Alternative AA methods and their comparison with traditional MSAA*

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by mitran, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. marcus_rocks

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know if anyone would argue that the jump from Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 2 is just a PR talk (they also gave a conflict statement either: 30% and sometimes they said it might be misleading to give a percentage). So it is all in our head to use inductive reasoning to figure it out. I would not jump and accuse somebody a fanboy when I don't think it through.
     
  2. patsu

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,709
    Likes Received:
    145
    Are they really contradicting ? The GT video says GoW3 used all the processors/cores, but they didn't say they use up 100% of every cores. There was another interview where the devs admitted that GoW3 does not stress the hardware as much as U2/KZ2. The average % utilization of all the SPUs could be lower than 50%.

    I think IGN said KZ2 used 60%.

    Anyway, these are very rough figures. Without understanding the exact technical context, it's hard to make any sense out of them. They are claiming that there is more headroom for growth.
     
  3. marcus_rocks

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scheduling is just one of many problems they have. Imagine if they can improve most of their algorithms?

    by the way, here is the definition of last minutes:
    http://twitter.com/TDMoss/status/9854078121
     
    #343 marcus_rocks, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  4. Ruskie

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok so you are telling me that you find Uncharted 2 looking 3 times better then UC1?Because they said its 30% with UC1,considering that UC2 was their second game on ps3,thus they probably knew what to do and what no to with hardware,but they still said they use 100% of power.But i would not be sure that UC2 looks that much better then its Uncharted 1.Sure its never optimized enough but its not like UC3 will suddenly look alot better...

    Its all rough estimates,which are not really true and i dont think anyone would argue with me if i said that if they choose to develop GOW III again they would not get much better results.
     
  5. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    And U2 was 100% that later got changed to 80%.
    True, could be avg, minimum, max or if even correct at all and not hype marketing etc.
     
  6. Ruskie

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yea you are right.It seems like when game is just to be released it uses 100% and when some time passes it suddenly is just not really optimized thus next tittle will look alot better.Those kind of things just give a fanboys false hope...
     
  7. patsu

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,709
    Likes Received:
    145
    May want to include the links or interviews for the context. Quoting numbers out of the blue is seldom a good idea.

    Both of you seem to have mixed up "processors" and "PS3 power" above. In the U2 case, 100% of what compared to 80% of what ? [confused]
     
  8. marcus_rocks

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    you can't just use elementary calculations to judge quality. But you can't deny the significant jump in quality from UC1 to UC2. That is all that matters.
    GoW3 team gave you the 50% efficiency figure, that would give an estimate of improvements in quality of the next game.

     
    #348 marcus_rocks, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  9. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    I am talking stritly CPU. For numbers just google it up and get lots of results. Or just browse the U2 thread, I am sure you already read it before. But I'll leave it there. :smile:
     
  10. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    I am done with discussion but why are you false quoting me?

    The second line I have not written.
     
  11. patsu

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,709
    Likes Received:
    145
    I did a quick google...

    The 80% PS3 power was mentioned by Kazunori when he talked about GT5:
    ... and it's still not out yet. >_<
    By the time it's released, may be it will max out PS3 like U2 ?


    Naughty Dog mentioned they used close to 100% PS3 "power" themselves:
    http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/23/uncharted-2-used-close-to-100-of-ps3s-power/


    All these are interesting but very rough estimates. However, I don't see ND contradicting themselves ? unless you can find the 80% CPU utilization quote from NaughtyDog ? I did find an earlier ND interview that predicted that U2 would use close to 100% of PS3 power.

    Note that the developers may get better as they gain more experiences. Back on topic, we know the GoW3 team is also interested in 3D vision. So there should be some spare resources lying around.
     
  12. marcus_rocks

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, s.th is wrong with the quoting function. It was Ruskie.
     
  13. Yashamaru

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
  14. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    I believe that would be a different implementation or deviation from the original, but not "beyond" it. It would have to, at least, be better, as a whole, than the original implementation (to qualify as "beyond"). What are the chances of us seeing their exact implementation for determination?
     
  15. assurdum

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    WTH of post is it? & Why someone even reply? First: it's OT. Second: SM talking of GOW engine & it use of 50 % of CPU; third, said this game it only possible on the ps3 not means automatically 50% of ps3 so double powerish of the rival. Before to talk of PR nonsense learn to read the interview.
     
    #355 assurdum, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  16. marcus_rocks

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is it not beyond when there is no drawback that is from the original implementation?
     
  17. Weaste

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Castellon de la Plana
    If I remember correctly, KZ2 wasn't fully optimised. I'm sure that I've seen a presentation from Guerilla where they say if it works, leave it alone - don't bother to optimise it. That's the key isn't it? You could keep all of the cores busy all of the time, but it doesn't mean that they are being used to their optimum level. Thus it makes such figures rather pointless.

    for( ; ; )
    {
    }

    Job done! :wink:
     
  18. T.B.

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's shader instruction scheduling, not SPU workloads. Follow the discussion on Twitter.
     
  19. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    If you are strictly talking about CPU usage, why are you piggybacking on Ruskie's post? He was clearly talking about power and not just CPU usage.

    Anyway, ND said they were probably going to use CLOSE to 100% of the CPU cycles. They, also, said that you have not seen the last improvements for their engine. ND said they just got "all the plates spinning". Now, "we can make them spin faster" (I recalled that from the G4TV interview last year). They said their systems weren't really optimized. They were just ported over to the SPUs. It may be possible for ND to get a 50% to 100% increase in overall speed of their code. Only time will tell.

    BTW, I thought GoW3 used 5 SPUs from last year's presentation. Can someone confirm or deny?

    EDIT: Here is the U2 interview. http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/6...lls-and-amy-hennig-uncharted-2-interview.html
     
    #359 Lucid_Dreamer, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
  20. Weaste

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Castellon de la Plana
    Well, they say that they use 5 for this MLAA.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...