Bloodborne: [PS4] (From Software)

[ArcticCircle]

I really dislike clipping and collision detection issues. I guess I just have to deal with 'em as they seem to be issue that can't be solved currently. Bigger mobs feel highly detailed model in same space with retangular collision detection box.

Everyone talks about difficulty but healing items are everywhere and you can use 20 per encounter. It feels like bosses are designed to be handled without healing, but focus testing and their frustration made developers choose less difficult path. I've seen in many streams and youtube videos where players, talented or not, one or two shot several bosses. Maybe that's just the fact of modern game design, but even in MMOs you're expected to wipe many times on boss battles before learning all the tricks and then executing plan correctly and eventually kill the boss.

Jim is both right and wrong when he says that Bloodborne is not a power fantasy. Depending on players skill level, game is as much as power fantasy as any action game before it. Yes, it might be really scary to some players who happen to be around same skill level as focus testers but at the same time you can skip most of the mobs and just run a past everything and kill boss, buy bloodvials, bullets (and other consumables) and upgrades from hunters dream and then finish the game really quick (just saw 2 hour 45 min real time clear all bosses, 2 hours 20 mins in game time). Also there are probably players who find Bloodborne impossible but that's always the case if there are no difficulty options.

 

[Strange]

Huh? one or two shot bosses? are you sure they're fighting bosses? Bosses have ~3000+ HP at the beginning and I don't think you can hit for 1000 at the beginning, not to mention that later bosses have upwards of 10000.

Speedruns are just that. Speedruns. You ignore all side quests/ side maps to finish the game. To make a game hard to speedrun in a short time you make the game linear and design enemies/areas where you are forced to clear, which sounds like a formula for complaints.

 

[Cjail]

@ArcticCircle

Your character is very handicapped and I think this is why they throw at you so many potions.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Huh? one or two shot bosses? are you sure they're fighting bosses? Bosses have ~3000+ HP at the beginning and I don't think you can hit for 1000 at the beginning, not to mention that later bosses have upwards of 10000.

Speedruns are just that. Speedruns. You ignore all side quests/ side maps to finish the game. To make a game hard to speedrun in a short time you make the game linear and design enemies/areas where you are forced to clear, which sounds like a formula for complaints.

What he means is getting to a boss and beating it right away or on the second try. And I really don't think the blood vials are a concession made as a result of focus testing. If this game had been designed according to focus groups like just about any other AAA game, we'd be looking at an entirely different game right now.

 

[Strange]

I've seen in many streams and youtube videos where players, talented or not, one or two shot several bosses.

No, he very specifically said one or two shot bosses. Expressing "killing it on the very first attempts" uses different vocabulary.

 

[ArcticCircle]

What he means is getting to a boss and beating it right away or on the second try. And I really don't think the blood vials are a concession made as a result of focus testing. If this game had been designed according to focus groups like just about any other AAA game, we'd be looking at an entirely different game right now.

Yes, I mean getting to the boss and then killing it right away or on second try. Only bosses I've seen killed really fast are those who are super vulnerable to cannon blasts (I think 3 hits is least amount I've seen).

Bosses are cleverly designed in general. They lure you to get greedy, then sometimes do quick follow up attack. They have different phases (meaning they behave differently and use alternative attacks or weapons). Monsters are puzzle and once you decode that puzzle, you can kill 'em no problem (depending how greedy you get with attacks). Massive amount of health items let you skip that decoding part and you can just brute force the encounter. Sure you can't go full on tank and spank, but if boss don't one shot you, 20 healing items mean a lot of mistakes can be ignored. When you see someone like Blood Starved Beast getting killed with zero damage taken, it's become so obvious what developers wanted out of the encounter. It's like heureka moment - Ah, so that's how you do it. I'm not saying all encounters currently in game are like that. If there are 20 healing items available, you have to design some encounters around them. I'm sure that someone will do it, but I'd say someone Gehrman with zero damage (or without healing if we give bit leeway) is out of reach for most players.

This should not be taken as "the design is bad" or "game is cakewalk". I'm just saying that when you have single available difficulty setting, developers have to make compromises. Players in general are not bad or good, they are average. Focus groups are needed to find that average. Then you make changes for the original development vision and ship the product that is enjoyable for the most potential buyers. And yes, potential buyers for game like Bloodborne and Candy Crush are different

Also speedruns are very good way to learn the games. Let's say you wanted to do no healing healing items run in Bloodborne. You most certainly woulnd't stop to kill trash mobs, you'd ran past 'em. Die on boss, run again, die again and so on. After few hours, you're extremely good at that part of the game and know what items to get, what mobs to kill on the way to boss and what to ignore. Kind of stuff you did naturally in games when they offered three lifes or one tiny health bar per level. It's not that different then something like NES Ninja Gaiden.

 

[London Geezer]

Ah I'm starting to understand why the loading times. The game remembers every single enemy you kill, leaves the character there until you die or return to Hunter's Dream. So the whole part of the level you're in, and all information pertaining to who/where you killed is saved, until you die miserably. This is not a streaming friendly game, but surely they can sort out how data is managed between HDD and RAM and shorten the loading times?

 

[Sigfried1977]

Ah I'm starting to understand why the loading times. The game remembers every single enemy you kill, leaves the character there until you die or return to Hunter's Dream. So the whole part of the level you're in, and all information pertaining to who/where you killed is saved, until you die miserably. This is not a streaming friendly game, but surely they can sort out how data is managed between HDD and RAM and shorten the loading times?

That's really no different to the way DS1+2 populated its world with corpses over time. Unless you reset an area by lighting a bonfire, everyting remained dead in those games as well.

 

[London Geezer]

That's really no different to the way DS1+2 populated its world with corpses over time. Unless you reset an area by lighting a bonfire, everyting remained dead in those games as well.

Yeah but last gen there was only 512MB of RAM to fill up. This time around it almost feels like they're emptying and refilling gigabytes of RAM every time, which shouldn't be needed.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Exactly. I have literally no clue how any of that stuff works, but if you have to flush and then reload an entire level into the system's memory every time the player dies (especially when you barely managed to put significant distance between yourself and the lantern you spawned at), maybe you're doing something wrong.

That said, I'm surprisingly okay with the loading times.

 

[London Geezer]

Exactly. I have literally no clue how any of that stuff works, but if you have to flush and then reload an entire level into the system's memory every time the player dies (especially when you barely managed to put significant distance between yourself and the lantern you spawned at), maybe you're doing something wrong.

That said, I'm surprisingly okay with the loading times.

Out of the things they should fix, they should probably focus on the framerate first, which does affect me a lot more than the loading times.

 

[London Geezer]

Just got past Father Gaga or whatever his name his. Kinda starting to getting the hang of this and it's true, meaningless deaths don't feel frustrating because I know exactly why they happen - usually it's me thinking I'm playing GOW for a fraction of a second and getting my ass handed to me in half a second.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Yes yes yes Yes Yes !!!!!!!! Father G is dead finally ! Woot woot ! My bloody heartbeat went over 150 near the end of the fight cos I realised I had no bullets left :O and only 2 Molotov's !!!!

Hell freaking Yeah !!!!!

 

[London Geezer]

I actually screamed FUCK YES! Which says a lot about how rewarding the game is.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Just cos I am so exhilarated !!!!

 

[DieH@rd]

Some videos from my first dozen of hours. Shame I missed to record many great moments.

 

[orangpelupa]

O_O that bloodborne screenshot really puke-inducing *
maybe the CA works well (bad?) with the level details (fences and many lines on stone floor).

*yeah i am super alergic with CA. Something minimal like Destiny is fine, something double picture like 3D anaglyph is not fine (Crsysis 3 comes to mind, luckily it can be disabled).

 

[RenegadeRocks]

O_O that bloodborne screenshot really puke-inducing *
maybe the CA works well (bad?) with the level details (fences and many lines on stone floor).

*yeah i am super alergic with CA. Something minimal like Destiny is fine, something double picture like 3D anaglyph is not fine (Crsysis 3 comes to mind, luckily it can be disabled).

Sour grapes ! The game is pure honey sweet candy laced with chocolate sauce !

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Just for LOLs, this is how I actually won the Father G:

Yeah, its funny how many times I run around. I was just trying to find some new patterns in his ways and ended up killing him. Missed all ripostes too. But if running works, I shall call it a valid strategy !

 

[London Geezer]

I just can't get through Amelia. Trying to keep behind her but she always ends up killing me. Boohoo.