[BRAND NEW] High-Def Three Minutes MGS4 Trailer

Nice, wish it was the regular trailer and direct feed HD but that really shows a TON more detail. You can see the ribs on the cig! Thanks for the link. :)
 
the textures look so much better now, same goes for lightning I didnet think it would make such a difference but it really does.
 
If this is the same one from the Clip that was posted earlier, its not direct feed..Just a HD cam setup at the show floor :p
 
barnak said:
the textures look so much better now, same goes for lightning I didnet think it would make such a difference but it really does.

And this should end the "Is HD really needed in the next-generation consoles." See how fast a trailer can shut that arguement up.
 
mckmas8808 said:
And this should end the "Is HD really needed in the next-generation consoles." See how fast a trailer can shut that arguement up.

When you think about it, HDTVs will still be the vastest minority next year. It will get better, but for millions upon million of players around the globe, HD is not actually "needed". Doesn't matter though, cause those playing at SD/ED resolutions will get copious amounts of AA from next gen consoles, so they'll be happy.:D
 
mckmas8808 said:
And this should end the "Is HD really needed in the next-generation consoles." See how fast a trailer can shut that arguement up.

Beyond what LB said, I think HD can be overemphasized. If standard resolutions, which are 1/3 the pixels, were aimed for that means there could be 3x as much detail and work done for each pixel.

Think of it this way: 2 games. One that runs at 640x480 and one at 1600x1200. Both push the hardware to its max and run at 60fps. What will look better? Certain limiations aside, the smaller image will look better because it is doing more work per pixel. Another way to think of it is to compare HL1 @ 1080p to HL2 @ 480p. HL2, even at the lower resolution, is going to look a lot better. So there may be cases where having 3x as much resources per pixel will result in a better looking game at 480p than at a HD resolution.

Real life versus a game is another example. One has "infinite geometry and detail" and the other does not. Take the real life image and put it at a low resolution and take the game image and put it at hi definition. Which looks better? Well the real picture of course! Compare:

I, Robot
99Nights

That is not to knock HD--only the claim that HD is in some way "needed". HD is a "cheap" way to get more clarity and thus most frequently image quality *on the same image*. But if the underlying art is of low quality it will only pronounce imperfections. If you can see polygons on a 425x240 screenshot, imagine how pronounced they will be at 1920x1080!

And for people with standard TVs they will be getting a huge picture supersampled down. Not only does this help clean up aliasing, but it also *concentrates* detail

I recently watched I, Robot (the movie above) on a 48" HDTV. And I can assure you it looked better than any game running at 1080p will this gen. Resolution cannot replace detail. So while the pixels were stretched on the I, Robot image the original image was of such high quality and detail the 480p widescreen image would rock a 1080p game image--even though the 1080p game has 4.5x as many pixels.

I think in some specific cases the arguement could be made that a game targeting 480p with more detail could look better than a 1080p game. This would not be true of all games of course, especially since the consoles have spent valuable silicon realestate to hit HD resolutions, but I do not doubt the possibility. id Software has actually gone on the record as having this position.

Anyhow, non-HD users are not missing out on much. Namely
-Resolution clarity
-Clear text

Low Def users get better AA, supersampling of all the detail, and in some cases possibly better framerates! Besides small detail not being quite as crisp (but having more detail per pixel!) and blurry text--which is annoying--I think most STV users will be fine. They will be able to tell the difference in games.

Actually, the biggest loss will probably be widescreen. IMO, widescreen > HD. If I had to choose between widescreen 480p or 1080p 4:3 I would take the supersampled widescreen image at 480p!

Ps- I am a HD mark. I am not bashing HD. I plan to play in HD. But it is not necessary. This should shut that arguement up ;)
 
Agreed, though this isn't 100% right:

Actually, the biggest loss will probably be widescreen. IMO, widescreen > HD. If I had to choose between widescreen 480p or 1080p 4:3 I would take the supersampled widescreen image at 480p!

You won't be playing 1080P/i in 4:3 because 1080P is a widescreen resolution, you can't have it any other way. It's 1920x1080 either progressive or interlaced, and always widescreen.

I think many people make the mistake of thinking in terms of "watching LOTR Trilogy on DVD at 480p or on BlueRay at 1080p". Obviously the 1080P version will look SO much better than the DVD version, but that's because the source material is reality (or very high res CGI), and the original master of the movie is an outrageously high resolution.

With games, the "source material" is whatever is rendered inside the console, which is always at the same quality whether it's displayed at 640x480 or 1920x1080 (meaning, the textures are the same, the models are the same). As you said, the same material stretched to 1080P will show the flaws 10 times more than the standard definition one.

I guess it's all a question of balancing all these factors. And cookies.
 
Hopefully someone will record it so that we have a high quality direct-feed... :)

(can't download either of links unfortunately - both timeout after a while :( )
 
Phil said:
Hopefully someone will record it so that we have a high quality direct-feed... :)

(can't download either of links unfortunately - both timeout after a while :( )

Man u dont know what u're missing then!! :D
 
london-boy said:
You won't be playing 1080P/i in 4:3 because 1080P is a widescreen resolution, you can't have it any other way. It's 1920x1080 either progressive or interlaced, and always widescreen

True, technically. I was more thinking letterbox, if only to give an example of HD 4:3 vs. Low Def 16:9 on equal sized screens. I guess I should have said 4:3 letter boxed (which I would not doubt that, at some point, we will see a game at HD resolutions but letter box aspect).

Hopefully my technically poor example did not obscure my point :oops:
 
To London and Acert,

So why are 95% of the people in internet videogames forum world asking and darn near begging to see the HD or direct-feed version of the MGS4 trailer? To me they are asking for the clarity. And that's exactly what play the game in HD will do. Give you more clarity.

Now do you HAVE to have it? No, of course not be to me it will make a pretty big difference in quality.
 
mckmas8808 said:
To London and Acert,

So why are 95% of the people in internet videogames forum world asking and darn near begging to see the HD or direct-feed version of the MGS4 trailer? To me they are asking for the clarity. And that's exactly what play the game in HD will do. Give you more clarity.

Now do you HAVE to have it? No, of course not be to me it will make a pretty big difference in quality.

Keyword: people in internet videogames forum

Remember that those people constitute a very very very small percentage of the gaming world. They're the geeks who buy high-end graphics cards for their PCs and have HDTVs in their houses. They are the "early adopters" who help poor mortals like me to get cheaper sets in the future. The rest is in my post :smile:
 
We want direct feed because it has the proper brightness, contrast and colour balance. Even in 320x200 res, direct feed is infinitely more preferable to 720p handycam footage.

I don't care much for HD games. It only adds fidelity, not quality. eg. Wimbledon this year I remember seeing a ballboys face was just a pinkish smudge. Rendered in only a handful of pixels on the TV screen there was no room for facial details. HDTV would add a lot of clarity and detail. But overall no-one would complain if a tennis game looked as good as a live broadcast, and indeed everyone would prefer that, even with blurred out faces due to low resolution, then HD fidelity and jaggies and simplistic crowds and unrealistic shaders.

I look forward to HD imagery. It's certainly important for big-screens (something prevalent in the US. Elsewhere a 28-32" screen seems about as large as anyone cares for from what I gather) where lowres pixels look diabolical, and for multiplayer action it'll be beneficial. But in the main it's unimportant, and totally meaningless for the millions of gamers that'll never experience HDTV.

Note that HD output is important for PS3 as a driving force for CE goods. Sony want people to upgrade their sets and supplying them HD games and movies from a console they'll buy regardless will encourage that. It's of no importance to MS or Nintendo. At least not intrinsically. MS is cahooting with Samsung who'll want to shift TVs, and MS also don't want to be outdone by PS3 in the US market where HDTV sales is in sufficient numbers to be meaningful.
 
Well, it would also be unfair to compare a scaled down/compressed online video (versus a full sized direct feed) versus a hardware scaled (i.e. supersampled) and uncompressed realtime image on a console.

Your comparing apples-and-oranges when it comes to the quality of the media.

Compare HL1 on a 21" monitor @ 1600x1200 with HL2 on the same 21" monitor at 800x600. 1/4th the resolution, but HL2 is gonna kick butt because of lighting, shadowing, texture detail, etc...

And that is not even supersampled! Supersampling will give you better AA and more detail per pixel--especially in motion, not to mention it will be minimizing some of the nasties (like large polys) and then stretching it out which, oddly, gives it a smooth effect many times.

Obviously HD is nice, but if you have to choose between a higher res or better image quality (i.e. work work per pixel) I think we need look no farther than the PC to see how games scale on hardware. Older games run at high resolutions on a 660GT, and new gamers run at lower resolutions.

In most cases the new games, even at the lower resolutions, look nicer. Basically you are talking about HL2 (or FarCry or D3) at 800x600 vs. Battlefield 1942 at 1600x1200.

The higher resolution gives more clarity of the image, but it does not give more detail. It can only show the detail if it is there to begin with. And honestly, I am not sure this gen is quite capable enough--in performance OR development tools/budgets--to provide enough detail in every situation.

Does that make sense?

(Not that HD looks bad... of course it looks better with the same media when internally rendered at the display resolution, but supersampling a higher resolution looks a lot better than rendering it at the lower resolution natively)
 
Shifty Geezer said:
We want direct feed because it has the proper brightness, contrast and colour balance. Even in 320x200 res, direct feed is infinitely more preferable to 720p handycam footage.

I don't care much for HD games. It only adds fidelity, not quality. eg. Wimbledon this year I remember seeing a ballboys face was just a pinkish smudge. Rendered in only a handful of pixels on the TV screen there was no room for facial details. HDTV would add a lot of clarity and detail. But overall no-one would complain if a tennis game looked as good as a live broadcast, and indeed everyone would prefer that, even with blurred out faces due to low resolution, then HD fidelity and jaggies and simplistic crowds and unrealistic shaders.

I look forward to HD imagery. It's certainly important for big-screens (something prevalent in the US. Elsewhere a 28-32" screen seems about as large as anyone cares for from what I gather) where lowres pixels look diabolical, and for multiplayer action it'll be beneficial. But in the main it's unimportant, and totally meaningless for the millions of gamers that'll never experience HDTV.

Note that HD output is important for PS3 as a driving force for CE goods. Sony want people to upgrade their sets and supplying them HD games and movies from a console they'll buy regardless will encourage that. It's of no importance to MS or Nintendo. At least not intrinsically. MS is cahooting with Samsung who'll want to shift TVs, and MS also don't want to be outdone by PS3 in the US market where HDTV sales is in sufficient numbers to be meaningful.

OMG Wimbledon in HD!! Next year!!

*dies*
 
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