AMD Radeon RDNA2 Navi (RX 6500, 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900 XT)

Silent_Buddha said:
This assumes that the only thing you use the PC for is games. If that's the case then yes, that 1000 USD PC isn't very good value compared to a console.
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Even for gaming only at similar specs, some want the flexibility of pc gaming, larger library and games from both sides (ms, sony, pc). Aswell as the ability to upgrade and generally superior RT. If we factor in dlss (kryptonite for some) then you get better performance out a 1000 dollar pc aswell. Or when using RT (if rtx3060 or better). Since RT is unavoidable these days….

techuse said:
All of which can be done on their console/phone
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Browsing on ps5?
 
Silent_Buddha said:
If you're going to go that snarky route, let's also not pretend like content creation is the only non-gaming thing that a person would do on their PC, or even the most common non-gaming thing that a PC is used for.

Regards,
SB
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What is the most common non gaming use? Students would have a netbook/something portable. I’m not sure what large use case there is in todays world.


PSman1700 said:
Even for gaming only at similar specs, some want the flexibility of pc gaming, larger library and games from both sides (ms, sony, pc). Aswell as the ability to upgrade and generally superior RT. If we factor in dlss (kryptonite for some) then you get better performance out a 1000 dollar pc aswell. Or when using RT (if rtx3060 or better). Since RT is unavoidable these days….



Browsing on ps5?
Click to expand...

PS5 has a limited web browser. Xbox has a fully featured one. Every smart phone has a fully featured web browser. All 3 also have apps for all/most of the popular ways to consume data/media/internet.
 
PSman1700 said:
Even for gaming only at similar specs, some want the flexibility of pc gaming, larger library and games from both sides (ms, sony, pc). Aswell as the ability to upgrade and generally superior RT. If we factor in dlss (kryptonite for some) then you get better performance out a 1000 dollar pc aswell. Or when using RT (if rtx3060 or better). Since RT is unavoidable these days….
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I think this is a really important and often overlooked point. For many PC gamers the value proposition isn't simply how much more performance you can get. It's the customisability and of breadth of the experience. Mods, settings, benchmarking, hardware configuration, overclocking, re-shades etc.... all of this is value add to me for PC gaming. By comparison, even at similar or better performance levels I find console gaming for the most part pretty boring. Consoles are getting better at providing flexibility and choice to gamers - which for the record console gamers are lapping up, proving that it was always a good and valued thing despite the many protestations over the preceding decades, but they are still light years behind PC's in that regard and always will be. Granted not everyone wants that level of flexibility and that's perfectly fine. But there is definitely value add there for those people that want it. Similarly as you state, the breadth of the games library is another important value add. Being able to play games from every major platform, including most historical ones through emulation, all on a single device can be a massive advantage for some, and worth paying extra for.

techuse said:
PS5 has a limited web browser. Xbox has a fully featured one. Every smart phone has a fully featured web browser. All 3 also have apps for all/most of the popular ways to consume data/media/internet.
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Every browser is limited without a keyboard, mouse and big screen to easily switch between tabs and windows. I can't count the number of things I will turn to my desktop browser for over my phone or even laptop. And as for using a console browser and control pad to do these things, I refer to trinibwoy's previous post about coming back to reality. The value of a PC in this regard is that I can flick between high end gaming, responding to a post on B3D (that I can easily and quickly research if needed), planning a holiday, watching a YT video, and responding to a couple of work emails, all in a matter of seconds, and every one of those activities is being done on a device that is absolutely 100% the best suited to them. Not compromising on a tiny screen, or a fiddly touch pad, or god forbid trying to perform an internet search with a control pad. That's the value add of PC's.
 
pjbliverpool said:
I think this is a really important and often overlooked point. For many PC gamers the value proposition isn't simply how much more performance you can get. It's the customisability and of breadth of the experience. Mods, settings, benchmarking, hardware configuration, overclocking, re-shades etc.... all of this is value add to me for PC gaming. By comparison, even at similar or better performance levels I find console gaming for the most part pretty boring. Consoles are getting better at providing flexibility and choice to gamers - which for the record console gamers are lapping up, proving that it was always a good and valued thing despite the many protestations over the preceding decades, but they are still light years behind PC's in that regard and always will be. Granted not everyone wants that level of flexibility and that's perfectly fine. But there is definitely value add there for those people that want it. Similarly as you state, the breadth of the games library is another important value add. Being able to play games from every major platform, including most historical ones through emulation, all on a single device can be a massive advantage for some, and worth paying extra for.



Every browser is limited without a keyboard, mouse and big screen to easily switch between tabs and windows. I can't count the number of things I will turn to my desktop browser for over my phone or even laptop. And as for using a console browser and control pad to do these things, I refer to trinibwoy's previous post about coming back to reality. The value of a PC in this regard is that I can flick between high end gaming, responding to a post on B3D (that I can easily and quickly research if needed), planning a holiday, watching a YT video, and responding to a couple of work emails, all in a matter of seconds, and every one of those activities is being done on a device that is absolutely 100% the best suited to them. Not compromising on a tiny screen, or a fiddly touch pad, or god forbid trying to perform an internet search with a control pad. That's the value add of PC's.
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You can use a keyboard/mouse with a console. I don’t understand the big screen part as TVs are typically much larger than monitors.
 
techuse said:
What is the most common non gaming use? Students would have a netbook/something portable. I’m not sure what large use case there is in todays world.
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I don't know that anyone can say what exactly is the most common non-gaming use, but feel free to pick from just a tiny sample of uses...
  • Crypto-Mining
  • Accounting - small business (friend of mine who owns an Insurance business does all his books on his home computer), contract worker, home finance, accounting work from home (my friend has been doing this for the past 13 years for the company he works for).
  • Non-gaming recreational usage like browsing the web, shopping, banking, watching movies, listening to music, storing photos, etc.
    • Obviously some of these can be done on console or mobile devices
    • If using a laptop while using a console for gaming purposes, well you're now spend 1000+ USD combined for your gaming and non gaming devices.
      • In other words, you're now spending as much or more than you would if you just gamed on PC depending on how good that laptop is.
  • Research purposes, similar to the above but from a non-recreational POV.
    • KBM becomes a far more efficient way to accomplish this task than using mobile devices.
    • While you "can" hook up a KBM to the console and use a browser, you also don't get the specialized apps that can greatly increase your research efficiency.
      • Doing any sort of serious research on a console browser with a KBM from the couch is slow and laborious especially since you still need something to record, track, and catalog what you are researching.
  • Hobbyist restoration. This includes something as simple as touching up a photo you've taken to more complicated tasks such as scanning in old photos or recording audio from old records or transfering old home movies recorded on film into a digital format. Then after converting them to digital form, many people will additionally attempt to "clean" them up.
    • All of which I've done and plenty of people have done one or more of those things.
    • I've spent a lot of time transferring a lot of the old home movies on small film reels that my grandmother used to take. Likewise with old family photos and my grandmother's old Hawai'ian music records. The latter of which isn't available on various streaming services.
  • One more that I'll just clump all work related stuff that isn't accounting.
    • Programming is the quite obvious one here.
    • Many companies are choosing to continue to either require work from home or have the option for their workers to continue to work from home.
      • Also don't forget that many companies already had work from home options for some of their employees for well over a decade now (pre-pandemic).
    • Self contractors (there's a LOT of those) keeping business records, printing contracts, etc.
    • Small business run out of the home. Similar to the above.
    • Etc...
There's obviously plenty of other uses that I'm not touching on here.

And yes, you can do all of that with a laptop as well and a few of those can even be done on a smartphone and a very few of them might be doable (if painfully so) with a console connected to a KBM.

However, as mentioned if you are doing that stuff with a laptop while gaming on a console, that's basically the same as just doing it with a PC in terms of cost and investment. Sure you can also get just a gaming laptop, but gaming laptops in terms of performance are generally less powerful and more expensive than an equivalently performing desktop PC. Of course, when there's a crypto bubble that can sometimes move the price/perf to be in favor of a gaming laptop although it loses out significantly if someone has the ability to upgrade their PC piecemeal.

Regards,
SB
 
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I think all of this is just a little off topic but it got me curious to try keyboard and mouse on my PS5. It does recognize mouse and keyboard devices and the keyboard works. I can navigate with arrows and type in search boxes. Mouse doesn't seem to do anything in the UI though.

But PS5 essentially lacks a web browser. There is a hidden, somewhat limited one for some apps to use but it's not like the previous PlayStations with a dedicated browser app.
 
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techuse said:
You can use a keyboard/mouse with a console. I don’t understand the big screen part as TVs are typically much larger than monitors.
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And you generally sit much further away from them giving you a much smaller perceived screen size.

Are you really wanting to have a debate about whether internet browsing is better or worse on a console vs a desktop PC? Let alone full on multitasking.
 
digitalwanderer said:
Do we really have to fight over this? I mean y'all remember what the "P" in "PC" stands for, right? "PERSONAL"! Everyone computers differently, and that's ok.

At the end of the day, we're all in to computers. Why bicker over the petty stuff?
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Apparently yes and because that's what we do, heavy sigh.
 
A console has one purpose, consolidated gaming. Thats it. With the PC, you get superior gaming experiences if you have the hardware (3060Ti or better), you can do basically everything you desire, from creation, serious web browsing, streaming that matters, mining, dive into some serious emulator-stuff etc etc etc, SB basically summed it up nicely.
Oh and ofcourse, you can play your games how you want, you can choose to go for 120fps gaming or 30fps monsterous RT maxed high-fidelity games with all the settings individually available to you. If that doesnt suffice theres usually mods which can enhance or de-hance games to whatever your likings are. Also the ability to use whatever input method you desire from kb/m and controller to basically anything you can get your hands on. The huge backlog of games isnt a disadvantage either, neither is 'remasters' for basically every old game out there (just up the settings to your hw).
Then theres these 'indie' games like Q2RTX and demo scene stuff that i'd never want to miss out on, same for the ability to upgrade my hardware components whenever i want with whatever i want. One of the biggest advantages though is having games from Sony, MS and the pc's own games library. Usually best versions of all the platforms, in special considering mods and community.

In case of a laptop, its also portable and runs of a battery if needed. A 3070m/R5800H/32gb/144hz laptop (i tested with a asus G15) outpaces the PS5 in basically everything, it can do some serious RT and with DLSS performance is quite nice. Games tend to be cheaper on the PC aswell, much cheaper if you can wait some months (like John from DF does).

Considering all this, the value of a console falls quite short to me seeing the only thing it can do (seriously) is gaming. The PC does that (better at it) and everything else. A console needs to be accompanied by another device anyway, and seeing the cheaper games, its not so much of a difference in price. Also, i can do whatever i want with my pc, the console is quite a closed box. My hardware, my ship.
 
PSman1700 said:
A console has one purpose, consolidated gaming. Thats it. With the PC, you get superior gaming experiences if you have the hardware (3060Ti or better), you can do basically everything you desire, from creation, serious web browsing, streaming that matters, mining, dive into some serious emulator-stuff etc etc etc, SB basically summed it up nicely.
Oh and ofcourse, you can play your games how you want, you can choose to go for 120fps gaming or 30fps monsterous RT maxed high-fidelity games with all the settings individually available to you. If that doesnt suffice theres usually mods which can enhance or de-hance games to whatever your likings are. Also the ability to use whatever input method you desire from kb/m and controller to basically anything you can get your hands on. The huge backlog of games isnt a disadvantage either, neither is 'remasters' for basically every old game out there (just up the settings to your hw).
Then theres these 'indie' games like Q2RTX and demo scene stuff that i'd never want to miss out on, same for the ability to upgrade my hardware components whenever i want with whatever i want. One of the biggest advantages though is having games from Sony, MS and the pc's own games library. Usually best versions of all the platforms, in special considering mods and community.

In case of a laptop, its also portable and runs of a battery if needed. A 3070m/R5800H/32gb/144hz laptop (i tested with a asus G15) outpaces the PS5 in basically everything, it can do some serious RT and with DLSS performance is quite nice. Games tend to be cheaper on the PC aswell, much cheaper if you can wait some months (like John from DF does).

Considering all this, the value of a console falls quite short to me seeing the only thing it can do (seriously) is gaming. The PC does that (better at it) and everything else. A console needs to be accompanied by another device anyway, and seeing the cheaper games, its not so much of a difference in price. Also, i can do whatever i want with my pc, the console is quite a closed box. My hardware, my ship.
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You're going quite overboard with this.

The fact that consoles sell as well as they do, and at the prices they do, should be evidence enough that they do what they're built for quite well.

For multiplayer strategy games and shooters, I go to my [aging] gaming PC. For work I have my Macs. For my JRPGs, Nintendo exclusives, and fantasy platforms, I have my PlayStation and Switch. They're all built to do different things, and I -- and evidently many others -- wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Wesker said:
You're going quite overboard with this.

The fact that consoles sell as well as they do, and at the prices they do, should be evidence enough that they do what they're built for quite well.

For multiplayer strategy games and shooters, I go to my [aging] gaming PC. For work I have my Macs. For my JRPGs, Nintendo exclusives, and fantasy platforms, I have my PlayStation and Switch. They're all built to do different things, and I -- and evidently many others -- wouldn't have it any other way.
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There's a reason PC's/mac's sell a gazillion times more than then consoles do.
 
PSman1700 said:
There's a reason PC's/mac's sell a gazillion times more than then consoles do.
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Did you read my post?

PCs and Macs outsell consoles "by a gazillion times" because they're also/primarily used for work and education -- which almost everybody in a developed economy has to do. As I said: that's what they're built for, and that's what they do best.

But you can't deny that consoles sell in very large quantities too. Your post makes it sound like consoles sell only sell 10,000 units per year or something.
 
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