), how many of those do have such a limited environment?

All these reasons IMO make the One's TV functionality at best a "nice feature", but not a definining one. It means the Box will still be predominently bought by gamers (and judged by its gaming ability foremost) and less by technology-freaks that are less regular gamers (the crowd that buys expensive tablets and smartphones on a yearly basis).
 
Many people also like to be quiet when using their devices. Especially when I am home alone at night. Sure it creates shortcuts and its fast. It just doesnt feel right for everyone

We are accustomed to using voice to exchange communication with people and our hands to do things. Kinect asks you to use your voice to do things.

I come home from work or from the gym, or from some other place where I have spent too much energy and I just dont feel like I would want to say "XBOX do that", "XBOX do this".

There is a reason why men use very few words when their wives star asking questions when they return from work (which makes women paranoid and thing there is something wrong). And then you get one question after another as they want reassurance. And you just want it to stop.:p
 
Many people also like to be quiet when using their devices. Especially when I am home alone at night. Sure it creates shortcuts and its fast. It just doesnt feel right for everyone

We are accustomed to using voice to exchange communication with people and our hands to do things. Kinect asks you to use your voice to do things.

I come home from work or from the gym, or from some other place where I have spent too much energy and I just dont feel like I would want to say "XBOX do that", "XBOX do this".

There is a reason why men use very few words when their wives star asking questions when they return from work (which makes women paranoid and thing there is something wrong). And then you get one question after another as they want reassurance. And you just want it to stop.:p

Kinect likes when you can use your hands to... ;)
 
Sadly, I don't think we'll reach an agreement on this. Lets just say that despite all the videos outthere that portrait the Xbox One's TV switching and Kinect in a very good light - I'm sure that a lot of people are taking that and portraying their own expectations on to it.

I just see the appeal to be very limited in a practical sense. I'm not the first to argue in this very thread that only having one HDMI in and out is severly limiting the One's ability to become that "one device", the missing link. I'm sure that in a very limited context, the One will work very well. Kinect commands will work, TV switching, browsing all will be flawless - as long as you're using it in that very confined area.

But I'm also sure that in a practical sense, once you have it set-up in your livingroom, you'll most likely figure out, that while shouting commands at a peace of plastic might seem very cool at first, it still doesn't eliminate the need to keep your remote close by, or having to switch sources on your TV or your AVR, or that some of the 'revolutionary' features aren't all that revolutionary or even more convinient yet.

Sure it has a lot of potential and the tech is extremely impressive - I'm not arguing that. My point is rather, to become that "one device", it is simply not enough to do some things better. What's the point in using voice commands for your Xbox, if you still require a remote for that one device that can't be controlled by it? In this example; adding a Xbox hasn't eliminated the "old-age" tech - it just added another element of how to use an additional device in your livingroom. Or what good is that seemless switching, if you have 2 more devices that can't be hooked up to it, but have to be connected through your AVR or TV directly meaning there's no way to integrate them into this new way of controlling?

My bet is that the whole concept of using your voice to control everything will fall flat due to the simple things that won't work very well. If you can't replace your remote with your voice, it's probably more convinient to use your less convinient but more consistent experience traditional remote.

It's a bit like when the PS3 came out and for many of us - being able to use a browser on your TV screen was a something like a new revolutionary feature. Even with all its flaws, it was kind of cool to use it. Then eventually, the novelty wore off and we were back to using our old means of accessing the internet - either through a at the time 360x240 pixel smartphone or starting up your slow malware infected laptop. Why? Because in the end, we tend to prefer less convinient but more consistent experiences over inconsistent but more convinient ones.

I'm betting the Xbox One's experience will be pretty much the same. A lot of potential, but ultimately not really practical or consistant across the entire experience. It can't be your HDMI switch, because it has limited connectivity, either forcing you to exclude certain devices from the experience or hook it up in a way you'll lose sound through hdmi (no hi-res surround codecs). You won't be able to use your voice to control everything because it won't connect to everything - or there's a high likely hood you're connecting a device to it that has some features that aren't compatible. Even using an IR blaster (which I am not even sure is actually confirmed or supported and not some idea on how to solve the inherent problem) will not make it more convinient. IR blasters tend to be faulty and create a lot of lag - something that will ultimately hamper the experience to the point most people will be fed-up by it and wonder why not simply use the remote that has worked for years.
Little things, like Kinect not understanding every command (or having a rather high fault rate depending on your voice, the ambient noise, whatever) could quickly become a big nuisance.

Sure, for some people who have very limited set-up - one device, no AVR, and happy to use the One and its apps to connect to a wide range of services - I'm sure the machine will work just as intended. But I do question; from the majority of gamers that most likely happen to be technology-freaks (on some levels), how many of those do have such a limited environment?

All these reasons IMO make the One's TV functionality at best a "nice feature", but not a definining one. It means the Box will still be predominently bought by gamers (and judged by its gaming ability foremost) and less by technology-freaks that are less regular gamers (the crowd that buys expensive tablets and smartphones on a yearly basis).

The browser on the ps3 was a pile of shit. Using it was counter productive and it was clearly a check box item vs a fleshed out feature.

If Kinect 2.0 is handled similarly it'll suck just as much and serve no real world value.

Back to your browser example, Internet on the phones was a disaster until some company decide to actually focus on it and give the end user an experience that was a worthy rival to its desktop counterpart. Then the game changed. It wasn't perfect then and it's not perfect now but for majority of its user base it's good enough to keep using and coming back to.
 
The browser on the ps3 was a pile of shit. Using it was counter productive and it was clearly a check box item vs a fleshed out feature.

The browser was awesome. You could use it like a primitive media renderer! Instead of using dlna you could just serve your videos over http!
 
Takes less effort and less time using just my fingers ;)

Only when you have the controller in your hand.

The act of speaking isn't an arduous endeavor. And for the most part when a person doesn't want to talk, its not to avoid the act of speaking. Its to avoid the act of engaging in a conversation which requires a lot more than simply moving your lips and pushing out sounds.

If I am planning to sit down for a gaming session while enjoying a ham sandwich. I rather come down stairs and say "Xbox play GTA 5" as I pass through on my way to the kitchen. Make my sandwich and then sit down to Franklin, Michael or Trevor waiting for me to take control. Versus come downstairs, grab the controller, turn on the xbox, navigate through menus and then head to the kitchen to make a sandwich or the other way around.

As long as the Xbox 1 isn't forcing anyone into using Kinect for general navigation then you are free to use it in a way that fits your preference.

The act of speaking isn't a barrier its the frustration that stands in the way with most voice solutions. More people would know how to navigate through windows with just a keyboard if all mouses failed to register clicks and scrolls on a regular basis.

Basically most voice solutions are the equivalent of trying to use someone with less than a basic grasp of the language and "hard of hearing" to navigate your device for you.

"Huh? Can you say that again?"
"What? Pay Jorge?"
"Oh, you meant Play BluRay"

"Huh? Whats hellified?"
"Oh, you meant Halo 5!"
 
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The browser was awesome. You could use it like a primitive media renderer! Instead of using dlna you could just serve your videos over http!

It was probably important as a key step to port and optimize WebKit on PS3. All the modern apps on PS3 use WebKit. ^_^
 
Only when you have the controller in your hand.

The act of speaking isn't an arduous endeavor. And for the most part when a person doesn't want to talk, its not to avoid the act of speaking. Its to avoid the act of engaging in a conversation which requires a lot more than simply moving your lips and pushing out sounds.

If I am planning to sit down for a gaming session while enjoying a ham sandwich. I rather come down stairs and say "Xbox play GTA 5" as I pass through on my way to the kitchen. Make my sandwich and then sit down to Franklin, Michael or Trevor waiting for me to take control. Versus come downstairs, grab the controller, turn on the xbox, navigate through menus and then head to the kitchen to make a sandwich or the other way around.

As long as the Xbox 1 isn't forcing anyone into using Kinect for general navigation then you are free to use it in a way that fits your preference.

The act of speaking isn't a barrier its the frustration that stands in the way with most voice solutions. More people would know how to navigate through windows with just a keyboard if all mouses failed to register clicks and scrolls on a regular basis.

Basically most voice solutions are the equivalent of trying to use someone with less than a basic grasp of the language and "hard of hearing" to navigate your device for you.

"Huh? Can you say that again?"
"What? Pay Jorge?"
"Oh, you meant Play BluRay"

"Huh? Whats hellified?"
"Oh, you meant Halo 5!"

the people who have conducted the demos say that voice allows you to basiclly skip navigation of menu screens.

Thats awesome instead of ".." back through some tree to apps, videos or other games.

PS4 camera doesnt do this nearly as well yet but im sure they are working on it. Right now it does do visual/audio login and as long as the object you want to initiate in on the same menu that you are looking at it can start it.
 
Button presses are 100%, voice can be high, but even that 5% error rate will drive people nuts. Certain words and phrases in context are very high, like numbers when the system is expecting a number. "Play <game>" should be highly successful too since there are only specific games installed and ready to play. "Bing <phrase>" will be much more problematic as most have seen on smart phones.

Give me a quick menu to most recent apps and I will be faster than anyone talking to any system. It is a lot like smart phones, most the newer ones support voice for a whole slew of features, but most of us navigate and type with our fingers still. It is less error prone and less embarrassing. I know when I'm gaming I don't want my chat buddy, wife or kids hearing me give navigation commands to my console. It might be fun to show off to Grandma though.
 
Only when you have the controller in your hand.
Yes. I am a gamer.

The act of speaking isn't an arduous endeavor. And for the most part when a person doesn't want to talk, its not to avoid the act of speaking. Its to avoid the act of engaging in a conversation which requires a lot more than simply moving your lips and pushing out sounds.
Doesnt matter. I know how I was feeling when I was using my Kinect on the 360. And it wasnt just about the implementation. I didnt feel like it.

If I am planning to sit down for a gaming session while enjoying a ham sandwich. I rather come down stairs and say "Xbox play GTA 5" as I pass through on my way to the kitchen. Make my sandwich and then sit down to Franklin, Michael or Trevor waiting for me to take control. Versus come downstairs, grab the controller, turn on the xbox, navigate through menus and then head to the kitchen to make a sandwich or the other way around.
When I am chewing my ham sandwich I dont talk. And also, I dont make sandwiches too often.

The same arguments were used for the 360 just as passionately both for voice commands implemented in games and control of the dashboard. We saw how people defended it in forums. Reality has shown a different story though
As long as the Xbox 1 isn't forcing anyone into using Kinect for general navigation then you are free to use it in a way that fits your preference.

The act of speaking isn't a barrier its the frustration that stands in the way with most voice solutions. More people would know how to navigate through windows with just a keyboard if all mouses failed to register clicks and scrolls on a regular basis.

Basically most voice solutions are the equivalent of trying to use someone with less than a basic grasp of the language and "hard of hearing" to navigate your device for you.

"Huh? Can you say that again?"
"What? Pay Jorge?"
"Oh, you meant Play BluRay"

"Huh? Whats hellified?"
"Oh, you meant Halo 5!"

The point is that its not something very intuitive to do for everyone. A use here and there may find its way. But thats far from being a constant highlight.
(Actually what would work better for most people I think is a tablet connected to display the XB1 menu and control it with touch)
 
(Actually what would work better for most people I think is a tablet connected to display the XB1 menu and control it with touch)

There's Smartglass for that. That's the great thing about theses devices. We have lots of choices. Yay for us! :)

Tommy McClain
 
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