Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, May 21, 2013.

  1. Brad Grenz

    Brad Grenz Philosopher & Poet
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    If Amazon is as aggressive with their PSN code pricing as they are with Steam codes that will be a boon for all.
     
  2. Mianca

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    Admirable timing by Sony.

    They seem really determined to maximize the impact of their launch.

    Wouldn't be surprised if they had some more aces up their sleeve for the next few days. Their marketing team definitely shifted up some gears in 2013.
     
  3. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    This is not proof at all that the majority of people use AVR's and the XB1 is far from being an AVR replacement. AVR's are products that attract the consumer that are accustomed to using multiple devices (Usually the tech savvy customer). Multiple as in not just 2. Check the inputs of an AVR and then check what the XB1 has. Surprised? Being the knowledgeable consumer that you are, you should have been the first to aknowledge that. In addition the XB1 needs to be plugged in to a device that produces surround. In other words you cant opt away from it with the XB1. You still need it

    Holy chopped posts batman. Well my apologies for missing that

    You are judging based on yourself. How about the average joe who faces a $500 price tag, the guy who wants to have as less devices as possible, the gamer and others?

    Yes. Its called MS and those that are convinced by their press conferences and press releases. That includes those that used the argument in these forums that the TVphile is more important than than the gamer which Sony targets. Newsflash Sony also wants the same thing. They are following the path from another route
    See above. In addition there are millions that arent using cable/satellite box. You ignore those. People like me. If the XB1 could get TV input without the need of cable box I would have been more likely to purchase it. Make that a tenthfold more likely. Now I know it comes at a more expensive price tag, it made a sacrifice on performance for something else, and I know that it is highly likely it may not require a separate box in the future and that may include competition. This motivates me to wait because what it offers is not accessibility to something that nobody had. It offers just an extra convenience which for many is not worth $500
    Have you ever wondered that you are doing the same thing? How many non-gamer average joes, including cable/satellite owners and non cable/satellite owners are willing to jump ship because of HDMI IN? Show me the statistics. You are making a judgement using yourself, a tech savvi consumer, and those who post in these forums as a sample. Its the same as using the gaming forums as a sample to prove that there is no appeal on the XB1.

    The former is most likely the largest group which belongs to the existing group. This contradicts the argument that any use that its the non-gamer the biggest target. The latter is part of the group you call "smaller". The latter will start jump shipping when the product will becoming cheaper. By then, there will be more alternatives.
    What you dont mention is that what MS does is a bet. Not a guaranteed success
    Yes when a product matures a larger group of people will jump in. But there is also the competition that eats from the same pie.

    Its actually very possible to predict that they will both be evolving towards satisfying and attracting the market where they see there is demand and customer reaction. They need to maintain competitiveness and none is willing to give away from their share of the pie when its threatened and neither would let the opportunity to slip away to increase that piece of the pie. If MS's bet brings the fruit, it will be seen both as a thread and an opportunity. Its how competition works. The past has shown this.
     
  4. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Why? The overlay should only be present when you are actually using the XBOne for something or when a notification came in which you would want to happen. When you are manipulating the DVR through it's own interface it wouldn't be any more intrusive then it is when you are just normally watching TV.


    Right. So I don't think they will. The fact that the XBOne doesn't have two-way communication with the DVR means that they won't really be able to allow you to select recordings to view using their interface, and if you can't do something as basic as that, why bother at all?

    What about them?

    I assume they'll advertise them where they are relevant.

    Cable companies here are moving away from offering recording to a local box towards offering recording on their servers instead. Couple this model with a dedicated app that allows you to stream live TV as well as your recordings to the XBOne and all the problems go away. I expect it will take some time to get there, though.
     
  5. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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  6. warb

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    MS knocked 40% off their XBL sub renewal. I don't know how long that offer lasts, but they got me with it.
     
  7. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Interesting poll from one of Sweden's largest hardware enthusiast websites: Sony aims to sell 3 million PS4s before end of year

    Question: are you planning to buy a new games console?
    With almost 1500 votes, the results were
    PS4: 45.4%
    Xbone: 4.8%
    WiiU: 2.2%

    Of course, the fact that xbone still has no announced release date over here may factor into this quite heavily... Still, it will be interesting to analyze in the coming months how much - or if any - MS was hurt long-term over their decision to pull many first-wave countries from their release schedule.
     
  8. joker454

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    Had some shoots yesterday so I'm late to reply to this, but it of course doesn't have to be a tv signal that goes into that hdmi in. It can be a laptop, tablet, Apple TV, video camera, phone, Google Chromecast, or anything that puts out video via hdmi. I figured that was self evident, but perhaps not. Ultimately it's difficult to explain the benefits of simplifying and unifying ones setup to forum type audiences because they typically are used to bad ui's, incomplete/poor implementations, programming expensive universal remotes and so on so it will always come across as "meh" to them. You can just look back and live vs psn for proof of that, where no matter how bad, incomplete, inconsistent and limited psn was you had many here that didn't care and just tolerated it, and deemed it equivalent to live. This type of audience will never understand what Microsoft is trying to do so it will likely never be possible to explain it to them, just like it was impossible explaining to them how the Wii had a market many years ago. We'll just have to sit back and see if Microsoft can grab this other large audience of people that wants a different experience as to what is considered status quo in the tv room.
     
  9. temesgen

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    This is correct, to get 5.1, 7.1, 7.2 etc you need a receiver the XB1 does not change that.
     
  10. -tkf-

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    There is plenty of Boxes that can do something similar here including some that includes the needed Card Reader for decryption and PVR. But that is hardly they point is it? I purchase a XB1 and then i buy the needed gear to get it working with over lay.. i don't think it's an option for what is offered (i might be one of those that tried of course).
     
  11. -tkf-

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    Why would i want to put my Chrometab onto my XBOX? Actually why would put anything in there that doesn't support the IR blaster?

    And the reason it's hard to explain "the benefits of simplifying and unifying ones setup to forum type audiences" is pretty simple. The benefits are not great, they are actually pretty hard to find unless you fit into the neat little box Microsoft build this for. Because the XB1 doesn't unify anything besides TV and Games in a limited number of cases.

    As for the rest of your post, did the shots come out bad since you had to go back in history and get something of your chest? :)
     
  12. joker454

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    See, you made my point for me once...


    ...and make that twice.


    Nah the shoot was great, the red heads were amazing :) In this case it took me looking into the past to realize why many here will simply never get it. That's where history can be invaluable. It let me realize that if people couldn't see the difference between psn and live when it came to unification, simplification, features, functionality, etc, then they would simply never understand what Microsoft is trying to do now. It's not meant to be condescending, it just is what it is. It would be like a girl trying to explain to my why the 5 purses on one shelf are completely different from the 5 purses on another shelf in a Coach store. It doesn't matter how much time she takes to explain it to me, she is wasting her time as I'll simply never understand it. Same thing here, which is something forum history can show us. It's not worth the cycles, best to just let it all play out then just like with the Wii people can say "I told you so" while others scratch their head in confusion wondering why anyone would ever want/use/value such a thing.
     
  13. -tkf-

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    You may not mean it to be condescending but it sure as hell reads like that. Give it a shot, tell me why i should put my chrometab into my XB1. We agree on red hairs, so why shouldn't you be able to learn my something.
     
  14. RobertR1

    RobertR1 Pro
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    People post not to learn but argue and harden their own stance. For every 50 debates on you engage on the internet, you might be luckily to find 1 in which both parties are doing anything but hearing the sound of their own voice.

    Consumer are amazing at being reluctant to change. I guess it's a roundabout way of having to admit their way might be the best foot forward.

    I rather companies take a chance to attempt a paradigm shift than take the safe route for another rinse and repeat session.
     
  15. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I can see value added by the Xbox One to a TV signal - if you have something to connect to it and live in a region that Microsoft will support.

    But for the rest?

    Connected to my TV is a PS3 and a MacMini running XBMC (and a bunch of other stuff). Even with a basic two-box setup an Xbox One can't unify my inputs.

    Perhaps the difficulty you're having explaining the benefits here are because that for many people, this is a solution to a non-problem. And only a partial solution at that. What about people with more than one device where they can't be chained to One's HDMI IN?

    Now I can certainly see the appeal of replacing poor device UI with a better one, particularly for things like multi-tuner DVRs, or plain old single-tuner DVR boxes, but Xbox One isn't there yet. But mostly I simply don't suffer this apparent, terrible first world problem of needing switch device inputs often enough to warrant voice control of it. And if I did, a few taps on the source/input button on the TV remote would be quicker. I.e. I can do it quicker than I can say it.
     
  16. blakjedi

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    Xbox One gives you the options that suit MS... as they should. All your other devices dont really matter... whatever the other devices can do, XO can/will do better eventually [in MS' mind] and you will still have access to your live television. Xbox one provides you access to live tv in addition to other fixed entertainment. on one input, as opposed to "in lieu" of live television.

    Other devices can go into your other inputs... they dont care to solve THAT problem.
     
    #3116 blakjedi, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  17. ERP

    ERP Moderator
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    I honestly don't think it's about switching inputs, it seems to me to be about integrating the Xbox experience into the rest of your entertainment system. And at least minimally enhancing that experience.
    Microsoft and Sony both want you online on the box using their services all the time, that's why Sony is pushing social service integration.

    The thing I would note is thatI find it difficult to guess how useful something like the Xbox experience will be without living with it. It's somewhat interesting that the press who spend time with the system seem to find it compelling, but spending an hour with something is very different than living with it.
     
  18. Rockster

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    LOL! How true.

    I have PS3, 360, HTPC, and HD DVR currently with Logitech remote; but don't think X1 should/needs to front all of them. Certainly hasn't been sold and/or presented that way IMO. Though people continue to ask what can be plugged into the HDMI in; MS says technically anything but the fact that voice command to switch to the HDMI in stream is Xbox watch TV, and the OneGuide gets your local TV listings, and the IR blaster is for your STB, should be enough to tell you exactly what it's designed for.

    The intent is simple and clear, if you have a STB, run it through the X1, and leave everything else exactly where you already have it. There isn't much point to have it pass-thru anything else.
     
  19. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Firstly, my antenna connects to my TV which has the digital tuner. So there's no way to input a TV signal without me buying another box. Not that theres any room for it on my stand which already has a PS3, MacMini, surround sound system + front speaker, and soon a PS4. Secondly, I'll believe the Xbox One will be a better solution for accessing my media library, currently accessed through XBMC, when I see it.

    I think both Xbox One and PS4 could offer a great XBMC client experience but I'm not optimistic it'll happen anytime soon, if ever.
     
  20. joker454

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    That is part of the issue and almost impossible to explain. For simplicity sake let me just focus on only one aspect of the xb1, the hdmi-in, with a real world example from a couple I know that have a tv in their bedroom with two typical devices hooked to it, the tv receiver and a media player, I think it was a Western Digital model but I don't remember exactly. In any case, she never uses the media player. Never. Why? Because it's on a different input.

    No really, because it's on a different input!

    That's not the first, fifth, or tenth time I've heard the tale of a separate input never being used. Now to me, you and others it's a non-problem as you say. When I want to use my gaming pc I just change input on the a/v receiver and do my thing. When I want to watch tv I do the same, switch the input back. Hence to me while I would prefer it to all be on the same input, it's not a deal breaker to me. My wife on the other hand never uses the gaming pc because it's on a different input. It basically doesn't exist, and she's the tech nerd that among other things manages our entire home computer network, has worked for various well known tech companies, etc. Doesn't matter, to hear it's a deal breaker and anything beyond the current tv input does not exist.

    I can't possibly be the only person that has seen this behavior in others. It's very well known, go to any a/v show and ask people in the tv's booth about it. Now I can't expect the type of person that can program a Harmony remote to ever understand why this would be an issue or even a deal breaker, but it is and it's very real. I'm almost certain others here know of friends or family that are the exact same way and not just older folk, it's younger tech savvy people as well.

    And that's why, just like with the Wii, there are certain things that are borderline impossible to talk about on certain forums. Certain audiences just won't get it because it doesn't register to them. It's just like what I've experienced when I ask questions on cinematography forums about video cameras, recording techniques or workflow. I'll say for example how I don't need to record in raw, and it's like I'm an alien from the moon. Or I can say how not having 13 stops of dynamic range on my vg900 and nx30 video cameras is not a deal breaker for me and they think I am mad, that it's simply not possible and then I get lectured on how it's impossible to run a business without it. Or how I'll say that I use one of my cameras in full automatic mode, that always goes over really well. It doesn't matter how much I sit there and type replies or explain why, they are set in their ways and expectations as to what is critical, important and a deal breaker, and nothing I ever say will change that even though is has absolutely no relevance to me. How can I explain it to them? I can't and never will because they are what they are and that won't change. Same here, there are certain things that will simply never be understood or ever make sense on a gaming related forum. It is what it is, I used to try spending some cycles explaining it but I really should have just went back to forum history to realize I was wasting my time.
     
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