Best Company Vehicle ~$35k
- Thread starter Mize
- Start date
_xxx_ said:
I'm definitely not an expert, but:
You said yourself here in this thread that German car manufacturers are willing to sacrifice reliability in favor of cutting edge technology...what about that?
The quote:
_xxx_ said:
I don't know if the Japanese could _that_ easily build equally advanced automotive electronics, but if I'm not mistaken reliability > "cutting edge" is surely a matter of choice for Japanese car manufacturers.
One question regarding electronics: Hasn't been Toyota in the LIN consortium for years? I guess they will use the technology then, don't they? (I don't know - I'm really curious!)
Sage said:
I know what you are saying is bullshit because my brother owns and drives an LS400 from 2002 and has had absolutely no problems with it so far. He could have paid more and gotten a more prestigious vehicle but he is not so fond of the driving experience as he is of gadgets and quietness and comfort. He got what he wanted and he is happy.
I have no problems with german cars. If I had the option to drive out with an M3, M6 or an E-55 or the new CLS setups, I would do so in a heart-beat.
My whole point over the past couple of pages has been that there is nothing wrong with Japanese cars and their build quality and reliability and typically you get them at a far lower price point than German counter-parts for the same performance/specs.
XXX had a good point about the underlying tech and German cars indeed have more advanced tech. But there is no point to having more advanced tech when it drops the reliability of the component.
However take a look @ the vehicles out there with 4wd for example. Right now subaru, nissan and acura and audi are probably the names that come to mind. I am including nissan in there primarily because of their Skyline coupe's and their tech. Audi quattro's are fabulous but once again price/performance, japanese are winning that race.
I have a 2001 purple C320 with 80k miles on it. Before I got it I spent an arm and a leg having an independant (but certified by DC) shop go over it in extremely fine detail. The guy I bought it from would have much rather me taken it to his guy because, according to him, this place i took it to had a rep for comming up with more problems than there really were. They tried hard as hell to come up with things that I would need to get fixed and to exagerate the problems they did find but, the best they could do was claim that the brake rotors will need to be replaced at next service, there are a few electrical systems showing "faults" (very minor stuf) and the only thing that actually appears to have a genuine problem is the power seat memory... which I dont even use because I wont let anyone else drive it... and the 6cd changer. Also, they claimed that one of the bushings in the front needed to be replaced but if it was broken then I should definitely be able to feel it at 110mph and I cant. 
They even opened up the engine and looked inside, the only thing that they didnt do was a compression test.
I've put nearly 1000 miles on it since Tue last week. Not one single problem (other than trying to fix the CD changer and as a result killing my entire stereo system which my local ddealership fixed for free by simply putting a pass-thru plug on the fiber line that went to the CD changer. Ima buy a new(used) cd changer on ebay for cheap.
Yes, it does have a few paint chips. It also has some hail damage. But, those things are fixed very easily and cheaply.
They even opened up the engine and looked inside, the only thing that they didnt do was a compression test.I've put nearly 1000 miles on it since Tue last week. Not one single problem (other than trying to fix the CD changer and as a result killing my entire stereo system which my local ddealership fixed for free by simply putting a pass-thru plug on the fiber line that went to the CD changer. Ima buy a new(used) cd changer on ebay for cheap.
Yes, it does have a few paint chips. It also has some hail damage. But, those things are fixed very easily and cheaply.
Sage said:
Purple
Your sense of taste is clear...And you might not dismiss out of hand somehting simply because you cannot feel it. When you feel things rattling around you have already cost yourself much more on the repair bill then if you fix them before things get destroyed...
There are so many dang bushings though who knows which it is or if it is even important...
Sage said:
Now I know you have lost your mind. The new GS is quite sharp imo.
http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/exterior.html
Same with the SC.
http://www.lexus.com/models/sc/exterior.html (though I think it's more of a doctor's wife's car).
And in terms of reliability I thought the Lexus was pretty good.
Sxotty said:Purple
i keep meaning to post pics... its damn sexy
well, it's not something you would feel "rattling around" but, rather, at high speeds you would feel a lot of jittering and shaking. Anyhow, I had MY mechanic look at it and he said they were all in good shape. Of course, even if they weren't then it's normal stuff that gets replaced due to wear and tear.
Ty said:
imo the GS lacks any styling whatsoever. it's like lexus uses a computer to generate their designs. actually, it wouldnt surprise me if they did. when you look at a lexus you cant even tell that it's a lexus until you get close enough to see the emblem. they are as boring and generic as it gets. Worse than Toyota, even.
True, the new 3-series isn't too hot either. I'd much rather have a facelifted E46. those things are sexy. id probably go for one of those over a bla black/white/silver C-class. But you cant beat my purple baby 8)
Damn Sage, I wish you knew what it was like to own a real luxury car. You're missing out on so much with that car of yours. It's quite nice to be sitting in a car that weighs more than a ton with all the nice luxrious features I would want (mini bar included) and still have a nice 550 HP at the crank. Now that is a wonderful car, butnot nearly as wonderful as the two seaters.
Anyone claiming that Lexus vehicles are ugly w/o commenting on any of the Bangle designs with similar disdain loses brownie points in my book
The new bimmer's are growing on me. Quite like the new M6.
Wrt the new GS, it has a much more aggressive presence bout it than the old one and the new lights do update the appearance quite a bit.
The seem to have borrowed some cue's from the Infiniti lineup, but then a lot of cars nowadays have the LED lights.
The new bimmer's are growing on me. Quite like the new M6.
Wrt the new GS, it has a much more aggressive presence bout it than the old one and the new lights do update the appearance quite a bit.
The seem to have borrowed some cue's from the Infiniti lineup, but then a lot of cars nowadays have the LED lights.
Sazar said:Anyone claiming that Lexus vehicles are ugly w/o commenting on any of the Bangle designs with similar disdain loses brownie points in my book
http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/petition.html
not AS bad but, considering how incredibly beautiful the facelifted E46 is and how far below that the E90 is, BMW is doing worse in styling than Lexus. They need to send Bangle off to work on Sebrings or something
silence said:Sxotty said:There was a funny quote in the thing about the mercedes with the most mileage.
LOL, ya.... _xxx_ forgot to tell us from where do parts come from
i wonder how many of those parts have "Made in Germany" tag. 8)
Just as many as Japanese have "Made in Japan" on them...
But seriously - the engine, transmission and chassis are made by Mercedes in-house.
Snyder said:
I never said that anyone sacrifices reliability. All I said is that a completely new tech is bound to produce bugs in the beginning.
Japanese could sure as hell produce equally advanced cars, but they always play safe - they wait till the products used by Mercedes etc. have been widely used and improved over 5 years and use it then. Way to go if you want a stable car...
Surely Toyota knows about all these technologies, I often meet Toyota guys in various occasions where these technologies are being discussed. Most of it is open-source, BTW.
Every major manufacturer has at least one department whose only job is to disassemble and analyze competitors' cars. Then there are comparisons, ideas for optimizing one's own products etc. Nothing goes unnoticed.
I defend the quality of german cars because I'm completely sure that these are the best and will offer you the best driving experience. Be it a luxury car like an S-class, a sporty BMW M5 or a rocket like Porsche GT. I'm not german, it's got nothing to do with national pride.
Where are the German hybrid cars? Both Toyota and Honda have had hybrid cars for a few years now. In fact Toyota is already on their 3rd? generation hybrid system. It's so reliable they're using it in Lexus models now and will even be used in the next Tundra and Volta super car.
PC-Engine said:
There are many hybrid cars in Germany, they're just not in mass production because the tech is still not of much use and there is no market demanding these. In fact, every manufacturer has these. Mercedes even has hybrid busses, FYI. A couple of these are regularly underway in NYC and Island.
BMW even has a combustion engine running with hydrogene which set a new speed record for hybrid cars - 304 km/h. When that sort of hybrid power becomes viable, you'll see Mercedes and BMW sell hybrids, but not before that.
EDIT:
I hope that will happen soon with pollution levels we have now. Last week I couldn't drive through Stuttgart because the particle level was so high that they stopped all diesel and non-D4 cars on that day till the values got down...
That I can actually agree with.Sage said:
I haven't seen a Lexus yet that I look at and think "DAMN! I gots to get".
The Acuras were that way too, up until just recently. (The old CL was just bleh, though the Integras were OK)