Advice on water cooled PC *spawn*

[Mize]

Thin rads = High FPI = Needs massive air flow = Noisy

In terms of parts

EK Supreme HF is the best CPU block available
Laing 18w DDC is one of the best if not the best pumps around
EK GPU blocks are also very good

My skinny Black Ice 360 with 3x Pull, 2x Push isn't noisy at all even with my GTs running on full volts. I don't know which 3x180 Dr. Evil's got picked out, but it looks ideal for that Raven case.

As I noted before I went with Koolance on the CPU to avoid plastic under bolts and its cooling numbers match anything from EK. I have the Swiftech version of the Laing pump as I wanted threaded fittings and PWM variable pump speed which is great unless you remember to crank you fan profile before gaming as the damn loop cools the CPU so well it never ramps up but the GPUs will .

I went with XSPC GPU blocks but they have a bit more pressure drop than some others. With my setup they work extremely well, but I do have a second radiator.

 

[Mize]

I wonder how much fluid the entire setup will hold? and what sort of fluid I should use if I want it to be low maintenance, I've read arguments for all sort of different fluids and additives and some say just use tap water...

One thing I did was put a drain T on mine. If you look at the shots a page or two back you'll see it. I have a valve I can open at the bottom of the loop for quick draining.

So about fluid - flush the new loop completely with 2 changes of distilled, draining between to get any muck out from the fab processes. Then use only distilled, no additives. No matter what people may say, *any* additive, by definition, contributes to corrosion and polymer degradation of the tubes. I used silver-loaded tubing and a kill coil and haven't had any growth yet. I'll change my distilled every 6 months.

Remember when filling to rock the case side to side and forward and backward (with your reservoir closed tight of course) to fill the pockets inside. You'll be surprised how long it will take to completely fill (hours in you'll hear a burp and your reservoir level will drop making you think "oh shit, a leak!" but it's just another air pocket working its way out).

You'll loop won't be high volume - I can't say for sure, but less than 1/4 gallon I'd wager.

 

[Mize]

How many GPUs? Just one, right?
It will only make ~1-2 degree difference but I'd put the GPU right after the radiator with the CPU second as your you'll get more perf out of 1-2 degrees extra on the GPU than the CPU.

I can't emphasize enough good fans with good pressure. Those Gentle Typhoon AP15s are great.

If you find you're not getting enough cooling I've seen people put a second radiator up top on those cases and you might have room to push/pull that one. Not sure.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

How many GPUs? Just one, right?
It will only make ~1-2 degree difference but I'd put the GPU right after the radiator with the CPU second as your you'll get more perf out of 1-2 degrees extra on the GPU than the CPU.

I can't emphasize enough good fans with good pressure. Those Gentle Typhoon AP15s are great.

If you find you're not getting enough cooling I've seen people put a second radiator up top on those cases and you might have room to push/pull that one. Not sure.

Thanks for the comments!

Yeah only one GPU for now at least. My loop order was planned to be reservoir/pump > GPU > CPU > rad > reservoir/pump, isn't that basically the same as what you suggested?

I'm planning to attach the radiator directly to my case's 180mm air penetrator fans. As far as I know they should also be quite capable and the combination looks neat. I don't think I have room for push and pull for the mod I'm planning on doing to the case, maybe I could get one pull fan also in there. There is an alternate way to do this by removing the dust filters and their casings and attach the filters under the case with magnets giving me more room for fans and longer cards, but I've decided against it for now. I wish I had the Fortress 2 case as it would be slightly easier to mod, but basically this whole build is kind of a prototype learning build for me. I'm thinking I'll do a FT02 build later on with some new components as well, but for now my CPU still holds it's own pretty well.

The heat load shouldn't be excessive for this radiator as 680 runs pretty cool and it's just one card.

edit: Also about the kill coil. I'll just drop it into the reservoir and I'm good?

 

[Mize]

The air penetrators are good, not quite up to the radiator duties as the GTs, but good. If you can fit even on pull fan it will help. The FT02 is a great water cooling case, especially with some small mods.

Kill coil in the reservoir is fine (that's where mine is). Your loop looks good to. Only change I'd make if it isn't too much hassle (and it will make hardly any difference, maybe 0.5 degrees max) would be to go reservoir->pump->rad->GPU->CPU as this way the ever so slight heat added by the pump is removed before the hot parts. Again, probably no real difference, just my obsession with lowest temp water before hot parts.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Kill coil in the reservoir is fine (that's where mine is). Your loop looks good to. Only change I'd make if it isn't too much hassle (and it will make hardly any difference, maybe 0.5 degrees max) would be to go reservoir->pump->rad->GPU->CPU as this way the ever so slight heat added by the pump is removed before the hot parts. Again, probably no real difference, just my obsession with lowest temp water before hot parts.

I think that loop order should be quite doable in my setting as well, I'll have to see how it looks.

I'll take the components out of the case today and mark the parts that need to be removed. My friend will do the cutting at his work place, as there is good equipment and he should be able to make cleaner end result. I hope all the parts arrive during soon, so I get this thing up and running in a week.

 

[Davros]

googling to find out what the hell a kill coil is i found this:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1678905
seems people dont like EK

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I've read that those issues have been fixed already. They had some manufacturing issues with their nickel blocks.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

My build is progressing. I got the case back and I'm very happy with how it turned out. The cutting marks are imo very minor and I managed to save and mount the HDD holder case to the 5.25" bay.

I have received the radiator and GPU block, but I still have to wait few days for the reservoir and pump, but I can start working on it. I plan to install the GPU block today, but I haven't been able to find out whether the block is compatible with the EVGA backplate, which I have. I also don't know if I have to remove it anyway before I install the block.

I kind of accidentally also found myself having a i7 990X processor to put in there, since I got an ok deal for one. Crazy, but I'm not ready to abandon this platform yet. I'll make sure it goes out with a bang!
I'm willing to receive some amount of ridicule for it though

Can't post pictures yet as my only computer is in pieces on my table, but I'll put out few if the rig survives this.

 

[Mize]

Probably goes without saying, but I do recommend an overnight leak check on a powered, filled loop before powering up any components...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Yep I definitely have to do leak testing.

I installed the water block. The block weighs exactly 2 pounds... And almost felt more than that!

The radiator is incredibly tight fit, I have to further modify the case with metal cutters to make it align with the fan screw holes. The rad is at least an inch wider than the hole in my case it's supposed to go in, so I'll have to put it in there in a specific angle and change that angle continously while pushing it in and due to some obstacles inside the case I actually have to change the angles in more than one dimension... It's ridiculous how tight it really is.

BTW the rad is quite big, but that guy in the youtube video I linked earlier must be the world smallest man or a hobbit, because it certainly doesn't look that big over here. I Bought some distilled water today and used a liter to flush crap out of the rad and I finally got a shipping confirmation for the pump and reservoir, so It looks to be 100% certain that I'll have everything by friday.

 

[Mize]

With regard to fan holes, the easiest solution for poorly-aligned fan holes is usually to use a dremel grinding tool (the small, cone-shaped one or the metal turbine-shaped one) to elongate the chasis holes. This allows some slop without showing once the fans are mounted.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

My problem is that s part of the case is still blocking the radiator so I can't move it as far as I have to. On one side the holes in the fan are an inch too far. I need to cut a piece out from the case to be able to move it far enough. The holes itself seemed to be in right place.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The radiator is in the rig, but what a grueling battle that was, casualties on all sides... Looking at the pictures of other Raven or FT02 rigs I now understand why nobody has put that triple Magicool radiator in there, while keeping the dust filters and their holders inside the case. It turned out to be impossible for me to align everything together.

I would have had to align 3 dust filter cage holders in to the 3 dust filter cages those in to 3 fans and those fans in to the radiator and it just wasn't meant to be. I could attach three elements together, but by then the slight inplacements between the components had compounded so much that fitting the "package" into the fourth element proved to be impossible for me. New screw holes to the radiator or to the bottom of the case could solve this, but it's too much hassle for me. It was really hard and time consuming to work and align these when the space is such a huge issue and you can't see shit while doing it. Sadly I unnecessary destroyed the case a bit, while thinking it needed to be done to make everything align, but turned out the problem was elsewhere.

The result is that all the fans are connected to the radiator, but only one fan is screwed into the dust filter cage, so 2/3 of the fan/rad combo is just resting on top of the dust filter cage. I'll monitor if it resonates, but I don't think it will, if it does I have to put some small piece of rubber between the drive bay and the outermost fan.

I'm not sure whether the cpu will make its way to me by tomorrow, I should know later today though. It will suck big time if it doesn't. Have to give props to Overclockers.uk I ordered some bits from there, last order in first one to get to me. Well at least I can build the loop and do leak testing without the CPU. Pump, reservoir, tubes and silver coil arrived today.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Well it looks like I will be getting the CPU tomorrow! but to show that I wasn't kidding when I said I'm a noob in this... When I bought the tube connectors I thought that the 45 and 90 degree parts are the same as the straight compression parts except angled, but turns out you still need to plug a straight one into these angled ones! Haha, so the situation is this I have a shit ton of these adapters while missing one fitting! And because of this I can't do the leak test yet.

Also they don't sell these in every store over here, so now I have to live in fear whether I'll manage to get one tomorrow... And I'm sure this wont be my last issue with the build

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I got the final parts today, I've been leak testing for about 4h so far with no issues other than hard to get rid off air bubbles. I'll leave it on for the night and check everything in the morning. The pump is not very quiet, runs quite hot and imo feels a bit overkill for my loop. Tomorrow I'll do some cable management first and then fire up the rig.

 

[Rodéric]

I was considering water cooling too until I saw a comparison of CPU water cooling vs air cooling, although the CPU is indeed better cooled, the lack of a CPU fan means other MoBo components aren't cooled properly anymore, such as the chipset and the RAM, also the GPU if you don't connect it to your water cooling system.

Thermographic images of Water/Air cooling:
http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/ar...test-antec-kuehler-h2o-620-a-920.html?start=7

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I was considering water cooling too until I saw a comparison of CPU water cooling vs air cooling, although the CPU is indeed better cooled, the lack of a CPU fan means other MoBo components aren't cooled properly anymore, such as the chipset and the RAM, also the GPU if you don't connect it to your water cooling system.

Thermographic images of Water/Air cooling:
http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/ar...test-antec-kuehler-h2o-620-a-920.html?start=7

Water cooling setup doesn't exclude good airflow in the case. I'd go as far as saying that if you only rely on CPU fan for cooling other components, then that's not very good either, but yes you have to compensate for the loss of CPU fan if your case doesn't have good ventilation.

My case has 3 180mm fans sucking cold air at the bottom creating positive pressure inside the case accelerating the exit of hot air at the top. The fans could on their own cool a CPU with only decent size passive heat sink. Although now the radiator is blocking some of that air flow, I'm pretty sure the ventilation is still good enough.

My setup is up and running. I think I'll start a new thread and spam pictures there instead, some final goofiness included

 

[Grall]

My case has 3 180mm fans sucking cold air at the bottom creating positive pressure inside the case accelerating the exit of hot air at the top.

I'd suggest turning that flow around, for dust reasons. There's a LOT more human debris and other crap floating around at floor level than ~1m off the floor.

If you're thinking about convection helping you cool the innards of your computer, and your temps would somehow go up by not having a bottom-to-top flow - forget it. Convection is an incredibly weak force, it has no effect whatsoever in an encased volume full of disturbed air due to the presence of fans.

The fans could on their own cool a CPU with only decent size passive heat sink.

Yeah, but what about the VRMs around your CPU socket? They're not gonna be cooled by any fans at the bottom of the case (especially not with graphics card(s) in the way), and with no active air flow around the CPU they're gonna be burning hot.

RAM could get quite hot indeed too, depending on the volts and the megahurts you run them at.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I'd suggest turning that flow around, for dust reasons. There's a LOT more human debris and other crap floating around at floor level than ~1m off the floor.

If you're thinking about convection helping you cool the innards of your computer, and your temps would somehow go up by not having a bottom-to-top flow - forget it. Convection is an incredibly weak force, it has no effect whatsoever in an encased volume full of disturbed air due to the presence of fans.


Yeah, but what about the VRMs around your CPU socket? They're not gonna be cooled by any fans at the bottom of the case (especially not with graphics card(s) in the way), and with no active air flow around the CPU they're gonna be burning hot.

RAM could get quite hot indeed too, depending on the volts and the megahurts you run them at.

There are dust filters in each fan = no dust comes in. The motherboard is turned in a 90" degree angle so graphics cards or anything else is not in the way. The 180mm fans give a very direct tunnel like focused beam of cold air at the entire length of the case.