A Few Notes on Future NV Hardware

[Ichneumon]

Whatever.... you want me to prove that ATI "never" gave unreleased drivers to web-sites to use? Don't you think that it might be a little more logical for you to find ONE case where they DID?

And if they DID, then that was WRONG. So what exactly is your point?

I can assure you that at Rage3D we have never recieved any special benchmark driver from ATI... Ever... And we work with a lot of driver sets.

 

[Sxotty]

Sigh...

What really bugs me right now is HarcOCP still has a GeForceFX and is being fed stuff from nVidia to "test"....and you guys...who would put it through its proper paces like you do with all new cards...are still waiting for one...

Whether or not you believe it this site is definitely either pro ATI, or anti Nvidia, not necessarily the people who run it, but the forums are so it is really not surprising to me at all. The atmosphere people create here makes it so Nvidia will be sure to give youguys the boards last, if people don't like it then they should try to be a little less grumpy about everything nvidia does, and not attack anyone who says that they like Nvidia.

Now whether or not they(hardocp) should or should not test things is unrelated

(I have a 9500pro, and have had various ATI and Nvidia graphics cards in the past depending on what I thought best at the time, but that is how it normally works I believe)

 

[Doomtrooper]

Who are you to judge veteran members Sxotty ?? You come on here trying to tell US how to act, sorry doesn't fly.
There is reason for being skeptical, this forum is not a fan site and if Nvidia chooses not to send a card here, its their loss.

 

[Althornin]

Whether or not you believe it this site is definitely either pro ATI, or anti Nvidia, not necessarily the people who run it, but the forums are so it is really not surprising to me at all. The atmosphere people create here makes it so Nvidia will be sure to give youguys the boards last, if people don't like it then they should try to be a little less grumpy about everything nvidia does, and not attack anyone who says that they like Nvidia.

We dont attack those who say they like nVidia.
We attack people like Chalnoth sometimes, but he ADMITS to his bias, which at least makes him more honest IMO. Peop[le who have a clear IHV-favoring bias we dislike - and that means there seems to be allot of nVidia hating going on. You'll notice that plenty of people are rude to Hell and Doom because of their apparent ATI bias.

The anti-nvidia air right now is simply because nVidia built up expectations with their PR, and then failed to meet them. Right now, it looks like the vaunted GFFX is more flexible shader-wise than ATI's card (a plus), but its also slower at executing those same shaders. The disappointment tinges all discussion, and has resulted in some negative backlash - understandably.

People are also tired of this "Test with THESE drivers (wink wink)" from nVidia. We've seen it happen before - and we disliked it then.

If ATI handed out new drivers to ONLY review sites upon the release of the GFFX, and said "pssst. use THESE!" you can bet i'd have been unhappy about it.
So would most people here.

They didnt.
nVidia did.

Allot of people are disgruntled with nVidia for so-called "underhanded" business tactics, like the GF4MX (and ATI got jumped on for thier change in naming schema, when people thought the first number of the model number meant DX version, and the 9000 came out) and the driver releasing to review sites. That, along with their failure to keep their low end products technically updated (no PS, etc) has irked alot of us.

All they need to do is to cease using said tactics to regain our trust.

 

[MuFu]

The anti-nvidia air right now is simply because nVidia built up expectations with their PR, and then failed to meet them.

Exactly - I can't think of a forum better educated to reflect the current state of the industry than this one. It's not bias, it's just an informed opinion.

MuFu.

 

[Doomtrooper]

There is nothing wrong with being a fan of a certain brand as long as you have a open mind, everyone has a favorite brand of car, Tv , Toaster..whatever.

 

[MuFu]

I love my Jit-Pong 5900 Uber-Toaster FXL GTS Turbo 16v.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Mine is a standard GE 4 slicer...bummer..I need a upgrade.

 

[MuFu]

I say "love it", but something fishy is going on...

In "two slice" mode it's only outputting one piece of toast per clock!

 

[Tahir2]

I say "love it", but something fishy is going on. In "two slice" mode it's only outputting one piece of toast per clock!

Yea but it does it twice as quick.
MuFu you should have waited for the GTi version, out in a few months, I heard it will be twice as fast (again).

 

[demalion]

Sigh...

What really bugs me right now is HarcOCP still has a GeForceFX and is being fed stuff from nVidia to "test"....and you guys...who would put it through its proper paces like you do with all new cards...are still waiting for one...

Whether or not you believe it this site is definitely either pro ATI, or anti Nvidia, not necessarily the people who run it, but the forums are so it is really not surprising to me at all.

I'd call that honesty, and not being swayed by ignorance or the need to pander to IHVs.

Consider for one millisecond the remote possibility that there is what you describe as an atmosphere of hostility because of actions nvidia themselves has taken.

The atmosphere people create here makes it so Nvidia will be sure to give youguys the boards last,

So of course we should avoid having the opinion that their actions deserve criticism, regardless of what those actions are, yes?

if people don't like it then they should try to be a little less grumpy about everything nvidia does,

Yes, the moderators should work to stamp out the idea of independent thought, of course. Or you could, yourself, be a "little less grumpy" about people holding a different opinion about nvidia than the one you think appropriate, and maybe focus your attention on whether you can address the reasons they have for holding those opinions.

and not attack anyone who says that they like Nvidia.

Hmm, did you just misword that, and mean "everyone"? I agree that people should never be attacked for liking nvidia. I do not agree at all that liking nvidia should be some sort of shield against having your position attacked if your reasoning is considered questionable.

Now whether or not they(hardocp) should or should not test things is unrelated

Hmm...actually, it is quite directly related to a lot of things discussed here, so could you clarify what you have in mind exactly? Perhaps I'm just missing the proper context.

(I have a 9500pro, and have had various ATI and Nvidia graphics cards in the past depending on what I thought best at the time, but that is how it normally works I believe)

So you should be interested in maintaining in honest and informed (a relative term) discourse about 3D technology, shouldn't you?

As an aside Doomtrooper, I don't agree with the idea of post count having anything at all to do with what you can say or who you can say it to . Criticize the content, don't play status games...if you think the post count or registration date of a poster has relevance, provide the context, don't use it as a blanket dismissal.

 

[Reverend]

Rev, do you approve of [H]'s and other web-sites testing GeForceFX with detonator drivers that are not available to the public?

Not in the context of an official GeForce FX review. I am all for such articles as long as proper investigations are made and revealed. You shouldn't make an article, however, using any such drivers that are evidently made for one specific app/game without testing the same drivers on all other apps. It's information, however, regardless. You just have to be careful in not making it product review.

NOTE : Many sites have been given access to these drivers (including Beyond3D) and since then two additional emails have arrived saying such drivers shouldn't be given access to the public.

 

[Pete]

This discussion of dis/approving beta driver use with an FX:U is surreal. The card isn't even being sold yet! I agree only released drivers should be used with retail reviews, but as the card isn't even available for purchase....

Still, didn't [H] test with both a released and unreleased set? So that sort of nullifies any criticism, no?

MuFu and Tahir:

 

[demalion]

don't agree with the idea of post count having anything at all to do with what you can say or who you can say it to

Thats nice.

Sorry its called respect, you don't join a forum and start pointing fingers and accusations at veteran members.

I'd call "respect" the idea that you don't make unfounded, spurious accusations and arguments against anyone, and try to recognize the content of what anybody says. Where did post count come into the picture?

Very basic of most forum edicate...I don't agree at all.

Your idea of forum etiquette is based on an observation of the result, not the problem. When some "newbie" comes in and makes a "silly statement" to a "veteran", the problem is the statement was silly, not that they were a newbie. Just because in your experience "newbies" do that type of thing quite often (hey, I've read Rage3D forums too, ya know), doesn't mean all "newbies" are the problem.

If you think someone's post count has relevance to a problem in their post, maybe like they missed a discussion (the only way I personally could equate the significance of post count to someone like Dave H, for example), it is up to you to provide the relevance...no general relevance at all can just be assumed.

P.s Don't tell me what to do...thx.

Yikes, you have over twice the post count I do! I don't know what I was thinking, sir, speaking so to my betters!

I'd forgotten that you had a special "Only I can 'tell people what to do'" dispensation due to your status, sir.

 

[Nagorak]

Someone dial 9-1-1, there's a fire burning out of control!

 

[Evildeus]

I don't know about future, but the first FX cards are being sold... oh yes it's the quadro FX 1000

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/product....ory_name=Video+Card&product_id=3D-PNYQFX10000

 

[Evildeus]

They didnt.
nVidia did.

Yes, but we don't know what they did to the catalist 3.0 as they were still in the beta program till the end. Have you any idea? I don't.

PS: Bur right now, i would prefer to work for Ati than Nvidia, you know of whom you can make fun

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Rev,

You shouldn't make an article, however, using any such drivers that are evidently made for one specific app/game without testing the same drivers on all other apps.

Agreed. And again, to take it further, I don't think using such drivers is OK if they are not made available to the public...

NOTE : Many sites have been given access to these drivers (including Beyond3D) and since then two additional emails have arrived saying such drivers shouldn't be given access to the public.

The question, of course, is "why?" If nVidia feels they are "good enough" to run benchmarks on for the public to see, they should be good enough for the public to use.

 

[John Reynolds]

Rev,

The question, of course, is "why?" If nVidia feels they are "good enough" to run benchmarks on for the public to see, they should be good enough for the public to use.

I'm not sure if other IHVs are guilty of this, too, but Nvidia has a history of offering 'special, never to be seen by the public' drivers to reviewers when competitors launch new products.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Yesm I know...I specifically recall the AnandTech debacle when they published new benchmarks to counter the Radeon 8500 launch...