ShadowRunner
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Im not sure if cutscene graphics should be included, especially with IQ enhancements that are very unlikely to be realtime. You then get into photomodes and such being included aswell.
Best graphics in 2009
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Im not sure if cutscene graphics should be included, especially with IQ enhancements that are very unlikely to be realtime. You then get into photomodes and such being included aswell.
On the other hand there was no action in the trailer at all, and if it's indeed squad based then the battles might have been scaled up significantly from Halo3. Now that could be interesting... although the 'Gears of Reach' description and the apparent increase in detail could also suggest the opposite, a tighter theater with tougher enemies.
I think you meant the above ?
I also rated KZ2 higher than U2. But I think it may be unfair to rate U2 below KZ2 based on stylistic choices alone without playing U2. Some disliked KZ2's color scheme, while others were disappointed with U2's painted look. Would you borrow, steal, rent a U2 game to try it out (Since you have the means to play KZ2) ? I'd be interested to see whether the experience change your mind.
IMHO, those screenshots look nice but do not do the game justice. When I first got the game, it almost felt like I have a mini-stadium of baseball teams playing in my PS3. Watching them play in the stadium is like watching fishes swim in an aquarium.
The sense of realism is exaggerated by the smooth, mo-cap animations, the lighting, and the background sound. The problem is I was awed but it didn't capture my imagination as well as some other games.
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I think you meant the above ?
I also rated KZ2 higher than U2. But I think it may be unfair to rate U2 below KZ2 based on stylistic choices alone without playing U2. Some disliked KZ2's color scheme, while others were disappointed with U2's painted look. Would you borrow, steal, rent a U2 game to try it out (Since you have the means to play KZ2) ? I'd be interested to see whether the experience change your mind.
IMHO, those screenshots look nice but do not do the game justice. When I first got the game, it almost felt like I have a mini-stadium of baseball teams playing in my PS3. Watching them play in the stadium is like watching fishes swim in an aquarium.
The sense of realism is exaggerated by the smooth, mo-cap animations, the lighting, and the background sound. The problem is I was awed but it didn't capture my imagination as well as some other games.
Yes, I meant that, KZ2 is one of the most immersive games I have ever played right up there with COD and Bioshock.
I certainly have the means to get Uncharted 2, but have no time to play it unfortunately, even during the holidays. However i'll try to pick it up along with MW2 for PS3.
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corduroygt
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*Spin off* Best looking game 2009 discussion thread: what and why
Could you please tell me these games that max them out "regularly"? Is it just like "the majority of games using free 4x MSAA" on the 360? Only Uncharted 2 comes to mind and that game is the best looking console game out there. Watching the killzone 2 presentation and spu utilization graphs, on the average 2 of them were in use 100%, and about 2 more would come and help during busy scenes. Considering that the best looking games this generation are so far on the PS3, it looks like the "a generation behind" GPU hasn't hampered its exclusives.
Curious about some multiplatform examples myself. AFAIK, Uncharted 2 is the only game out there right now that uses 100% of the CPU cycles.
I really don't think any blind test would have anyone pick something like Borderlands or Batman AA over U2 or KZ2. RE5 and Batman AA are my two favorite games this year but I can't say that either has anything over Guerilla's or ND's efforts from a technical standpoint, even though I enjoyed them far more (I'm still playing RE5). They're still great looking games with impeccable art direction of course, particularly RE5, and ultimately it's the gameplay that wins people over.
Sure, the gap may not be similar to the one we saw last gen between Xbox exclusives and multiplats, that's a given, but it's there. If you take into account audio, the difference is more profound. LPCM options with first party games on the PS3 are typically ear melting experiences.
I really don't think any blind test would have anyone pick something like Borderlands or Batman AA over U2 or KZ2. RE5 and Batman AA are my two favorite games this year but I can't say that either has anything over Guerilla's or ND's efforts from a technical standpoint, even though I enjoyed them far more (I'm still playing RE5). They're still great looking games with impeccable art direction of course, particularly RE5, and ultimately it's the gameplay that wins people over.
Sure, the gap may not be similar to the one we saw last gen between Xbox exclusives and multiplats, that's a given, but it's there. If you take into account audio, the difference is more profound. LPCM options with first party games on the PS3 are typically ear melting experiences.
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You quote two games that have publicly shown what they do with spu's, and from that have somehow extrapolated that the rest of the gaming industry in it's entirely is letting them idle, knowing full well that most studios guard tech information under iron clad nda's. I'll presume you realize how silly that is. The rest is just your opinion. You think the best looking games are PS3 exclusives and that's fine, but I certainly don't.
You'd be very surprised! I've actually done blind tests many times in the past, I even posted about them here some time ago. KZ2 tended to rank poorly on the blind tests I did. I used to think that art direction was more important than technology, and doing blind tests makes me believe that all the more. In other words, I'd prefer great art with average tech instead of great tech with average art. Point being that "best graphics" is not cut and dry, and ultimately I think art direction trumps tech. So while on forums KZ2 gets brought up all the time as the best graphics, it's not surprising to me when I show it to someone and they think it's visually just average, or if they prefer MW2 visually. It's also not surprising to me when multi platform games get ranked best on blind tests.
Given that most games bought are multi platform, I'd say making a development platform multi platform friendly should be a top priority. The old strategy of putting out bizarre hardware with poor tools and support, and relying on years for devs to figure it all out is a dead strategy.
Who buys a console for multiplatform games? At this point in time its going to be the exclusives that drive the hardware sales (or whatever is unique to either) and more hardware sold = more software sales eventually. Its also tough to make a system multiplatform friendly as that means it should be as close to the other systems as possible. The thing is that there is a greatly different system around that you guys tend to use as your lead platform -----> problem starts.
btw how do you do a blind test on video games? You'd have to use non-gamers and show them lengthy parts of the best looking scenes in each game. Is that what you did?
btw how do you do a blind test on video games? You'd have to use non-gamers and show them lengthy parts of the best looking scenes in each game. Is that what you did?
Tons of people. Think Madden, GTA, Call of Duty, etc. Look at the PS3 exclusives sales numbers, look at the install base, and do the math from there. (Point of this calculus being, most of the PS3 owners out there *do not* own the hot exclusives, but in larger proportions do own the hot multiplatformers)
The PS3 has become 'lead' system in a lot of respects due to the fact that code built for the one ported to the other goes more smoothly than the reverse. If your implication is that the PS3 suffers for it, I think that is more a condition of years past. PS3 multi-platform titles of late have been quite polished, I'm sure you'll agree.
Yeah the only exclusive that was purchased by a great deal of the HD install base was Halo 3 which was at 8 million last time I checked. The games that have really kept this generation afloat are mostly multiplat. I bet when you run the numbers on the PS3 the game at the top of the list will be Modern Warfare 1 followed by GTA4 and Modern Warfare 2. Admit it or not while one would consider multiplats a wash between platforms they carry a significant amount of mind share with them and they are generally what is getting purchased the most.
corduroygt
Banned
Well, all the major gaming websites like Gamespot, IGN and TV shows like Spike VGA, G4TV etc have the same consensus that Uncharted 2 is the best graphics of this gen so far. That's far more significant than casual blind tests on a small sample size and far more representative of what the general gaming audience thinks, unless they're all PS3 fanboys of course. Also most people tend to buy games for systems they own or where they have their friends at, regardless of the graphical differences between the two platforms. Reason MW2 sells more on the 360 has nothing to do with that its slightly better graphics, but all to do with the larger install base, and Xbox Live being better than PSN.
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I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest that the bar has not been raised above gears 1 or pgr3. Gears 2 and pgr4 were substantial improvements imho. Capcom games have looked progressively better with each new major release. Rare has progressed from Kameo to Banjo. I don't doubt that Halo Reach and Alan Wake will be stunning as well and way beyond the launch titles you mentioned. Also, the beauty of exclusive titles is that you can't see how they would look on another console. How do you know that KZ2 and Uncharted 2 couldn't look just as good if not better on the 360? We'll never know.I think the idea was that the Cell would allow the PS3 to do things like KZ2 and U2 (and GT5 probably).
Having the designers put effort in Cell, and not so much in the GPU means that up to this point roughly 90% of all multiplats perform 10-20% worse on the PS3.
But who cares about multiplatform games when hardware exclusives will blow them graphically out of the water anyway?
It will only get better from this point on, as all developers share techniques and what not.
Not as a comparison, but looking at games like Gears of War 1, or PGR3 (or 4) in retrospect, I think those bars have not been raised (on the 360) since. Not that it really matters, as those games are great looking, even today.
The PS3 was designed to go beyond that, so if that means having generally worse 3rd party games, so be it. I wouldn't want to trade U2 or KZ2 graphics for all the multiplats in the world
To tell the truth, I did some blind tests with people, and they always preferred Gears1 and PGR3 as the best graphics on 360. when I showed Alan wake, they were complaining about "the screen tearing up" and "the motion becoming very choppy" whatever that meant. And Halo Reach I could not show them yet because it did not have a demo out at the time unfortunately.
Some people would rather have great technology along with great art, as opposed to mediocre technology with mediocre art I guess..
In other blind tests with gears1 and 2, people actually complained that "the photographs of stones on the wall in Gears2 have generally worse quality than those in gears 1" I think they meant the textures were less consistent in gears2..
That's what I thought. That together with the 'best looking'/'most impressive total package' games on console being multiplatforms is interesting.
I believe the general opinion here is that your statement only accounts for the 360.
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in 90% of all multiplatform title development, inefficient use of the cell, and in general using cell and rsx completely separate, results in the multiplatform titles performing worse on ps3.
On PS3, exclusive titles are outperforming multiplatform titles technically almost all the time.
Technically, not necessary artistically
You could say that most of the exclusive 360 developers lack technical skill, this would be true in titles such as too human or Forza (compared to other 360 games), but I think that the UE3 already maxes the 360 hardware completely.
I even read on this forum that EPIC had a hand in the 360 design, though this might not be true.
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There seems to be a lot of assumption going on that PS3 exclusives are the best looking console games out there. From what I've seen MW2 is the best looking console game available right now. That just my opinion but it does show the error in simple assuming games like UC2 and KZ2 to automatically be the best.
Hell, just look at what Crytek are doing in Crysis 2. If that lives up to its promise then IMO it will easily come out ahead of both platforms exclusives graphically.
Hell, just look at what Crytek are doing in Crysis 2. If that lives up to its promise then IMO it will easily come out ahead of both platforms exclusives graphically.
Not sure you understood what I was saying. If a multiplatform game is on either console and according to your second paragraph they are near equal on each, what reason will push a buyer to go with one console over the other? I say whatever is unique to either and a huge part of that are the exclusives. The first 30 million sales, lets say, are multiplat driven.... now we are running into overtime where the difference is exclusive content and I think thats what will push sales of hardware. Note i said what sells hardware, not what sells. Its going to be exclusives that help sony close the gap on the 360 and its going to be the exclusives that allow either to pass the other. Take the wii.... where are its multiplatform driven sales?
The cell was not the ps3s problem.
Not that we're not wandering off topic still, but I'll go with you down this road for a moment.
I think which exclusives they have definitely factors in, I agree with you there. But I also feel there is just this more general sense of what system is "it" at any given point in time. PS3 has had a very strong X-Mas sales season from everything I can tell... certainly from where I sit, I see general 'new owner' interest on the Internet these days and banter in stores I wander through tending to focus on it.
Was it because of the great titles this season? No doubt in part. But I think it just has a 'fresh' feel to it with the Slim launch, improved press in general (which I do think the exclusives have factored in to in a positive way), the lower price, and the BD playback at a time when I think BD is gaining some real traction. It's a more compelling system than it was across the board. 360 may have a similar re-launch with Natal; I don't know, but I guess we'll see. Likewise sales numbers in May vs December will be more indicative of long-term mindshare gains.
I'm ashamed to admit that I think it looks awesome as well and it's only rendering 600p.
Lucid_Dreamer
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Saying U2 or KZ2 (or any game) is best looking is an opinion, but let's just say it is the most popular opinion. The only thing that people seem to say about MW2, to base their "best looking game" opinion on, is that it's 60fps vs U2 and KZ2's 30fps. IMO, that's a weak reason when it's the only reason used to bestow such a title on. If using only that criteria, MLB 09: The Show should probably be the winner.
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