Blue Dragon will ship on 3 DVDs.

[Tap In]

It's all about MS PR bable....sections it really isn't a huge deal, what makes it a huge deal is MS blabing for the last 2 years that blu-ray was a waste and DVD9s will be good enough for this generation.

ridiculous,

the reason they did not use another disc technology was never because the space would/could not be utilized in games.

It was simply not feasible for their long term goals (including release time frame and costs) and they said DVD was adequete.


some people just hear what they want to hear.

and the fact that games will be on multiple disc in no way makes that statement invalid.

 

[London Geezer]

If we start arguing PR from companies,Sony is going to look much worse than MS.

I am not talking about the cost for games i am talking about the cost of the console.Anyway i think that DVD will be enough for like 95% of the games of this generation.

Absolutely. The only issues will come up for games such as GTA where the freedom of movement could really be a problem as you'd have to change disc everytime you go back to a certain area, and limiting that would limiting what GTA games are like.

But really, how many games the size and requiring the same freedom as GTA are there?? Way less than 5%

 

[Platon]

I do wonder though what impact this will have in Japan. In Asia, the developers/publishers all but outright screamed with dismay upon hearing that HD-DVD was a no go for 360. Now we have a high-profile JRPG coming out for the 360, and it is on 3 DVDs, just a year after the system has been released ...

So the big question is, will this bundle still appeal to the Japanese audience, or will it appeal to the Western audience only. Or will it just boost Sony?

Since older JRPGs didn't have a problem with many DVDs I don't think that it will be a problem now either, but we will see, if people start taking back their preorders then maybe there is a problem. The biggest probelm is no doubt not the amount of discs, but that if is for the 360...

 

[DJ12]

the reason they did not use another disc technology was never because the space would/could not be utilized in games.

It was simply not feasible for their long term goals (including release time frame and costs) and they said DVD was adequete.

We've all read numerous times over the months, some MS employee saying either blu-ray is a waste or there will be no 1080p games.

It's not a case of me hearing what I want to hear, it's a case of sites reporting what MS want reporting.

 

[function]

The only game i have finished that was on more than one disc was FF7 and to be honest, i had to change the disc twice in the whole 80 hours i played it. Which basically translates to two instances where i had to get up and change a disc, in more than 5 months i got from the game.

Seriously, if lots of people can find a problem with that, there's something very wrong with society.

@ society then.

Still, at least this thread hasn't deteriorated into some kind of unfixably bent N64/PS comparison.

My favourite games ever sometimes come on 3 or 4 CDs. So you have to change a disk after so many hours as the story progresses. So what.

I finished Shenmue 2 on the DC - 4 disks. I finished Shenmue 2 on the Xbox - 1 disk. Which was better? DC, because it didn't have the mind shredding English dub.

 

[fulcizombie]

Absolutely. The only issues will come up for games such as GTA where the freedom of movement could really be a problem as you'd have to change disc everytime you go back to a certain area, and limiting that would limiting what GTA games are like.

But really, how many games the size and requiring the same freedom as GTA are there?? Way less than 5%

Oblivion had no problem being on a DVD and i really doubt that GTAIV(a game with no use of CGI) will need more disk space.In spite of what some people think GTA:SA didn't even fill a DVD5.

I am no tech expert(far from it) but don't the limitations of each console hardware play a role also??I mean if the ps3 had 2 gb of ram i could see how more space would be needed for for high-res textures in games but now,with the final specs of the ps3, i really don't how a game would need so much space.I mean resistance is ..what 20bgs??Where are these 20 gbs??The textures aren't that impressive(quite the opposite),the length of the game is average to good(15 hours) but nothing amasing.I mean how different would this game be if the developers had to fit it on a dvd and release it on the 360??

I am not saying that a next gen. format is bad,far from it,more is always better.I just don't see MS having problems with multiplatform games from choosing th DVD format,maybe a bit lower quality cutscenes is the most i would expect in the distant future(end of 2008 and beyond).I also can't imagine how MS would benefit from releasing an HDDVD xbox360,that scenario seems like a disastrous one for MS,IMO.

 

[GB123]

Except it's going to require you to change discs. If it is going to be a seamless world, it will detract from the experience. Even if it is going to be a linear/episodic game, then it is still a disc swapping experience that didn't have to be there, however minor a point it is for some.

Well that arguement would be convincing if you planned to sit through all 50 hours in one sitting, which somehow i doubt anyone will do.

Inane, we are still waiting to hear about which ps2 and xbox games had to be on multiple dvds. I just want to know for curiosity's sake.

Ever played Star Ocean 3 on the PS2 ?

I actually think 3 DVD at 12 x transfer speed is better in comparison to one Blu-ray at half that speed and slower loading times.

You will only have to swap the disc's 3 times over 50 hours i don't see that as being a big deal, besides i always loved swapping disc's back on the PS1 it gave me a feeling of accomplishing something.

 

[London Geezer]

I actually think 3 DVD at 12 x transfer speed is better in comparison to one Blu-ray at half that speed and slower loading times.

Where did you get the idea that Bluray is half the speed of a 12X DVD Drive? It's slower at certain points and it's faster at other points.


Anyway, let's not forget that FF7 had the whole "world" on all 3 discs. The only thing that changed was the CGI. So you'd have a "seamless" world because it's on each disc, but the story of the game (and the respective FMV videos) is truncated in 3 parts. So changing the disc really is a once in a blue-moon kind of thing because going "to another area" doesn't trigger the change of disc, it's the story that triggers it. Once you get to a certain point in the story, you have to change the disc, and in this disc you can go anywhere you want, as the world is just there.

Or at least, i'm quite sure that was the case... I could have just dreamt all of that.

 

[GB123]

Oh ? i thought..

2 x Blu-ray: 9 MBps

12x DVD: 8.2 - 16.5MBps

 

[AlNom]

Anyway, let's not forget that FF7 had the whole "world" on all 3 discs. The only thing that changed was the CGI. So you'd have a "seamless" world because it's on each disc, but the story of the game (and the respective FMV videos) is truncated in 3 parts. So changing the disc really is a once in a blue-moon kind of thing because going "to another area" doesn't trigger the change of disc, it's the story that triggers it. Once you get to a certain point in the story, you have to change the disc, and in this disc you can go anywhere you want, as the world is just there.

Or at least, i'm quite sure that was the case... I could have just dreamt all of that.

hm... so once you get to the "third" act, you pretty much don't have to change the disc for that particular save game?

 

[dangerose]

It was simply not feasible for their long term goals

HD-DVD is more feasible for the long term.

(including release time frame and costs)

Why release it in 2005? The first 6 months were spent fighting shortages and manufactured faults. Costs? A company like M$ can subsidise the HD-DVD for the gamers they so loved. Charity makes better PR...

they said DVD was adequete.

It is not with Blue Dragon.

Anyway, let's not forget that FF7 had the whole "world" on all 3 discs. The only thing that changed was the CGI. So you'd have a "seamless" world because it's on each disc, but the story of the game (and the respective FMV videos) is truncated in 3 parts. So changing the disc really is a once in a blue-moon kind of thing because going "to another area" doesn't trigger the change of disc, it's the story that triggers it. Once you get to a certain point in the story, you have to change the disc, and in this disc you can go anywhere you want, as the world is just there.

Or at least, i'm quite sure that was the case... I could have just dreamt all of that.

What if that is not the case with Blue Dragon or upcoming next gen titles?

 

[crazygambit]

Absolutely. The only issues will come up for games such as GTA where the freedom of movement could really be a problem as you'd have to change disc everytime you go back to a certain area, and limiting that would limiting what GTA games are like.

But really, how many games the size and requiring the same freedom as GTA are there?? Way less than 5%

I think the bigger issue is the one I posted earlier and noone seemed to notice (I feel so small sometimes ) Multilanguage sountracks are gonna be difficult on DVD. I'm pretty sure space is the only reason I'm suffering through a dub in FFXII. This doesn't bode well for the 360 in regards to JPRG if they ever go multiplatform and the PS3 offers multiple languages. Really, IMO next-gen should give the choice of languages, just like DVD did over VHS.

hm... so once you get to the "third" act, you pretty much don't have to change the disc for that particular save game?

Correct. Once you finished a particular disc you never needed it again, so once you put the third in you didn't need to swap again.

 

[PSman]

I really hope you don't need to pee those 35+ hours it takes to finish the game, that would ruin the whole seamless experience ...

Yeah, I mean taking a break every 15 hours to swap a game disc could snowball into other stuff like working, sleeping, or, gasp leading a normal life. I remember when FF7 came out, all of my friends were boycotting the PS because they couldnt stand the idea of lifting their arms.

I can get up and go up in front of my TV and change the channel, but why should I do it when there's a remote control? And funny how you bring up FF7. Just because we swap disc in the past doesn't mean that we still have to do it now just IMO.

I still getting Blue-Dragon, but I just don't like this 3 DVD idea, not one bit. This isn't the PS1 Era anymore. So much for "compression" .

I really starting to like this Blu-Ray idea


Just IMO

 

[GB123]

I think the bigger issue is the one I posted earlier and noone seemed to notice (I feel so small sometimes ) Multilanguage sountracks are gonna be difficult on DVD. I'm pretty sure space is the only reason I'm suffering through a dub in FFXII. This doesn't bode well for the 360 in regards to JPRG if they ever go multiplatform and the PS3 offers multiple languages. Really, IMO next-gen should give the choice of languages, just like DVD did over VHS.



Correct. Once you finished a particular disc you never needed it again, so once you put the third in you didn't need to swap again.

Well oddly enough, I remember From Software complaining about Enchant Arms not fitting onto a DVD yet it did with loads of spare space.

Ubisoft managed to include both Japanese and english vocals and the game was only just over 6gb's i believe. (granted the game had barely any FMV)

 

[Qroach]

You know it was fairly predictable to see exactly who would come in this thread and make a big deal of a game coming out on more then one disk for the 360.

I do recall all those saying that higher capacity disks were not needed for more then 95% of the games released are still correct in that assumption. Out of the 160 xbox 360 games released by the fall. All but one can fit on a normal DVD. That certainly doesn't help justify the need for larger capacity or being charged a premium for something not necessarily required for gaming.

Seriously, if the larger capacity is going to be primarily used to provide more FMV in games then I can likely do without it. I'd much rather see realtime cut scenes.

 

[London Geezer]

You know it was fairly predictable to see exactly who would come in this thread and make a big deal of a game coming out on more then one disk for the 360.

I do recall all those saying that higher capacity disks were not needed for more then 95% of the games released are still correct in that assumption. Out of the 160 xbox 360 games released by the fall. All but one can fit on a normal DVD. That certainly doesn't help justify the need for larger capacity or being charged a premium for something not necessarily required for gaming.

Seriously, if the larger capacity is going to be primarily used to provide more FMV in games then I can likely do without it. I'd much rather see realtime cut scenes.

Yep, as i said, even 5% is a very very large estimate.

Bluray makes things easier under some points of view (like mentioned, multiple language soundtracks, lots of mostly useless stuff). But it's not needed. I'm happy it's there cause it makes me watch pretty HD movies but it's clear that for 99.99% of the games, it's overkill.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do we know what amount of Blue Dragon is HD FMV? Have they superceded one DVD's worth with game content, or is that still <8 GBs, and the rest is renders? It'd be nice to know if this is a game making use of more capacity other than with just padding.

 

[dangerose]

Do we know what amount of Blue Dragon is HD FMV? Have they superceded one DVD's worth with game content, or is that still <8 GBs, and the rest is renders? It'd be nice to know if this is a game making use of more capacity other than with just padding.

someone answer that!

 

[GB123]

Do we know what amount of Blue Dragon is HD FMV? Have they superceded one DVD's worth with game content, or is that still <8 GBs, and the rest is renders? It'd be nice to know if this is a game making use of more capacity other than with just padding.

Well i doubt it exceeds 4 hours of FMV depending on compression WMV9 at 720p with decent IQ would be around 8 gb's i think.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Absolutely. The only issues will come up for games such as GTA where the freedom of movement could really be a problem as you'd have to change disc everytime you go back to a certain area, and limiting that would limiting what GTA games are like.

But really, how many games the size and requiring the same freedom as GTA are there?? Way less than 5%

And how did GTA rank in comparison to other games at the time space wise?

At 2.5GB it was far below the average...and the majority of that was audio...food for thought.

On the load times issue, the HDD will help make up for the much slower BR speeds, but that also depends on how much effort developers put into using it, and you also have to realise that MS included in the API very easy tools to stream from the HDD, so it's not like 360 games won't use the HDD as well.

How it will all shake out we'll have too see but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the DVD drive ends up loading faster in general, which depending on the game can be a big deal. Case in point, Oblivion. Extend load times another 10-15seconds and you are seriously impacting the enjoyment of the game.