AMD: Speculation, Rumors, and Discussion (Archive)

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by iMacmatician, Mar 30, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    The revision adds a global signal for a stack ID for the high-density version of pseudo-channel mode, as well as a few other formerly unmentioned redundant signals and the method of using them, a catastrophic thermal event signal, and a few other changes.

    If the revision is merely a codification of what Fiji already does, then that would be fine, but if the revision is a summation of various lessons learned from Fiji and other stakeholders, Fiji's support if there is support may come with an asterisk.
    The behaviors with pseudo-channel and the new stack ID signal (seems like a chip-select except for picking between two 4-hi halves of an 8-hi stack) sort of suggest that in the universe of possible implementations, HBM is starting to lean in a direction.

    There's a row hammer mitigation mode, if a GPU should care, and the highest density stack comes with pseudo-channel and the stack ID signal. As an aside, Nvidia is the GPU vendor so far that has mooted planning a product that uses 8GB stacks, since they discuss a 32GB future compute product.


    The prior revision has a capacity ceiling that would allow an 8GB card.
    The latest HBM can take things to 32GB, and also inserts some requirements like thermal event signalling as density increases.
     
  2. sebbbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    5,293
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    I am wondering, why not go with Y16Cr10Cb10 without chroma subsampling (CrCb also at full resolution). Would give much better dynamic range and takes identical BW/storage of R12G12B12.
     
  3. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    india
    Venturebeats interview with Koduri. Besides the talk of 16k and VR, there was some stuff about the Polaris GPUs and a dig at nvidia. He sounds pretty confident on landing ahead of them this gen.

    http://venturebeat.com/2016/01/15/a...graphics-immersion-with-16k-screens/view-all/

    More, presumably, big Polaris ES on the move, probably a couple of months to repi's twitter feed.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    936
    Polaris 10 and 11? What does that mean?
     
  5. Love_In_Rio

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    207
    GloFo 14nm FINFET and TSMC 16nm FINFET?.
     
  6. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    india
    I was thinking that it might be the confirmation of the tweaktown report that they had the enthusiast class Polaris GPU at CES.

    Two versions might also be full chip and the cut down chip.
     
  7. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    936
    But why 10 and 11, as opposed to A and B if the micro-architecture is the same, or 1 and 2 if it is different?
     
  8. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,308
    Likes Received:
    5,931
    My understanding was that Polaris 10 is the small GPU for thin-and-light notebooks that was shown running Battlefront and Polaris 11 is the higher performing GPU that was reportedly shown behind closed doors.
     
  9. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    india
    Perhaps the first digit is for generation and the second for the chip. Or Polaris being an umbrella term for different IPs is applied to previous chips as well and these are the 10th and 11th chips respectively.

    Same here, but he says, 'This is Polaris 10 and that’s Polaris 11.' as if pointing them out besides each other. Which somewhat takes away from that possibility.
     
  10. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,308
    Likes Received:
    5,931
    We don't know what he was pointing at, and the reporter didn't specify either..
    He could be pointing at two desktops, at two diagrams, he could simply be gesticulating, etc.

    He said before that there were two distinct FinFet GPUs coming this year.
    In this interview, Raja also said RTG is changing their naming scheme from GPU names that are completely disconnected (to everyone but those with a MsC in World Geography) to family name + codenumber. They're doing this in order facilitate communication between them and with the press (why the hell did they part from the R/RVxxx scheme anyways?).
    So now we have Polaris (architecture) 10 (codename) and Polaris 11. Perhaps it'll be [architecture name] and then 10 for low-end, 11 for mid-end, 12 for high-end and 13 for enthusiast. And then there can be a Polaris 20, 21, 22 and 23 for refreshes.
     
  11. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,248
    Likes Received:
    3,193
    Location:
    Finland
    Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this, but anyway - remember the claimed AMD slide leaked by Fudzilla, which had MCM with "Zeppelin" CPU and "Greenland" GPU, connected by GMI interconnect (100GB/s)?
    At least the interconnect is real and in development: https://translate.google.com/transl...co.jp/docs/column/kaigai/20160115_739108.html
    Apparently full memory coherency between discrete GPUs and CPU can't be confirmed yet, but it's at least on the plans
     
  12. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    It could also be Polaris 2 and 3, depending on how you count your 1s and 0s. ;)

    I think I like some of what Koduri is saying with regards to taking a more assertive stance when it comes to generational improvements and long-term targets, should the words be paired with action. Granted, at least some of it can be pent-up design work lost to the 20nm skip.

    Besides, the consoles have been out for several years and AMD's semicustom and APU efforts have leveraged graphics to the point that it seems to be reducing progress. Graphics needs at least some exclusive attention before it gets put through the leveraging process again.
     
    pharma, Razor1 and Lightman like this.
  13. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,308
    Likes Received:
    5,931
    Taken from a forum post. I asked where it came from.
    For now, just take it as pure speculation:

     
    iMacmatician likes this.
  14. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    936
    If the R7 460X specs are correct, then there's very good news: Pitcairn will finally die!
     
  15. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,308
    Likes Received:
    5,931
    And you get console performance at notebook-friendly power consumption, which is exactly what was promised.

    So one GPU to replace Bonaire and Pitcairn, and one GPU to replace Hawaii. Tonga and Fiji live to see another day, which makes sense because they're the last GPUs from AMD with GCN3.
    The lower number of CUs per SE for the lower end seems also great because now they get 4 geometry engines (Bonaire and Pitcairn had 2), so the lower performing cards get a lesser hit from geometry intensive situations.

    Assuming the 470X is Tonga's replacement for 2017, it'll have the same number of shader engines but with the CUs-per-SE upped, and the same will be true for the enthusiast GPU replacing Fiji.

    I also like the idea that Raven Ridge's iGPU is an exact Polaris 10, meaning the Zen+GCN4 APU won't cut corners to get the promised console performance. Also, this kind of compute power is definitely not just getting dual-channel DDR4 for bandwidth, so I think HBM is to be expected for APUs in 2017.
     
  16. McHuj

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    802
    Location:
    Texas
    I was going to ask. Did anyone actually see Polaris 11 on a board? Is it hooked up to HBM or GDDR5? Even with additional BW compression, I;m guessing it would require ~400 GB/sec and I'm not sure a 512-bit bus is exactly feasible for a mainstream part.
     
  17. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,308
    Likes Received:
    5,931
    No one (without a NDA) has seen Polaris 11.
    I think Polaris 11 is probably coming with HBM. Maybe two stacks of HBM rev2 would suffice?

    That would also explain why the Nano got such a drastic price decrease. With >Hawaii performance at less than 150W and HBM allowing for a small PCB, there would be little reason to buy the Nano. By then, Fiji would be better spent on Fury cards.
    With the recent news of the GTX 970 becoming the most popular card on Steam, Polaris 11 is bound to target its market.
     
    DuckThor Evil likes this.
  18. RedVi

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Australia
    Reduced TDP is great, but aiming for similar performance to todays parts can't be the best of ideas...

    Limiting 480X to <150w and performance <Fury X when Nvidia could release something slightly faster than a 980Ti at <200w pretty easily would be a terrible move IMHO.
     
  19. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    india
    The die size for the smaller chip is in the cape verde range, so it's more like R7 250X currently, though it might reach the x50 after a rebranding.

    Pitcairn went to gpu heaven, at least in laptops, with the release of Neptune. wccftech were calling it GCN2.0 before it was cool.

    And more 'information'.

    Pascal is several months (estimated up to 2 quarters) late.

    On topic:

    Small GPU demoed at CES was a Polaris 10 engineering sample. Will be used in Raven Ridge APU and R7 460X Discrete GPU which uses less than 50W
    16CUs, 64SP per CU = 1024 SP + 64TMUs Pitcairn is dead long live Polaris 10!

    Polaris 11 demoed behind closed doors was R9 480X engineering sample using less than 150W
    48CUs, 64SP per CU = 3072 SP + 192 TMU (pretty much 3X Polaris 10)

    Big Polaris, Fury X replacement should be double of Polaris 11 which will come out to be 6144SPs

    No concrete clocks or performance figures except huge smiles on AMD reps when asked about performance, interpret that however you want [​IMG]

    P.S: Forgot about 490X, it should be 3840 SPs
    P.P.S: Gotta love how defensive and knee jerk some people get at a few lines of information lol.

    http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1042091070&postcount=17
     
  20. Raqia

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    18
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...