DerekBaker
Newcomer
420XT at the inq
- Thread starter DerekBaker
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Joe DeFuria
Legend
If true, I'm (as usual) a little disappointed in the memory clocks ATI is pushing...speaking from an enthusiast perspective. 500/1000 Mhz was available 18 months ago...even if only in dustbuster format. 
I'd really like to see ATI put out a flagship, even if it's little more than a "PR Card", that utilizes bleeding edge memory speed. Make it strictly a retail based solution, even if it's only directly sold through ATI. (This is the same sort of "complaint" I've lodged with PowerVR in the past.)
That being said, ATI is likely staying true to their "keep OEMs happy with respect to power consumption, heat generation, and cooling requirements" roots, which is understandable. However, I still think the PR value of a "this is what we could do if we ignore OEM guidelines" would be worth an additional, limited edition, SKU.
I'd really like to see ATI put out a flagship, even if it's little more than a "PR Card", that utilizes bleeding edge memory speed. Make it strictly a retail based solution, even if it's only directly sold through ATI. (This is the same sort of "complaint" I've lodged with PowerVR in the past.)
That being said, ATI is likely staying true to their "keep OEMs happy with respect to power consumption, heat generation, and cooling requirements" roots, which is understandable. However, I still think the PR value of a "this is what we could do if we ignore OEM guidelines" would be worth an additional, limited edition, SKU.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
991060 said:Maybe there will be an extreme edition of R420 for hardcore gaming guys.
Well, according to The Inq, the 420 XT is the extreme edition.
I'll bet those are the conservative clocks. Remember the 9800 XT? They kept the standard clocks low so they could appeal to the OEMs. They should still have Overdrive available, and perhaps this time they won't be as conservative. And that 500 MHz was the Dawn of the Dustbuster cooler. I'll bet R420 at 500 MHz will still have a single slot cooling solution. But, there is much more to performance than pure MHz. Clock for clock, R360 has more processing power than NV35.
I'll take some Uber ATI pipelines at 500 MHz please.
I'll take some Uber ATI pipelines at 500 MHz please.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
CyFactor said:
That's a good point, though I'm skeptical of Overdrive ever approaching significant clock increases over the core. The reason why ATI is conservative, is because they need to "guarantee" operation at overclocked speeds....if they can do that...why don't they just make those speeds stock?
I agree...but that's kind of my point. I'd like to see ATI go ahead and use a two slot cooling variant for the Retail space (as long as it's not dustbuster loud), if that enables them to use 700 Mhz memory and higher core clocks.
No argument there...but that's not really my point. A 600/1400 R420 is going to be much faster than a 500/1000 variant. Particularly with AA enabled.
Personally I think all the rumors and numbers flying around the last few days are more or less just positioning and posing by ATi & nVidia for each other trying to psych the other guy out and mislead 'em about the actual card's stats.
nVidia has been swinging the "we got the ball-busting, 16-pipe, ATi killing card" and ATi is going with the "golly, they're card looks VERY fast and ours isn't so hot!" approach to try and lull nVidia into a false sense of security.
I don't think we've heard the truth about either card yet.
nVidia has been swinging the "we got the ball-busting, 16-pipe, ATi killing card" and ATi is going with the "golly, they're card looks VERY fast and ours isn't so hot!" approach to try and lull nVidia into a false sense of security.
I don't think we've heard the truth about either card yet.
Joe DeFuria said:
OEM power requirments, I thought we were agreed?
Actually, I'm looking forward to this in association with what sireric was kind enough to respond to in some questions (and to my speculation he did not respond to as well). In short, I expect more of the technical features of mobility power saving to be turned on their head for higher performance desktop parts (most of this revolves around some unsubstantiated guessing about the auto-overclocking that failed to materialize for the XT models).
Joe DeFuria
Legend
demalion said:
Yes I know what you're saying, but if the card can officially be run in a manner that does NOT meet oem power requirements, then does it really meet oem power requirements?
oeLangOetan
Newcomer
Seriously, anyone could have made those speculations
and considering it’s the inq, just forget about the 500/1000
and considering it’s the inq, just forget about the 500/1000
Joe DeFuria said:If true, I'm (as usual) a little disappointed in the memory clocks ATI is pushing...speaking from an enthusiast perspective. 500/1000 Mhz was available 18 months ago...even if only in dustbuster format.
I'd really like to see ATI put out a flagship, even if it's little more than a "PR Card", that utilizes bleeding edge memory speed. Make it strictly a retail based solution, even if it's only directly sold through ATI. (This is the same sort of "complaint" I've lodged with PowerVR in the past.)
That being said, ATI is likely staying true to their "keep OEMs happy with respect to power consumption, heat generation, and cooling requirements" roots, which is understandable. However, I still think the PR value of a "this is what we could do if we ignore OEM guidelines" would be worth an additional, limited edition, SKU.
I think ATI needs one of those too...
digitalwanderer said:I don't think we've heard the truth about either card yet.
Ding, ding, ding! Johnny, tell him what he's won!
As far as dual slot cooling, I'm sure HIS would be happy to oblige again (they did it with the 9800 series). ATI doesn't manufacture their own cards (except AiW) anymore, so it's pretty much up to the board partners to decide on the cooling solutions, provided they even deviate from ATI's reference design.
man, those memory clocks suck, especially if NV40 really is using 600Mhz DDR2. BAH. ATI, when will you learn?
(PS--what are the odds that RV420 or whatever that variant is will have 325Mhz RAM )
(PS--what are the odds that RV420 or whatever that variant is will have 325Mhz RAM
)Joe DeFuria said:
Well, there is the question of what Overdrive is meant to accomplish, and this seems like a solid answer. It would just have to continue to evolve from where it is now, which seems a likely intent.
There are at least a few possible answers ATI has available to them if this is the plan:
- An OEM id flag that differentiates what the drivers expose as the maximum.
- A differentiation by obscurity and user technical knowledge, such as a registry entry that can unlock scaling functionality.
- Prominent warning messages.
- Wishful thinking: A new feature that has some ability to indicate stability of operation at a certain clock speed, such as perhaps power fluctuation tracking. This depends on how consistently power supplies will indicate their limitations in way that can be monitored, though.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
The Baron said:(PS--what are the odds that RV420 or whatever that variant is will have 325Mhz RAM
You think it'll be that high? 8)
Joe DeFuria said:991060 said:Maybe there will be an extreme edition of R420 for hardcore gaming guys.
Well, according to The Inq, the 420 XT is the extreme edition.
While it's certainly a treat for the OEMs I think we can't rule out AIBs and their own designs -- Abit, Asus etc. What I'm saying is that maybe ATI did leave some more room on the memory -- if Inq's story is true
Well, 'cept the stuff I said. What I said was 100%, absolutely, positively, without-a-doubt, bang-on what I was thinking at the time. 8)Chalnoth said:
