AMD: Zen 3 Announced [2020-10-08]

[tongue_of_colicab]

But its unlikely that every CPU launched will be DDR5 only from the start. Mid and low end will probably be DDR4 for the next couple of years. Wouldn't be that surprised if even something like a Ryzen 6800 could still come with DDR4 support on AM5.

 

[Arzachel]

There's already rumblings about the non-x 5600 coming sometime January and I'd be surprised if we don't see the 5700x before March. I'm on a B450 board and need to wait for a beta bios either way, maybe by then I'll be able to buy a new GPU without waiting in line for months.

 

[RedVi]

I'm glad they are sticking with the 500 series chipsets, but am worried if I rush to buy I could I end up with a mobo that isn't new stock and in turn doesn't have the new BIOS... I can't wait until next year as my 4670k is severely hampering new games, but hopefully waiting until december could be long enough to ensure I don't get an old stock motherboard.

As for AM5/DDR5. I'm expecting them to launch that in early 2022, with an 5000 series XT refresh in the 2nd half of 2021. Maybe the XT refresh will be worth it this time, pushing the older models down in price to previous 3000 series pricing and taking boost clocks to 5GHz.

 

[Kaotik]

I'm glad they are sticking with the 500 series chipsets, but am worried if I rush to buy I could I end up with a mobo that isn't new stock and in turn doesn't have the new BIOS... I can't wait until next year as my 4670k is severely hampering new games, but hopefully waiting until december could be long enough to ensure I don't get an old stock motherboard.

As for AM5/DDR5. I'm expecting them to launch that in early 2022, with an 5000 series XT refresh in the 2nd half of 2021. Maybe the XT refresh will be worth it this time, pushing the older models down in price to previous 3000 series pricing and taking boost clocks to 5GHz.

Pick a motherboard which allows flashing BIOS without CPU if you're afraid of "old stock BIOS"?

 

[RedVi]

Pick a motherboard which allows flashing BIOS without CPU if you're afraid of "old stock BIOS"?

Thanks. I didn't know that was a thing now. I'm kind of limited in my choices as I need mITX and S/PIDF optical for my old sound system which is a rare combo. So far its either the MSI MPG 550I Gaming Wifi or ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX. The MSI is much cheaper and it looks like it has the feature you mentioned via a button on the back.

https://storage-asset.msi.com/datasheet/original/mb/global/MPG-B550I-GAMING-EDGE-WIFI.pdf

Solves that issue.

 

[Erinyes]

Well AMD have said that they will jump to DDR5 on AM5 and Intel said same with whatever the next gen chipset is. Whether it's next year or not is up to debate as AMD's 5000 series just got released so AM5 is likely in 2022 as I don't see it next year .. maybe an announcement of AM5 and 6000 CPU Series at the end of next year.

Given the switch to DDR5, I'd expect the announcement of Zen4 and AM5 no earlier than CES 2022. Initial DDR5 production will be prioritized towards servers as the consumer segment really dosen't need that much of an increase in bandwidth. And with a likely increase in core count by 50%, I can see DDR5-4800 or DDR5-5500 being a good match for a potential 96 core EPYC.

But its unlikely that every CPU launched will be DDR5 only from the start. Mid and low end will probably be DDR4 for the next couple of years. Wouldn't be that surprised if even something like a Ryzen 6800 could still come with DDR4 support on AM5.

I'm not sure if they would bother launching any 5nm CPUs with DDR4 support. Though there is a rumour of some sort of Zen 3 refresh in Q3 2021, I'd wager it's more likely to be an XT like refresh.

AM4 will live on well into 2022 and beyond, just as we saw with DDR3 platforms once DDR4 was introduced. The lower end of the market will do perfectly fine with 7nm CPUs and DDR4, possibly being refreshed with the lower cost 6nm at some point.

The more interesting questions are what kind of chip stacking tech is AMD going to use, and what process will the IO dies move to.

 

[manux]

I'm going to wait for zen4. My old computer is way too slow technology from 2013, but I'll manage somehow. Major complaint I have about am4 is the limited pcie bandwidth as single nvme4 ssd can saturate all bandwidth that is between chipset and cpu. Yes, it's not factor now, but I tend to use same machine for 8years+ and it could become issue once games are more streaming based. I'm also hoping that if optimal directstorage implementation requires something new from cpu/chipset this would be included in zen4.

Not sure if PCIe Gen 5 would be relevant in consumer space for anything but providing narrow yet faster bus between chipset and cpu.

It’s generational - if you look to the future we drive improvements in every generation. So you will see AMD transition to PCIe Gen 5 and that whole ecosystem. You should expect to hear from us in our next round of generational improvements across both the next-gen core that is in design as well as that next-gen IO and memory controller complex.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16176/amd-zen-3-an-anandtech-interview-with-cto-mark-papermaster

 

[Unknown Soldier]

AM4 will live on well into 2022 and beyond, just as we saw with DDR3 platforms once DDR4 was introduced. The lower end of the market will do perfectly fine with 7nm CPUs and DDR4, possibly being refreshed with the lower cost 6nm at some point.

Not sure what AMD was doing in the DDR3 to DDR4 era but Intel cut ties with DDR3 immediately.

My current motherboard is a Z97 and it was the last with DDR3 .. there were none with DDR4. The motherboards that came after that with support for the 6000 Series Intel CPU's were all DDR4 and I don't remember there being support for DDR3 memory. Not to say there weren't, just I don't remember seeing motherboards that had DDR3 support.

Actually I don't see any H110, B150 or Z170 with DDR3 support.

https://www.asus.com/us/site/motherboards/Z97/comparison/
https://rog.asus.com/articles/maxim...z170-h170-b150-and-h110-chipset-motherboards/

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-Z97X-Gaming-3-rev-11/sp#sp

4 x DDR3 DIMM sockets supporting up to 32 GB of system memory
* Due to a Windows 32-bit operating system limitation, when more than 4 GB of physical memory is installed, the actual memory size displayed will be less than the size of the physical memory installed.
Dual channel memory architecture
Support for DDR3 3200(O.C.) / 3100(O.C.) / 3000(O.C.) / 2933(O.C.) / 2800(O.C.) / 2666(O.C.) / 2600(O.C.) / 2500(O.C.) / 2400(O.C.) / 2200(O.C.) / 2133(O.C.) / 2000(O.C.) / 1866(O.C.) / 1800(O.C.) / 1600 / 1333 MHz memory modules

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z170X-Gaming-7-rev-11/sp#sp

4 x DDR4 DIMM sockets supporting up to 64 GB of system memory
* Due to a Windows 32-bit operating system limitation, when more than 4 GB of physical memory is installed, the actual memory size displayed will be less than the size of the physical memory installed.
Dual channel memory architecture
Support for DDR4 3866(O.C)/3733(O.C)/3666(O.C) /3600(O.C.) /3466(O.C.) /3400(O.C.) /3333(O.C.) /3300(O.C.) /3200(O.C.) /3000(O.C.) /2800(O.C.) /2666(O.C.) /2400(O.C.) /2133 MHz memory modules

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-B150M-Gaming-rev-10/sp#sp

4 x DDR4 DIMM sockets supporting up to 64 GB of system memory
* Due to a Windows 32-bit operating system limitation, when more than 4 GB of physical memory is installed, the actual memory size displayed will be less than the size of the physical memory installed.
Dual channel memory architecture
Support for DDR4 2133 MHz memory modules

 

[Erinyes]

Not sure what AMD was doing in the DDR3 to DDR4 era but Intel cut ties with DDR3 immediately.

My current motherboard is a Z97 and it was the last with DDR3 .. there were none with DDR4. The motherboards that came after that with support for the 6000 Series Intel CPU's were all DDR4 and I don't remember there being support for DDR3 memory. Not to say there weren't, just I don't remember seeing motherboards that had DDR3 support.

Actually I don't see any H110, B150 or Z170 with DDR3 support.

Of course, I never said any new platforms were released with DDR3, just that old ones continued to sell (and in good volume), even after the DDR4 platforms were released (some continue to be sold to this day). The transition to a new type of memory is never 100% overnight. DDR4 and the platforms supporting it will be available for a number of years after DDR5 platforms launch.

 

[hoom]

Jeez some of the benchmark scores coming out are astounding.
eg https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
Even the 5600X obliterates the best of Intel in single thread
5950X = 3693
5600X = 3455
i9 10900K = 3177

 

[Rodéric]

Nice !
I'd like an 8 cores Zen 3 with a 85W TDP please. ^^ (5700X please ?)
(105W seems a bit too much to me, 65W is nice but I'd like 8 cores ^^)

 

[itsmydamnation]

Nice !
I'd like an 8 cores Zen 3 with a 85W TDP please. ^^ (5700X please ?)
(105W seems a bit too much to me, 65W is nice but I'd like 8 cores ^^)

just set the power limit in bois

 

[Kaotik]

Nice !
I'd like an 8 cores Zen 3 with a 85W TDP please. ^^ (5700X please ?)
(105W seems a bit too much to me, 65W is nice but I'd like 8 cores ^^)

65W is fine with 8 cores. I'm pretty sure there will be 5700(X) and it'll be 65W just like 3700X, 2700 and 1700 before it.

 

[Erinyes]

65W is fine with 8 cores. I'm pretty sure there will be 5700(X) and it'll be 65W just like 3700X, 2700 and 1700 before it.

Not to mention there's also the 16 core 3950X which is 105W (Though that's just an extra CPU chiplet with the same IO die). But yeah I don't expect the 5700X to be more than 65W.

 

[seahorsesaw]

Rocket Lake is going to have to be some architecture to top that. At least probably +20-25% IPC at same clocks.

 

[Erinyes]

Rocket Lake is going to have to be some architecture to top that. At least probably +20-25% IPC at same clocks.

That seems unlikely. Rocket Lake is rumoured to be a Tiger Lake hybrid core, and still on 14nm so IPC aside, power/clocks are big question marks. I can't see Intel catching up until at least Alder Lake, and by then Zen 4 on 5nm should be around the corner.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Zen 3 is beast but the rumours I've seen about Rocket Lake (online, no inside info) are putting it at a massive uplift over Comet Lake. The suggestion is that this will be a Nehalem -> Sandybridge type IPC increase with gaming improvements >20%. Given Zen 3 is still weakest vs Intel in gaming performance (albeit it's now finally besting them) I do expect Rocket Lake to at least take back the gaming crown. At least at 8 cores as there are also rumours it'll be limited to that.

 

[Kaotik]

Zen 3 is beast but the rumours I've seen about Rocket Lake (online, no inside info) are putting it at a massive uplift over Comet Lake. The suggestion is that this will be a Nehalem -> Sandybridge type IPC increase with gaming improvements >20%. Given Zen 3 is still weakest vs Intel in gaming performance (albeit it's now finally besting them) I do expect Rocket Lake to at least take back the gaming crown. At least at 8 cores as there are also rumours it'll be limited to that.

The IPC increase will be there. The question is will the clocks be there too with backported huge cores.

 

[Erinyes]

Zen 3 is beast but the rumours I've seen about Rocket Lake (online, no inside info) are putting it at a massive uplift over Comet Lake. The suggestion is that this will be a Nehalem -> Sandybridge type IPC increase with gaming improvements >20%. Given Zen 3 is still weakest vs Intel in gaming performance (albeit it's now finally besting them) I do expect Rocket Lake to at least take back the gaming crown. At least at 8 cores as there are also rumours it'll be limited to that.

The IPC increase will be there. The question is will the clocks be there too with backported huge cores.

Zen 3 is ahead of Tiger Lake by ~6% in IPC. Rocket Lake is supposedly lower IPC than Tiger Lake so it has to be clocked significantly higher on 14nm to beat Zen3, which is unlikely. Zen 2's weakness in gaming was primarily due to the split L3 cache and that's been fixed in Zen 3. Intel isn't doing anything groundbreaking in Rocket Lake so I don't expect anywhere near 20% in gaming. I see Rocket Lake either matching Zen 3, or slightly ahead at best (at much higher power consumption).

 

[seahorsesaw]

No doubt Intel need 10nm fixed as soon as possible, although it would be interesting if they could still win in some categories (i.e gaming) while on a technically inferior node.