35 reasons NOT to give up on the Wii

[Platon]

Well, as any just released console the big hitters will take some time to get here and there sure will be those even though they might not be able to compete with the audiovisual fidelity of the PS3/xbox360 titles. In the mean time, and especially now, induced by Wiis stunning sales I am sure we will see loads of crappy attempts for a quick cash in using the controller for innovative gamming, I wonder what is next, Uncle Jacks jack off contest?

Anyway, my girlfriend is not a gamer, the past experience in gamming was limited to jumping around with Mario when she was young, still she would like us to get a Wii, from a friend descrbing how fun it was to play a boxing game on it, to watching Conan play tennis with Williams, Wii is getting a lot of attention from all kind of "consumer groups". I wouldn't mind getting one of them as well, but I was hopping for the price to go down a bit, although for that to happen I guess one should be able to find them first...

 

[archangelmorph]

I guess this is a good place for Dvorak's take on the Wii (yahoo news/pc magazine).

The problem is the Wii can't realistically ride on the back of the novelty of it's controller forever..

Eventually this novelty will wear off and what will wii gamers be left with..?

A familiar controller for a limited hardware platform with no support for HD and a pretty weak software library..?

Wii games absolutely NEED to grow in terms of depth and quality otherwise I doubt the system will sell very well at all going into 2008/2009 when the Xbox360 and PS3 have seriously picked up momentum, have massive software libraries jam packed with visually stunning, richly engaging software and a very wide range of extra services (online, Bluray, IPTV etc..) all for reduced price points (than what we currently have)..

To me the problem with the Wii at the moment is developer and publisher mindshare towards it.. Most see it as a "party game's console" where companies can spend minimal budgets to develop small-scale quirky titles and make a quick buck.. This to me is REALLY sad, especially since nintendo dont seem to be doing anything to change this perception AND it only hurts those proper gamers who migrated from the Gamecube in the hopes that the innovative controller for the wii could give them much deeper, richer gaming experiences, only to find shallow ones with no lasting appeal where the focus is on "how can I make the player use this controller in a different way" rather than "how can I craft this amazing game experience which sits as an evolution on what has been done before and really utilises the wii-mote to provide a much greater degree of immersion and depth that can only be given by such a platform"..

I'm really sick of seeing people label the Wii as a console which is focused on "fun" because you only have to read the reviews of some (if not most) of the wii titles out in comparison to the other next gen consoles, to see how "fun" it actually is (especially after more than 1 hr of play..)

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Eventually this novelty will wear off and what will wii gamers be left with..?

I dont really understand how you can make such a comment since its exactly the same with ps3/x360. After paying on those for a while your not impressed by the gfx anymore also. It looks ''normal'' to you.

And why would the novelty wearing of be a bad thing? after that it could become a system better suited for (some) games than a normal controller. Having Red steel I already know I like the wiimote a million times better than analoge stick shooters. Same goes for exite truck. Not a super game but the controller is good and I can see how a system like this would make a game like GT alot better because the steering is more fun and accurate.

A familiar controller for a limited hardware platform with no support for HD and a pretty weak software library..?

Well I dont think you can judge the libary after only 3 months, give it some time. By the end of this year, beginning of next year we'll see the ''real'' wii games.

 

[archangelmorph]

I dont really understand how you can make such a comment since its exactly the same with ps3/x360. After paying on those for a while your not impressed by the gfx anymore also. It looks ''normal'' to you.

And why would the novelty wearing of be a bad thing? after that it could become a system better suited for (some) games than a normal controller. Having Red steel I already know I like the wiimote a million times better than analoge stick shooters.

Did you even read the read of my post?

The problem with the Wii is that once the novelt of its "newness factors" (i.e. the controller) wear off, there aren't enough games with the depth and richness gamers like to see which is a problem..

Well I dont think you can judge the libary after only 3 months, give it some time. By the end of this year, beginning of next year we'll see the ''real'' wii games.

But will we??

That's the question I don't think you can be so confident to answer! As I expressed, unless nintendo actually does something to hcange the mindset of developers and publishers with regards to the platform, we may never see the games we always wanted to see on the Wii, or if we do, they may be in such a limited supply that it hurts the platform library as a whole (especially in comparison to the other platforms which already have excellent software and sh**loads more coming down the pipe)..

Same goes for exite truck. Not a super game but the controller is good and I can see how a system like this would make a game like GT alot better because the steering is more fun and accurate.

Exactly my point.. Excite truck clearly focuses on the controller and not providing any kind of "complete" or "rich" gaming experience.. Sure it's control system would work wonders on a game like GT but if such a game never comes to the platform then this attempt at defending it just doesn't work..

 

[inefficient]

It's a shame there wasn't 36 reasons.

 

[Teasy]

Did you even read the read of my post?

The problem with the Wii is that once the novelt of its "newness factors" (i.e. the controller) wear off, there aren't enough games with the depth and richness gamers like to see which is a problem..

The problem with PS3 is that once the novelty of its graphics wears off (which would be instantly for many since PC's have been doing similar graphics for a while now) there aren't enough games with the depth and richness gamers like to see.... Get it?, Wii is a new console just like PS3, of course it doesn't have a big catalogue of good games yet...

Also I think you'll find that at this point lack of good games isn't a problem for Wii, while it is a big problem for PS3 (look at sales).

 

[archangelmorph]

Also I think you'll find that at this point lack of good games isn't a problem for Wii, while it is a big problem for PS3 (look at sales).

Your arguement is flawed because of two reasons..:-

A) Wii is selling well because of the novelty of it's "newness" to market, Zelda, the controller and an affordable pricing strategy and not because of any form of abundance of quality software.. I'm sure you'll struggle to find a Wii owner to date that has purchased more than 5 titles for the console since it's launch..

B) PS3 IS selling well (albeit not AS well as Wii but astoundingly well for a £400+ games console) because of the potential of the hardware, a promise of a great online services, a promise of great software on its way and blu-ray..

So by that logic i'm sure you can see that it's really the PS3 which doesn't have a problem due to lack of quality software.. (& it probably never will as AAA titles are gauranteed to come in droves..)

Sure the Wii doesn't have a problem (sales-wise) now.. but in 8 months time if we don't get many more sw announcements or quality game releases then i'm sure we'll see a different story altogether..

 

[jandar]

I laugh at anyone who thinks that the Wii is suddenly going to stop being worth playing.

Nintendo PROVED it knows what they are doing with the DS. How many of the same gamers/types of gamers/"knowledgeable people" said that the PSP was really going to hurt Nintendo as the DS was gimmicky and relied on subpar graphics?


Get over it people, you are just a gamer, a low level source of sales income for the three companies. You are not the ENTIRE market, you are but a subset of it.

 

[Tagrineth]

archangel, the severe fallacy in your argument is that you're making the rather dire assumption that "by the time the novelty wears off", there still will be absolutely NO games at all with any depth. (or, conversely, that there's some kind of novelty involved that's creating a bias, regardless of game quality)


Also, I found this funny.

Now all I can think of for the Wii is, Mario Galaxy. That's pretty much it. Oh, and I know there'll be a new Smash Brothers game. But I dont even think that counts since there are no screenshots yet.

Yeah, no screenshots... just like 3-4 videos. =) But no screenshots!

 

[Capeta]

I laugh at anyone who thinks that the Wii is suddenly going to stop being worth playing.

Nintendo PROVED it knows what they are doing with the DS. How many of the same gamers/types of gamers/"knowledgeable people" said that the PSP was really going to hurt Nintendo as the DS was gimmicky and relied on subpar graphics?


Get over it people, you are just a gamer, a low level source of sales income for the three companies. You are not the ENTIRE market, you are but a subset of it.

Actually the DS was a risk that Nintendo took. They even admitted that they didn't know if it would take off or flop...NOBODY knew...except for maybe Mrs. Cleo.

 

[dobwal]

Your arguement is flawed because of two reasons..:-

A) Wii is selling well because of the novelty of it's "newness" to market, Zelda, the controller and an affordable pricing strategy and not because of any form of abundance of quality software.. I'm sure you'll struggle to find a Wii owner to date that has purchased more than 5 titles for the console since it's launch..

What do you expect for a console less than 5 months old? Do you expect the Wii to continue on with a lack of software? We are talking Nintendo here, who rivals EA in terms worldwide software sales and out runs everyone in terms of quality software titles.

B) PS3 IS selling well (albeit not AS well as Wii but astoundingly well for a £400+ games console) because of the potential of the hardware, a promise of a great online services, a promise of great software on its way and blu-ray..

The PS3 isn't selling well in japan where its cheaper than £400 and is currently running in third in the US (<£400 ) where it is more competitive. How the PS3 is selling at any particular price point is irrelevant as the software is the primary profit generator and the whole point is to put as many consoles into the market as possible especially when you're subsidizing the cost of the console.

So by that logic i'm sure you can see that it's really the PS3 which doesn't have a problem due to lack of quality software.. (& it probably never will as AAA titles are gauranteed to come in droves..)

So by your logic the console thats outselling every other console by a ton is vunerable to lack of software but the console currently in 3rd with the same software issue isn't vunerable because of some "promises" and your lack of appreciation for a "novelty" feature.

Sure the Wii doesn't have a problem (sales-wise) now.. but in 8 months time if we don't get many more sw announcements or quality game releases then i'm sure we'll see a different story altogether..

I don't recall worthwhile announcements of Nintendogs and Brain Age but it helped the DS moves millions of units. Its not like Nintendo titles or third party titles for Nintendo hardware generate a lot buzz in these forums anyway (except may RE4). Nintendo has never had a problem with attach rates which would indicative of lackluster software offerings. So, why do you expect that to be the downfall of the Wii?

 

[Ben-Nice]

I laugh at anyone who thinks that the Wii is suddenly going to stop being worth playing.

Nintendo PROVED it knows what they are doing with the DS. How many of the same gamers/types of gamers/"knowledgeable people" said that the PSP was really going to hurt Nintendo as the DS was gimmicky and relied on subpar graphics?

A handheld is not the same as a console. Your a bit premature thinking the DS success will correlate to Wii doing the same thing.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

True. But why would handheld gamers be more willing to use a other method of controlls than a console gamer? Though there is the big differance in gfx.

 

[Bobbler]

The problem, as I see it, with Wii's current releases and release list for the coming 4-5 months are developers/publishers seem to think that putting shovelware will get sales (and sadly, it might be the case). I've no doubt Wii is able to produce beautiful graphics and games with depth and compelling stories (as PS2 was completely capable, and still is, of doing that), but currently, outside of Zelda, the unique games are akin to what you'd find on popcap or any other flash game site, imo.

I think Nintendo really needs to work with developers and publishers to show them Wii is worth spending effort on and releasing good titles, rather than shovelware flash games or ports of PS2 games. This problem has nothing to do with the platform itself -- the hardware, the controls, etc. -- it's all about developers and publishers (and Nintendo a bit too, for not pushing harder for companies to take them seriously as not just a non-game/"kiddy" system, if nothing else).

Nintendo is able to make good games, no doubt, but they are also perpetuating the simple game stigma as well (with wii sports, wii play and whatever other stuff they come up with)... Although, at least Nintendo is/will release good stuff as well (Smash brothers needs to hurry up!).

It's kind of sad when downloadable games from XBLA and PSN have as much depth and cost a fraction of the price than a lot of the games on Wii -- flOw, Alien Hominid, Tekken 5: DR, Castle Crashers, Geo Wars (and that similar one on PSN), etc. are all a fraction of the price yet offer better graphics and arguably as much depth as a lot of the crap on Wii.

Don't get me wrong, there is shit on every systems, but you've got a disproportionate amount of shovelware coming and already on Wii. This is something completely fixable over time, but looking at the titles coming in the next few months, I don't see anything actually worthy on Wii -- this isn't the case when I look at PS3/360's lists (hell, even PS2 has GoW2!). That's just my opinion, but I don't think I'm alone here, judging by forums all around.

I just want my Smash Brothers to hurry up =/

 

[Capeta]

There's only 2 games on that list that I'm looking forward to and are guaranteed to be AAA. There are a couple others that sound interesting but no guarantee they will be good.

 

[Shark Sandwich]

This problem has nothing to do with the platform itself -- the hardware, the controls, etc. -- it's all about developers and publishers (and Nintendo a bit too, for not pushing harder for companies to take them seriously as not just a non-game/"kiddy" system, if nothing else).

I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with this part. The Wii hardware is ideally suited for "Flash" style minigames that are fun but shallow. This is because of both the controller and the system's capabilities.

1. Is it possible to create an "epic" style game that's dozens of hours long and not get tired of the controls? Sure, there's Zelda, but IMO a conventional controller would be just fine for such a game. The Wii controls are fun precisely because they are fresh and interesting. Is it still exciting, several hours later, to shake the Wiimote around and watch Link do his canned 4-hit sword attack over and over? I've found that, after the novelty wears off, the controls don't add much to the experience.

2. More importantly, why should developers create these "epic" games for the Wii, when they can instead create them for 360/PS3 and take advantage of the FAR superior hardware for better graphics/more demanding scenarios (e.g. dozens/hundreds of characters on screen)? Immersive, large-scale games such as Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Gears of War, Ninja Gaiden, etc. arguably have a lot more to gain from more powerful hardware than from Wiimote style input.

3. This may just be speculation, but I am definitely not convinced that the Wiimote is accurate enough to capture the subtleties and nuances required for deep gameplay. It's just too jittery and inaccurate. There is also a small but noticeable lag between your actions and when the game registers them in every game I've played, including the Wii menu itself. The Wiimote works fine for capturing large, exaggerated movements, but games based on such movements are inherently limited in their depth. How much depth can some style of gameplay have if the Wiimote lacks the "resolution" to distinguish, in real time, subtle changes in form and motion? In other words, how much mastery can a gamer hope to attain if the Wii hardware is incapable of decoding much more than basic movements?

I am a happy Wii owner, but I really think people are expecting the wrong thing from the Wii. Wii is the perfect party system, period. It's a system that anybody can pick up and play, girls are not intimidated by it, and it's hilarious to see a bunch of your friends flailing around like idiots playing these games. That alone is well worth it for me. Hell, I brought my Wii to a party last week. We turned it on at 4 PM and it STAYED on until 5:15 AM. Any system that can provide that kind of entertainment is a winner. However, I don't expect it to offer much more than gimmicky, fun-but-shallow, pick-up-and-play style games, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I dont see why you cant have epic games for wii and why devs wouldnt make epic games for wii. Just because wii is only 2 - 3 times faster than GC and x360 and ps3 are something like 30 times faster doesnt mean its impossible to make something epic on wii. Or because of the controller the wii suddenly cant be anything else than a party console. Look at zelda, a cube game but still more epic than just about anything on the x360. I guess it will be DS all over again in terms of games. Lots of junk in the beginning and once the userbase starts getting big the ''real'' games come out. Besides, there already are some big, not nintendo games, in development so its not that we wont see them.

But I agree, the wii is just a easy way to make a quick buck atm. And I do think nintendo should do something about that. But I can see why they wont do that. They've been really lacking 3rd party support for the last 2 generations wich defenitly hurt the console sales so I think they want to do as much as possible to keep devs happy even if it means allowing lots of crap for the time being and hope they will make big games once nintendo and other 3rd party devs are releasing their big games so they cant get away with cheap junk anymore.

3. This may just be speculation, but I am definitely not convinced that the Wiimote is accurate enough to capture the subtleties and nuances required for deep gameplay.

I've played zelda, red steel and exite truck and in all 3 I didnt notice any lagg at all. It might be there, but if it is its not going to bother anyone and im a bitch when it comes to controlls.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Fortunately, hardcore gamers aren't the only gamers out there.

Judging by some of the Wii's reviews, being a "hardcore gamer" on Wii is more about being good at video games and being able to do tricky stuff than it is about knowing what parallax mapping is. I submit SSX Blur as a case example. There are two kinds of reviews: "The controls are broken and Ubers are impossible. Nobody can play this game! 4/10!!!" and "You crying babies need to learn how to play video games. 8/10!!!!" Once you get rid of the crutches of auto-aiming and button-mashing, games can actually become a lot more difficult on Wii, depending on where the dev takes them.

The first two Playstations proved that if you move enough hardware, the software will follow. If Wii keeps selling at this rate, it would be foolish for any publisher to ignore it. This is even more true as development on 360/PS3 is so expensive that you almost have to sell a million units just to break even. I wouldn't be surprised to see more publishers put most of their attention on Wii/DS while reserving the blockbusters for 360/PS3, spaced out far enough to make money.

 

[ninelven]

The problem with PS3 is that once the novelty of its graphics wears off

Since when are PS3 "graphics" novel?

 

[Turok]

Meh, ill buy it once it proves not to be a different way to play the same games.