1080p output = standard checkbox feature by 2011 or earlier?

[AlNom]

That's anecdotal evidence at best. Even so the quality dfference is bound to be marginal compared to source material that is high-res from the outset.

I never said it was better for a fact. And I never said that it was a replacement for HD source material either; you so neatly cut out that part when you quoted me. I was saying that proper deinterlacing and upscalers in those particular DVD players should provide a better IQ with respect to letting some random TV do the scaling.

 

[Crossbar]

Found this report over at digitimes:

While LCD panel makers are pushing full HD TV panels (1920×1080 resolution), customers are increasingly willing to spend more money on full HD TVs. According to the latest survey data from Displaybank, consumers prefer 46-inch full HD LCD TVs rather than 50-inch HD PDP TVs.

In the survey, 65.8% of 673 website visitors said they would prefer a 46-inch full HD LCD TV over a 50-inch HD PDP TV if given a choice, the research firm noted. Even when pricing was introduced, 47.8% of the respondents still preferred the 46-inch full HD LCD TV despite a price difference of US$3,431 for the 46-inch full HD LCD TV and US$2,681 for the 50-inch HD PDP TV.

In line with such market preferences, LCD panel makers are accelerating their development of full HD TV panels. LG.Philips LCD said it expects full HD TV panels to account for more than half of its large TV panel output next year, up from around 40% this year, according to Eddie Yeo, executive vice president of LG.Philips LCD TV business unit, as cited in an August Reuters report.

AU Optronics (AUO) stated it also expects to increase the proportion of its full HD 40-inch class TV panel shipment in the third quarter by 10-15% sequentially, while Chi Mei Optoelectronics (CMO) plans to increase its full HD TV shipments gradually. According to sources, the monthly shipments of CMO's 42-inch full HD TV panels are around 150,000 units at present.

Seems like the full HD screens are well received by the consumers, it will be really interesting what kind of market share 1080p screens will have by 2010 - 2012.

Perhaps the adoption rate will be even faster than what was predicted in the original post of this thread.

 

[one]

1080p has been a checkbox feature of decent LCD TVs for a while, a new one is 120hz panels that reduces ghosting. 2008 Olympic Games will contribute to more purchase of new TVs.

 

[Xpuntar]

Hell yeah! I am still waiting for full HD '26 LCD TV to replace my CRT monitor.

The only downside is I will need to buy a new graphics card as 7600GT is just to slow for 1920x1080 gaming.

 

[Gubbi]

Seems like the full HD screens are well received by the consumers, it will be really interesting what kind of market share 1080p screens will have by 2010 - 2012.

Consumers are sheep. It's easier to market a one-dimensional metric to consumers. And with increasing panel sizes it is relatively easy (cheap) to bump resolution compared to other metrics like contrast, colour reproduction and response time, - all of which are as, or more, important for a movie/game experience.

Cheers

 

[Crossbar]

Consumers are sheep. It's easier to market a one-dimensional metric to consumers.

Indeed, that is why I still haven´t bought a 1080p TV, I actually tested a cheap one at home but it looked like crap next to my current TV.

I prefer a good HD ready TV instead of a mediocre Full HD TV. Hell, I even prefer a good Std TV instead of a mediocre HD ready TV.

@xPuntar, why don´t you buy a 26" 1080p display and a TV-card to your PC?

 

[Crossbar]

We all know this, but this show where the size of new TV screens is heading.

Although the 32-inch segment is the mainstream size for LCD TVs currently, Corning thinks that 65-inch full HD LCD TVs are well suited for the average living room in North America.

According to Corning, the best viewing distance for a 40-inch full HD TV is 4.5 feet. Generally speaking, living rooms in North America have a dimension of eight by nine feet, which would be best suited for a 65-inch LCD TV, noted the company. Corning also pointed out that it is hard to distinguish disparities in the resolution of full HD and HD over a viewing distance of 6.5 feet although there is a great demand for full HD LCD TVs.

Increasing the size will soon be the only way to keep up the high price point of new models of LCD screens.

 

[infinity4]

I personally prefer small screens. Keeps pixel very small hence sharpest image. Of course not small enough for me to find it hard to distinguish between objects.

 

[Mintmaster]

Seems like the full HD screens are well received by the consumers, it will be really interesting what kind of market share 1080p screens will have by 2010 - 2012.

And these consumers are the same ones not bothering with HD-DVD or BluRay after they buy these 1080p TVs. This has nothing to do with perception and everything to do with marketing.

I don't mind 1080p, obviously, but I wish devs (and MS's TRC) would focus more on AA and AF. For a given amount of additional rendering time, both of those increase detail and effective resolution far more than boosting the number of pixels.

 

[RobertR1]

I love the choice wording like "select"

No one is selecting shit. By 2011, people will walk into a store and see nothing but 1080p TV's within their preset budget and bring one home. Hard to "select" when those are your options.

Might as well say "people will select a cable provider to use Cable modems for internet usage."

I certainly hope this generation doesn't feel the need to cut back on the bells and whistles just so they can be at 1080p. 720p scaled is fine. All Jimmy needs is to be able to select "1080p" in setup and see it displayed on his TV. What that 1080p truly is or how it got there, he's not concerned with.

Some of you guys put too much faith in people!

 

[wco81]

And these consumers are the same ones not bothering with HD-DVD or BluRay after they buy these 1080p TVs. This has nothing to do with perception and everything to do with marketing.

I don't mind 1080p, obviously, but I wish devs (and MS's TRC) would focus more on AA and AF. For a given amount of additional rendering time, both of those increase detail and effective resolution far more than boosting the number of pixels.

They are going to increase marketing of HDM players along with HDTV purchases. Toshiba is said to be pushing for sales of their HD-DVD players along with their HDTVs.

Stores market "extras" when Americans buy a big-screen HDTV, such as overpriced HDMI cables and expensive wall mounts (including about $300-500 or more for installation of wall mounts).

As players come down in price, stores will be touting the benefits of HDM players to complement these big shiny displays.


About a year ago, there was skepticism expressed about people going for 1080p, how it would be a niche within a niche. But it seems the expression "full HD" has caught on. The advertising here does highlight 1080p vs. 720p.

Yes it's a too-easy metric and other aspects of performance are being overlooked. But that's always been the case for tech. products. You have a certain segment who do pay attention to these things, enthusiasts like those at AVS Forum. But the mass market has always gone for deals. There are brands which have come from nowhere, like Vizio and Olevia which are moving tons of LCDs at much lower prices. And that's often enough for the mass market.

 

[PARANOiA]

Actually, I'll buck the trend here... it's looking more and more like this gen was a little too soon to push for even 720p for the highest-quality titles.

When I consider stuff like Halo 3 couldn't support full 720p with its complex lighting model, I think that just maybe targeting lower resolutions with better assets and effects would have been the better way to go. Similarly, several high-profile PS3 titles sound like they're slightly less than 720p too (R+C, Resistance chopping off 16px vertically?)

Now, the jump to 1080p is huge from 720p. When you weigh in the cost of AA that those sort of resolutions, it'll be a bug jump. Hell, the "Halo 2.5" stuff mentioned here - even with the much nicer textures and stunning lighting model - makes me think next gen they'll be saying "Resistance 2.5" or "Gears 2.5".

I can already here the complaints from next-gen of "target 720p w/ AA rather than a jaggy 1080p".

So - will 1080p be standard next gen? Probably, but I'd bet that the increased resolution won't necessarily benefit in other areas, like textures and lighting.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Actually, I'll buck the trend here... it's looking more and more like this gen was a little too soon to push for even 720p for the highest-quality titles.

When I consider stuff like Halo 3 couldn't support full 720p with its complex lighting model, I think that just maybe targeting lower resolutions with better assets and effects would have been the better way to go.

I think H3 was anomalous in that respect. Other titles are achieving impressive things with AA at 720p, and there's still room for improvement in hardware usage. I don't think 720p is a bad target - if we can't manage more than 17% above 1024x768 which has been common as muck on PC for generations, than the consoles really are behind the curve! 1080p does seem a marketing point though. I'll have to wait until I get to see some 1080p goodness versus 720p goodness though before I can form a personal opinion. Plus 1080p as an option for some titles, like 2D downloads, is a nice option that I wouldn't begrudge.

 

[Xpuntar]

Indeed, that is why I still haven´t bought a 1080p TV, I actually tested a cheap one at home but it looked like crap next to my current TV.

I prefer a good HD ready TV instead of a mediocre Full HD TV. Hell, I even prefer a good Std TV instead of a mediocre HD ready TV.

@xPuntar, why don´t you buy a 26" 1080p display and a TV-card to your PC?

Well, I already have analog TV-card in my PC but quality of a picture on some channels (with tv-cable provider) is crapastic and I have only 17' CRT. Well even on 20 year old TV picture is far better than through tv-card (Terratec Cinergy 600) on my monitor (in terms of noise and vertical strips).

Currently I have no intention to change tv provider. If I want to have digital TV (with HD content) I would also need at least 3 com. unit (for each TV). With cable I can attach as many TVs as I want.

Another reason is that LCD TV are far better in terms of picture quality against monitors in all aspects. And primary reason is that all notable LCD TV have so many Video outputs (RGB [Scart & monitor], DVI, component, S-VHS, HDMI ) that put even larger (24') monitors into shame. LCD TV also have quite good scaler chip while monitor don't have it.

It's very nice to have option to use the display also for "next-gen" console (PS3&X360) with regular HDMI cable. I already see how I can play a tactical or strategy game and also watch a soccer match (Champion League) in "PiP window". (Without hassle to disrupt game speed with disk swapping or due to CPU usage).

 

[Crossbar]

US market: 40-inch and larger LCD TV (Full HD) sales boom in 3Q

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20071113PR204.html

After several quarters of modest growth, 1080p LCD TV segment sales lit the category on fire in the US market in the third quarter 2007, and overall LCD TV unit sales in the 40-inch and above segments grew 113% from the previous quarter, according to Quixel Research.

Tamaryn Pratt, Quixel Research's principal, stated that the LCD TV category has already outsold PDP at 42-inch and is now upping the stakes with 1080p resolution models. The wide availability of 46-inch and 47-inch 1080p LCD TV models will soon put pressure on 50-inch PDP where 1080p is not yet widely available, Pratt added.

Revenues for the 40-inch to smaller than 43-inch 1080p LCD TV segment grew 188% sequentially and 362% on year to reach US$1.7 billion in the third quarter. The 40-inch to smaller than 43-inch 1080p LCD TV segment represented 10% of the total category's revenues or up 3% from the previous quarter.

...

The total value of the Advanced TV market in the USA was worth almost US$7.5 billion in revenues in the third quarter and the LCD TV segment represented almost 70% of that market. Quixel Research's projections for the US LCD TV market show the category tripling in volume by 2010.

Pretty high numbers, I expect that by next christmas Full HD 40" screens should be pretty main stream.

It will be interesting if the number of games with 1080p output will increase significantly. I wonder if the Sony exclusives will push 1080p more than others as Sony probably want people to buy their high-end TV sets.

I would love to play Motorstorm 2 with split screen in 1080p on the 46"+ Full HD TV I will have by then.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Personal anecdotal evidence...I'm looking to purchase a 32" 1080p LCD in the next month, to compliment an XBox 360. It's going to be in a "play room" that we have (basically a small bedroom), where the viewing distance for playing games (or watching DVDs for that matter) will only be about 3 feet.

Not many options right now...there's really only one panel (a Sharp one) with two variants, though it's supposedly a nice set.

 

[Rangers]

Consumers are sheep. It's easier to market a one-dimensional metric to consumers. And with increasing panel sizes it is relatively easy (cheap) to bump resolution compared to other metrics like contrast, colour reproduction and response time, - all of which are as, or more, important for a movie/game experience.

Cheers

I agree. I have a casual friend searching for a inexpensive HDTV, and he seems obsessed with 1080P, while he knows next to nothing about HD in general... Even though I consider it fairly useless, as most content (games and TV broadcasts) are in 720P and will be for the forseeable future. In fact, personally I prefer a 720P, as the content will look better in it's native res, and again most content is in 720P..

It's the easiness to express it with a bigger number..so joe six pack not so technically bright consumer can easily understand it.

 

[tuna]

Are there any TVs manufactured right now that are in native 720p resolution. Most seem to be in some weird 768X1366 or something.....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Very few if any. However, it all seems pretty moot. Many games aren't even rendered at 720p, so there's scaling going on all over the shop. All that really matters is what things look like on screen. On paper, 1:1 pixel mapping sounds like an important thing, but if 768p panels produce fantastic looking results, does it matter?

It's a shame there aren't many places that'll showcase consoles on panels. It's not like people can pop into town and see the different HDTV options playing different consoles for comparison. I suppose because of that people are reliant on paper specs to guess performance.

 

[kyleb]

Personal anecdotal evidence...I'm looking to purchase a 32" 1080p LCD in the next month, to compliment an XBox 360. It's going to be in a "play room" that we have (basically a small bedroom), where the viewing distance for playing games (or watching DVDs for that matter) will only be about 3 feet.

Not many options right now...there's really only one panel (a Sharp one) with two variants, though it's supposedly a nice set.

That's because hardly anyone sits closer than about 6' to their TV, and on a 32" display you'd need better than 20/20 vision to resolve anything more than 720p anyway.

I agree. I have a casual friend searching for a inexpensive HDTV, and he seems obsessed with 1080P, while he knows next to nothing about HD in general... Even though I consider it fairly useless, as most content (games and TV broadcasts) are in 720P and will be for the forseeable future. In fact, personally I prefer a 720P, as the content will look better in it's native res, and again most content is in 720P..

Actually most broadcasts are 1080i and of couse HD movie formats use 1080p, leaving 720p is in the minority. Also, good upscaling will make 720p on look better on a 1080p display, or even a 768p one compared to a 720p TV, even if it is one of the few 720p TVs around that actually support 1:1 pixel mapping rather than scaling the image up a bit to overscan it as most TVs tend to do. That is of course only as long as you are sitting close enough to a large enough display to see the difference.