AMD: R7xx Speculation

[Pressure]

Good value proposition at MSRP, but the lack of availability and the price gouging by e-tailers means it's not really an option.

Funny, hundreds of Radeon HD 3870s are available in Denmark. Not to mention the thousands of Radeon HD 3850s. The price difference between a Geforce 8800GT (1.999 DKR) and the Radeon HD 3870 (1.499 DKR) in Denmark is almost $100, or $98 to be exact.

They've remained competitive on the strength of OEM design wins. ATi cards aren't selling to enthusiasts through retail channels, and that's going to come back and bite them in the ass eventually (I think it has already, actually).

The End-user market are an unreliable income at best and miniscule compared to the OEM design wins market, which brings in a stable income for months to come. Something that AMD really needs at this point in time.

 

[Arun]

The End-user market are an unreliable income at best and miniscule compared to the OEM design wins market

One day, I'll understand who had the good idea of making everyone believe that... Anyway, check out slide 4:
http://download.amd.com/Corporate/RickBergmanDec2007AMDAnalystDay.pdf

I'm not sure if that's volume or revenue, but fact of the matter remains that the desktop channel (which includes both end-users and small system integrators) is a huge part of the market. Now, it's important to realize this is worldwide: in the USA specifically, I'm more than willing to believe OEM share is higher than that.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Funny, hundreds of Radeon HD 3870s are available in Denmark. Not to mention the thousands of Radeon HD 3850s. The price difference between a Geforce 8800GT (1.999 DKR) and the Radeon HD 3870 (1.499 DKR) in Denmark is almost $100, or $98 to be exact.

Well that's all fine and dandy but I don't live in Denmark so I couldn't care less. If AMD and their partners are shipping high-demand products to such a small and practically irrelevant market, instead of allocating them to places they could be sold (like U.S. e-tailers/retailers) then they are even dumber than I thought.

The End-user market are an unreliable income at best and miniscule compared to the OEM design wins market, which brings in a stable income for months to come. Something that AMD really needs at this point in time.

Hmm, apparently not. Thanks for the link, Arun. I was under the impression that OEM sales accounted for more than channel sales, not the other way around.

 

[CJ]

Well that's all fine and dandy but I don't live in Denmark so I couldn't care less. If AMD and their partners are shipping high-demand products to such a small and practically irrelevant market, instead of allocating them to places they could be sold (like U.S. e-tailers/retailers) then they are even dumber than I thought.

It's not all about the US-market you know....

It's not only in Denmark that they are available... it's throughout Europe. Here in Holland HD3850s and HD3870s are readily available unlike the GF8800GT256/512 and GTS512 which are much harder to get. And the Radeons are much cheaper to boot too (HD3850 at €140, HD3870 at €179).

 

[INKster]

It's not only in Denmark that they are available... it's throughout Europe. Here in Holland HD3850s and HD3870s are readily available unlike the GF8800GT256/512 and GTS512 which are much harder to get. And the Radeons are much cheaper to boot too (HD3850 at €140, HD3870 at €179).

Well, i have to disagree.
There's no shortage of 8800 GT's 512MB or GTS 512MB around here, and their prices are always within 10 euro from their ATI counterparts.
That was the case until about two weeks ago, but not anymore.
I can get a 8800 GT from Zotac (the heavily overclocked Amp! Edition, with HDMI/DVI-audio) at roughly € 230, while the cheapest HD3870 i can find costs € 220. And there's a standard clocked 8800 GT (512MB) around € 205.
Granted, most HD3850's are cheaper than the 8800 GT 256MB edition, but there's not that big of a difference price-wise.

 

[bearmoo]

Well that's all fine and dandy but I don't live in Denmark so I couldn't care less. If AMD and their partners are shipping high-demand products to such a small and practically irrelevant market, instead of allocating them to places they could be sold (like U.S. e-tailers/retailers) then they are even dumber than I thought.

What the hell you talking about? FYI, as of now there are 4 out of a total of 6 HD3870s at newegg that's in-stock and there are 14 HD3850s that I won't even bother checking. For comparison, out of a total of 13 512MB 8800GTs, only 3 are in stock. I could also check for the G92GTS but I won't bother. You really think AMD and its partners are dumber than someeone bitching on a forum without checking for the facts?

 

[CJ]

Well, i have to disagree.
There's no shortage of 8800 GT's 512MB or GTS 512MB around here, and their prices are always within 10 euro from their ATI counterparts.

Guess it varies from country to country then.

That was the case until about two weeks ago, but not anymore.

Hmm. I wonder how that's possible, because NV only shipped one badge of GTS 512 cards. The next badge is scheduled for halfway January (some people even said it might be February before the second badge ships).

I can get a 8800 GT from Zotac (the heavily overclocked Amp! Edition, with HDMI/DVI-audio) at roughly € 230, while the cheapest HD3870 i can find costs € 220. And there's a standard clocked 8800 GT (512MB) around € 205.
Granted, most HD3850's are cheaper than the 8800 GT 256MB edition, but there's not that big of a difference price-wise.

Like I said, it looks to be different in every country. Fact still remains that it's not all that bad everywhere like Shaidar made it look like.

On a sidenote: I've been hearing stories about how NV used to have 90% of the DX10 GPU market and AMD 10%, but in the last few weeks AMD managed to climb back to 30% mostly thanks to the HD3800 Series. With AMD snatching most mobile OEM wins away from NV and the RV620 and RV635 coming along next month, this trend should continue.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I can get a 8800 GT from Zotac (the heavily overclocked Amp! Edition, with HDMI/DVI-audio) at roughly € 230, while the cheapest HD3870 i can find costs € 220.

Komplett list them down to € 205. That was without really looking.

 

[Ailuros]

On a sidenote: I've been hearing stories about how NV used to have 90% of the DX10 GPU market and AMD 10%, but in the last few weeks AMD managed to climb back to 30% mostly thanks to the HD3800 Series. With AMD snatching most mobile OEM wins away from NV and the RV620 and RV635 coming along next month, this trend should continue.

It was about damn time competition heats up again.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I'm not sure if that's volume or revenue, but fact of the matter remains that the desktop channel (which includes both end-users and small system integrators) is a huge part of the market. Now, it's important to realize this is worldwide: in the USA specifically, I'm more than willing to believe OEM share is higher than that.

AFAIK "Channel" includes SI, many of which are regiona vendors that will be shifting many units through.

 

[INKster]

Komplett list them down to € 205. That was without really looking.

I don't live in Germany.
Plus, the prices i gave had shipping costs and taxes already included...

 

[ShaidarHaran]

It's not all about the US-market you know....

Well it sure as hell isn't about tiny little European nations whose GDP is less than that of the state I live in, let alone my country My state (Minnesota) has a GDP of $234 billion, Denmark is only $198 billion. The population of each is similar.

It's not only in Denmark that they are available... it's throughout Europe. Here in Holland HD3850s and HD3870s are readily available unlike the GF8800GT256/512 and GTS512 which are much harder to get. And the Radeons are much cheaper to boot too
(HD3850 at €140, HD3870 at €179).

Holland and Denmark do not exactly fulfill the statement "throughout Europe". Inkster states they are not available where he lives.

What the hell you talking about? FYI, as of now there are 4 out of a total of 6 HD3870s at newegg that's in-stock and there are 14 HD3850s that I won't even bother checking. For comparison, out of a total of 13 512MB 8800GTs, only 3 are in stock. I could also check for the G92GTS but I won't bother. You really think AMD and its partners are dumber than someeone bitching on a forum without checking for the facts?

What an excellent first post.



1) we weren't discussing the 3850 - everyone knows by now that AMD allocated too many RV670s for HD 3850 production and not enough for HD 3870s.
2) no shit 3870s are finally in stock, they're $30-$50 over MSRP, NO ONE'S BUYING THE DAMN THINGS BECAUSE THE 8800 GT IS A BETTER VALUE!

 

[AlexV]

Well it sure as hell isn't about tiny little European nations whose GDP is less than that of the state I live in, let alone my country My state (Minnesota) has a GDP of $234 billion, Denmark is only $198 billion. The population of each is similar.



Holland and Denmark do not exactly fulfill the statement "throughout Europe". Inkster states they are not available where he lives.



What an excellent first post.



1) we weren't discussing the 3850 - everyone knows by now that AMD allocated too many RV670s for HD 3850 production and not enough for HD 3870s.
2) no shit 3870s are finally in stock, they're $30-$50 over MSRP, NO ONE'S BUYING THE DAMN THINGS BECAUSE THE 8800 GT IS A BETTER VALUE!

You certainly are prone to extremes. Now that the love affair with AMD is temporarily over, let the ass-reaming begin, eh?

I won't dwelve into the minuscule states that'll never equal the great US of A(in crime rate they certainly don't) statement, but do realise before making shoddy statements that a country like Denmark has over 1000 years of history, whilst the US have about 1/5 of that, at best, so a little respect doesn't really hurt. And economically speaking, the Asian market is probably far more significant than either the European or the American one. So anybody knows how things are going over there?

 

[Razor1]

well nvidia is very strong in India, low end and integrated, ATi has very little presence there.

 

[AlexV]

well nvidia is very strong in India, low end and integrated, ATi has very little presence there.

I was thinking more about the "China, Taiwan and the neighbourhood" area.

 

[Razor1]

ah

 

[Dave Baumann]

I don't live in Germany.

AFAIK the central warehouse is in Oslo, however it does service many countries in Europe.

 

[Gelanin]

AFAIK the central warehouse is in Oslo, however it does service many countries in Europe.

Actually its in Sandefjord, about 2h southwest of Oslo, but close enough

 

[Gelanin]

Well that's all fine and dandy but I don't live in Denmark so I couldn't care less. If AMD and their partners are shipping high-demand products to such a small and practically irrelevant market, instead of allocating them to places they could be sold (like U.S. e-tailers/retailers) then they are even dumber than I thought.

What you dont seem to realise though is that most northen european countries have a very high density of computers compared to many other places in the world. So even if we have a small population, a very high %'age of those have computers, and the money to actually buy the cards.

And for instance, if Komplett has them, then they're availible in UK, NO, DK, SE, DE, NL and probably a few other places aswell...... Which does cover a fairly substantial part of europe.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Actually its in Sandefjord, about 2h southwest of Oslo, but close enough

Oslo must have been the first point the tracking picked up my last order from! (It was some time since I bought anything from them).

And you may want to add Ireland, Austria, Belgium and France to that list.