[360, PS3] BF:BC2 and BF 1943 online

Games that are significantly more skill based than your average fps games, are very fast paced games that allow very high sensitivity, for example Q3:A\UT. elite Q3:A players would destroy elite CS players 1vs1 simply because they have learned to aim accurately at much higher paces than CS offers (given that the Q3:A players get enough time to learn maps etc in cs)

I don't disagree. As for why CS is more skill-based it may just be because of higher finesse allowed by mouse controls (so let's see what happens when Valve brings CS2 to PC/360 :D). I haven't really seen CoD4 played at the highest levels like I have CS (not me, but I was CPL/CAL nerd ages ago), or really seen much of PC CoD4 at all to be able to tell. I generally measure whether a game is skill-based by seeing how much a single phenomenal player can upset a game balance. In UT or Quake, such a player could dominate a game filled with even good players. In CS there's a lot of that too (which is just helped by no respawning) but it's more uneven thanks to luck. Contrast that with Battlefield, any Battlefield -- infantry just can't blaze through enemies unless they're braindead or you're incredibly lucky. I think that this is entirely by design -- it forces teamplay on you (which is a whole different story, thanks to inflexible squads and stupid players).
 
I don't disagree. As for why CS is more skill-based it may just be because of higher finesse allowed by mouse controls

Huh?

You are saying that CS is more skilled based because it uses a mouse? While a mouse offers higher precision this has nothing to do with a game being skill-based or not.

What determines this is how much of the outcome is a result from skill, and how much of the outcome is based on luck\randomness, not your controller device. A good measure of that would be, as you say how much a player can upset game balance - and absolutely nothing to do with the game being played with a mouse or gamepad.


haven't really seen CoD4 played at the highest levels

While im not at the highest level, i cannot remember a day where i have not averaged between 30-70% of my teams kills in CoD4 (but this goes for most FPS games i try ). Single players can upset game balance by a fenomenal factor.

. I generally measure whether a game is skill-based by seeing how much a single phenomenal player can upset a game balance.

Then why on earth do you say that CS is more skill based based on input device? That doesn't determine anything - everyone has the same input device when playing the game.
 
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Huh?

You are saying that CS is more skilled based because it uses a mouse? While a mouse offers higher precision this has nothing to do with a game being skill-based or not.

Well, keep in mind my comparison was between console and PC games. Maybe CoD4 on PC is just as hardcore as CS.

And to explain why I used the mouse as a reference, it's because I think the learning curve is essentially the other thing that defines a 'skill' game. The difference between a bad player and a good player in UT is vast. It's much less so in CS -- your movements are much more limited, your weapons are more limited. And that's where a superior input device comes in... it makes the learning curve longer and steeper. Being incredibly, incredibly precise with a gun becomes a differentiating factor and part of what allows an excellent CS player to blaze through an enemy team. In fact, it's most of what you do in CS, skill-wise -- learning how to aim properly to compensate for the stupid recoil. The rest is essentially using the railgun on slower-moving targets.

I don't even like counterstrike much (it was usually my 'can't find a good server in other games' game), but I recognize how crazily twitch it is for folks who are into/good at it.

And to tie this back into the topic, BF's learning curve has always been fairly shallow, as far as infantry goes. It's even more shallow in BC, with no prone button and no possibility to dolphin dive. Not saying there's no skill in BF at all, because choppers and airplanes in good hands were ridiculous, and I see why people dislike BF's lower reliance on vehicles. I disagree, but that's because I prefer more focus on team-based objective-heavy games.

What determines this is how much of the outcome is a result from skill, and how much of the outcome is based on luck\randomness, not your controller device. A good measure of that would be, as you say how much a player can upset game balance - and absolutely nothing to do with the game being played with a mouse or gamepad.

While im not at the highest level, i cannot remember a day where i averaged between 30-70% of my teams kills in CoD4 (but this goes for most FPS games i try). Single players can upset game balance by a fenomenal factor.

Maybe Call of Duty 4 is incredibly skill-based, then. I have no way of knowing, I may have been talking out of my ass. I still hesitate in saying a console shooter is on par with a PC one, but it could happen.

Then why on earth do you say that CS is more skill based based on input device? That doesn't determine anything - everyone has the same input device when playing the game.

That's true, I was comparing across games, though.
 
And to explain why I used the mouse as a reference, it's because I think the learning curve is essentially the other thing that defines a 'skill' game...

Being incredibly, incredibly precise with a gun becomes a differentiating factor and part of what allows an excellent CS player to blaze through an enemy team..

But this applies to any game regardless of input device.

In order to be good at a console shooter, you also have to learn to aim.

Being precice at aiming (relative to other players) with the gamepad is the exact same differentiating factor as it is in a PC game with a mouse.

Hence my argument that input device has nothing to do with how skilled-based a game is, because you still have to learn to aim regardless of input device.


And that's where a superior input device comes in... it makes the learning curve longer and steeper.

Huh. Mouse aiming does not have a longer\steeper learning curve, if anything its much harder to be able to aim precicely with that little right thumb analog stick than it is with a mouse (hence why the mouse is the superior input device)
 
$15

Battlefield 1943 hits the trenches this June for $15

When the first trailer for Battlefield 1943 released, we were instantly pumped for the game. Multiplayer shooters are fun, but DICE made the right call by including tons of explosions and dudes getting shot in the face in the game's debut trailer. Now, we're happy to report that the game will arrive on XBLA and PSN (1200/$15) sometime this June (PC gamers get it in September).

Battlefield 1943 features three different tropical locales: Wake Island, Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima, and gamers can play as either the US Marines or Imperial Japanese Navy in matches supporting up to 24 players.
 
If we're talking skill based...

The old Rainbow 6 and Ghost Recon (before advanced warfighter, bleh) were far more skill based than any FPS released in the last 10 years IMO.

Where's the skill in being able to absorb a ton of hits and instantly hit just about anything from the hip?

At least in the old RB6 and GR you had to be careful use cover and even listen if you wanted to live and survive. Not to mention actually having to deal with the drawbacks of each weapon type in addition to its benefits.

Although I supposed I'm far more inclined to think a game is more skill based the more it reflects on reality.

And argument can obviously be made that any game you pick is skill based. From UT with instagib one shot kills to Quake 2 and being able to time armor/health/ammo spawns...

Still personally, I don't think anything other than maybe counterstrike comes close to the skill that the orignal Rainbow 6 and Ghost Recon required.

Regards,
SB
 
Battlefield 1943 in-depth

for $15, it's a no-brainer, but if the playing is all fast twitch (as it sounds) I'll probably end up in Op Flashpoint instead.

With Cod WaW and Halo3 I have my library full of fast twitch arcade online. Mow if I find a hook, graphical supremacy, game modes etc, then it may be a different story but 3 maps is limited.



Replenish ammunition

Many people have been wondering how our “unlimited ammunition” works. Unlimited ammunition is really an unfortunate word, replenish explains much better what we want to do! Imagine yourself running around trying to find a crate to fill up your ammo, but instead the crate comes to you!

Bundles

The AT rifle and Rifle grenades have about 2-3 shots in each “bundle”. You can fire one rocket, reload and then fire another rocket pretty fast. But when your “bundle” is emptied a timer starts ticking, this is the replenish time. The time is being carefully monitored and tweaked under our playtests! Imagine yourself that under this time you would otherwise be forced to run 100m to the nearest ammunition crate, and then run 100m back again to be able to fire your next round. Running back and forward like that is no fun! With replenish you wont get any grenade or AT spam. And even if the snipers have “unlimited” ammunition they have been proven to be found pretty fast under our playtests so there is no exploit there either!

The system have been proven to work great under our playtests and we have people from hardcore ace pilots to dedicated snipers. So once again you will have to trust us with this one. We wanted to test something new and it’s the same principal with the regenerating health-system we have. Which have been proven to work great in other games also. All the changes we have made is to remove all the obstacles that would have stopped you from firing at your enemy!

Classes

As you have seen we have “only” three classes. We choose this because we wanted to make three very distinct classes, and it’s also a lot easier to balance three classes than for example seven classes. Many of course misses the “medic” class but with regenerating health we couldn’t find any good area for this class and the regenerating health, in this game, overrules the medic class in this case.

Infantry and Rifleman have grenades, Scout have expack. All classes have some kind of melee weapon. Infantry have a wrench, Rifleman a bayonet and the Japanese Scout have a katana sword!

  • Infantry: Close combat soldier, your run-and-gun type. Suites beginners very well that want to spray with the Thompson SMG. But he is also the only support-class with his repairing wrench and the most effective anti-vehicle soldier with his AT rifle!
  • Rifleman: Best in the middle range distance. Have a semi-auto (M1 Garand) and iron sight. The class for the more skilled player that wants to have the best control of his shots. Also have Rifle grenades against soldiers and any walls that may be in the way!
  • Scout: The sniper class. For all the lone wolves
    wink.gif
    Equipped with a pistol for those close combat situations and expacks to blow up.. yeah, anything!

Theoretically all classes can take out a tank sooner or later but I wouldn’t go against a tank as Rifleman, but with expacks you also need to get pretty close to do any damage…
 
for $15, it's a no-brainer

I could get better games with more content for nearly the same price. I just bought BF:BC new for $20, Warhawk is easy to find under $20, etc.

This sounds like a dumbed down cash-in for those console folks who think DD money is not real money.
 
I could get better games with more content for nearly the same price. I just bought BF:BC new for $20, Warhawk is easy to find under $20, etc.

This sounds like a dumbed down cash-in for those console folks who think DD money is not real money.

maybe... but I blow $15 on a whim all the time :devilish: .... it's certainly not gonna stop me from spending it on what could potentially be 100+ hours of play time considering I already am a fan of the series and the Frostbite engine. :LOL:

I played the chit out of BF:BC and BF:MC
 
Why don't we all just get it for the PC in Sept? I could totally go for some Wake Island action, and it would be fun to shoot some B3D members. :)

DICE has lost the benefit of doubt with me regarding the console versions of BF. If there is a demo, I'll try it. If not, it's a definite "no buy".
 
Why don't we all just get it for the PC in Sept? I could totally go for some Wake Island action, and it would be fun to shoot some B3D members. :)

DICE has lost the benefit of doubt with me regarding the console versions of BF. If there is a demo, I'll try it. If not, it's a definite "no buy".


I had heard a demo is coming but not sure if it's true
 
oh snap! BF:BC2

trailer

interview

screens

Although Rush is a familiar feature for those who played Bad Company, Port Valdez's snowy landscape is a marked departure from the green forests and brown desert maps that made up the first game's combat zones. But once again, vehicles are your best option for traversing the terrain. On this map, we spotted the tanks and helicopters that you'd expect, plus a new vehicle in the form of a four-wheel ATV. These zippy little quads are much quicker and nimbler than the vehicles seen in the first Bad Company, which seems to add a bit more unpredictability when you see one flying around the corner. They make it easier to get from point to point, but unlike taking a seat in an armored jeep, you're pretty much a sitting duck on one of these things....

Upping the pace of combat is one of the new goals for DICE. One way the company is seeking to do this is by making players a bit easier to kill, which in turn makes the flow of deaths and respawns a bit faster. The medic needle that was used to restore health in the first game has been done away with in favor of regenerating health, but when you take damage it takes a good, long while to restore yourself--noticeably longer than other shooters that sport regenerating health. You'll also see a streamlined control system that includes the ability to knife people with a dedicated melee button, keeping you from having to switch from gun to knife and back again.
The class system has been given a bit of a jumble, with the number of roles dropping from five to four. Those featured in Bad Company 2 will be Assault (traditional soldier class), Engineer (repair vehicles), Recon (sniper), and Medic (heal your teammates with a defibrillator). But despite the fact that the number of classes has been reduced, you're actually given quite a bit more flexibility with additional customizable kits. Not only can you mix and match primary and secondary weapons more easily across different classes, but you can also customize a good many parts of your gun such as the scope and grenade-launcher type....


During the course of battles, you'll notice that the game's destruction engine has been improved. In the first Bad Company, you could destroy the walls of a building to your heart's content, but no matter how many grenades you lobbed at it, the frame of the building would remain stubbornly intact. Now you can take down entire buildings with enough persistence, whereas on a smaller scale, cover will chip away more realistically if you continue hiding behind a small object for long enough while being fired on. This should help to further increase the frantic level of combat even as the maximum number of players remains at 24....more
 
trailer and in game Multiplayer (off screen) video

lot's of new changes

Simultaneous PC & console release
Gold Rush game mode has been renamed to just “Rush”
Snowy map in screens and video called Port Valdez
Medic class can revive teammates with a defibrillator within 5 (10?) seconds of them dying. Defibrillator is an unlock
Health injector removed. Health regenerates on its own.
Highly improved squad system. 4 person squads with your squad mates names viewable in the lower HUD
No user controllable jets
More spread out achievements tied to unlocks
Highly customizable weapons
More gadgets
6-8 crates per map
More game modes coming in addition to Rush and Conquest
No mod support since there are no tools for the Frostbite engine
Details on PC version will be released later
New vehicles such as very fast 4-wheelers. Holds 2.
More blood, more serious Battlefield game
There will be a type of artillery
Destruction 2.0 allows you to chip away at cover and completely destroy buildings
Spotting enemies works a little differently. To spot you press the back button (on Xbox 360) and the enemy will show up on your squad’s mini map.
Ammo crates have been removed. You must now get ammo packs from an engineer.
4 kits - assault, recon, medic, engineer
 
Interesting twist on releasing new DLC for a game :D

EA ANNOUNCES BATTLEFIELD 1943 COMMUNITY CHALLENGE THAT UNLOCKS ADDITIONAL BONUS MAP “CORAL SEA”

Guildford, UK – May 29, 2009 – DICE, an Electronic Arts Inc. studio (NASDAQ: ERTS), today announced that Battlefield 1943™ will kick off a worldwide community challenge that, when achieved, will reward players by unlocking a fourth map called Coral Sea. The WWII Coral Sea map will be unlocked when the multiplayer community achieves 43M kills on Xbox Live and the same number on PlayStation®Network. When it ships this summer, Battlefield 1943 will include three maps (Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, and Wake Island) plus this fourth bonus map, all for $15.

Coral Sea is designed to showcase the intense battle in the skies, offering an all-new Air superiority game mode. The legendary WWII action this map provides will have players dog fighting in this airplanes-only map, proving once again DICE delivers on a first class online vehicle warfare experience better than anyone else! Players will be able to track the progress of their respective console communities at www.battlefield.com/1943.
 
The trailer for BF:BC2 looks cool ! Is that the PC version or the console version?

I am enjoying BF:BC a lot these days. I find it a lot of in MP, like Warhawk ! I love the nonserious tone they chose for the game :) !
 
I am enjoying BF:BC a lot these days. I find it a lot of in MP, like Warhawk ! I love the nonserious tone they chose for the game :) !

I played the MP of BF:BC off and on excessively since release last June (still play it) and recently started the SP campaign (on Hard :p) and man is it good!

the large map areas, rather than corridors, give you much terrain to navigate and paths to choose to overcome the enemies. the style of the 3 characters and the great voice acting and comments make you feel like you are in a squad. the feeling of a realistic battle and the shooting are all present. The gold and weapon collectibles add an element as well.

alll in all a very under-rated, top playing game IMO. I am on pins and needles for BF 1943 and will absolutely play the BF:BC2 SP as well now. The graphics are also under rated IMO, The destructibility although less realistic than Red Faction does affect game play.
 
The no jets, no map editor, and no mention of 4 player coop make me frown but what they showd looks good. Maybe we can get them to support a flight stick for the helos :p
 
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