Anand has the details about r520,rv530,rv515
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After playing some FarCry with HDR enabled, I have a hard time understanding this position. I mean, I've tried to go back and play the game without HDR. I just can't do it. The difference is so dramatic. Edge aliasing is a comparitively minor issue that I sometimes notice when the action slows down. But the difference between HDR and not just permeates the entire game.John Reynolds said:
Sure, an architecture that supports multisampling on FP rendertargets would have a tremendous advantage over hardware that doesn't, but I will definitely pick HDR + no AA over no HDR + AA any day.
Wow, I'm just the opposite. HDR is neat, but jaggies annoy me a hell of a lot more than any lighting does.Chalnoth said:
Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just found it weird.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
I always notice the jaggies. The crawling line just pulls your eye towards it.
What about games that don't use HDR? It's not a universal technique to improve the visuals of all styles of games, where AA is. HDR is great for first person perspective games, but what about everything else?
What about games that don't use HDR? It's not a universal technique to improve the visuals of all styles of games, where AA is. HDR is great for first person perspective games, but what about everything else?
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Jaggies annoy most folk and overbrightness annoys some even more.digitalwanderer said:Wow, I'm just the opposite. HDR is neat, but jaggies annoy me a hell of a lot more than any lighting does.
Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just found it weird.
Jaggies on the gun in FarCry isnt escapable even in motion.
digitalwanderer said:Wow, I'm just the opposite. HDR is neat, but jaggies annoy me a hell of a lot more than any lighting does.
Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just found it weird.
I say all or none. I either want AA for every edge or give me HDR. If I only get AA for some edges but not all (big example is shubbery and chains and junk in GW), then I would take a higher resolution with HDR than partial AA.
serenity said:Jaggies annoy most folk and overbrightness annoys some even more.
Jaggies on the gun in FarCry isnt escapable even in motion.
This brings up an issue I have with HDR so far. Its utterly unrealistic to me. What's the point in making lights super bright if they are super unrealistic or have weird negative effects. Every time I think HDR i think of weird ass rocks glowing, or some weird ass super beam of light coming through something that actually hurts the game and feels completely out of place. Or maybe I think of buggy implemation where a whole air vent starts to glow, and simply turning around fixes it but then the light refraction/reflection that is suppose to be there is now gone?
Maybe its just the really bad use of it so far. But neighter Farcry or SP:CT to me have good HDR. In fact, I'd put them on the line of actually HDR that ruined the IQ for me. The only time I enjoyed HDR was in Farcry outdoors when everything seemed less washed out. But to me it should have never had a washed out look in the first place. In doors its just been terrible. Surfaces reflect weirdly or start to glow, like gaining super powers like they are going to bust.
Right now I much rather have really nice AA, especially AA that effects alpha textures. Also, I would really enjoy better looking texture work. HL2's textures are a great step in the direction that I want, but no other games even come 1/20 of that to me.
I'm personally tired of fancy lighting, I think other advancments would be MUCH more interesting and better looking to me. Improved AA and AF is something I'd love.
Pete said:
Interesting point! Looking at the Anand quote, I'd wonder "available" to who? Them or us?
I just looked at the "Bania/Sassen communiques" and did not see a fining down of "Tech Day" beyond "End of September". What I did see was a statement that there would be an opportunity after Tech Day to still brief some of those journos who had not been invited to the big hoedown/debauchery, which presumes some days existing after Tech Day and before Announcement. Also, based on what we've seen in the past, wouldn't we expect Our Heroes would get their kit at that event to take home for the benching frenzy and preparing of articles for the lifing of NDA, and that they'd get at least, oh, hell, I dunno. . .3 or 4 days? (which seems damn short, actually, for a new archictecture!) to bench, digest the white papers and PR and put their articles together? All of which leads me to believe that even September 30 is looking pretty tight. I can imagine all involved looking with lust at the weekend of Oct 1-2 to finish up their stuff before release.
But whadda I know?
Edit: But then there had to be a reason they went under NDA before Tech Day, right? So mebbe they've got the whitepapers and PR already and are working on articles, preliminarily, to be filled out with benchies and conclusions later. . . That would make 3 or 4 days look a little more reasonable. . .
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I think that single level HDR tech demo from Valve called: Lost Coast is going to ship at the same time ATI releases their R520s. I think Valve still owes them for taking all those millions from ATI and delivering the game late, insead of with the release of the video card. Remember the coupons?. And of course Lost Coast will run fast with the R520 for obvious reasons.
geo said:
I think everyone thats into 3d graphics hope the chip is fast. Deep down inside even Jen-Hsun Huang probably gets a certain kindof satisfaction when ATI outperforms his chips. Chips get faster--thats just something we all hope for and are happy to see. It transcends companies.
Okay I'm getting too philosophical here...
I'll be the first one to stand up and applaud if it delivers higher image quality on every front, but with similar performance to the competition. Frankly I often don't understand that fixation many have with performance; the G70 isn't exactly "slow", rather the contrary.
I'm going to try something different and not quote what I'm replying to. Don't panic.
Yeah, geo, I came to the same conclusion for the same reasons, and expected to read about R520 and company a bit later. But we've seen quite a few details recently, and some people seem to know quite a bit about R520 already. So it's not unpossible that people may have been briefed already, and may even have cards in hand.
In fact, didn't Dave or someone here say some time ago (weeks? months? it's all a blur) that reviewers had 16-pipe R520s in hand?
The truth may be out there, but I can't be bothered to piece it together--too sleepy.
Yeah, geo, I came to the same conclusion for the same reasons, and expected to read about R520 and company a bit later. But we've seen quite a few details recently, and some people seem to know quite a bit about R520 already. So it's not unpossible that people may have been briefed already, and may even have cards in hand.
In fact, didn't Dave or someone here say some time ago (weeks? months? it's all a blur) that reviewers had 16-pipe R520s in hand?
The truth may be out there, but I can't be bothered to piece it together--too sleepy.
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