1 Million Xbox 360s to be Banned

[eastmen]

MS has sold at least 30 million 360s so far right? If MS had to absorb another $50 per console that would be $1.5b additional loss. MS can only save money on games that they publish. You think that for all the games they published so far, that the case and manuals + shipping is anywhere near $1.5b?

But we aren't talking about the 360. We are talking about a new xbox coming out. XBOX NEXT and with it they can build in the additional retail loss. Also yes I think that shpiping , packaging and other costs that would be removed would more than equal 1.5B over the hundreds of millions of software units they've moved at retail locations. Lets just say that those costs amount to $5 (very low here) they would only need to sell 300m units of software which they have easily done over the course of the 360s life. If the costs of actually pressing discs , selling them , buying back unsold inventory and what not approaches $15 as i've read in the past then of coruse thats even less at 100m copies. But thats assuming they have to take a loss. Whats to stop them from making a $350 cost to them console and selling it at $400 thus gamestop taking a $50 cut and they break even ?

You have to download the DLC, the game comes with a redemption code. But fact of the matter is it doesnt matter if the DLC was on the disk or not, you still had to buy the game retail. Fallout 3 GOTY has all the DLC on disk, so your assertion that gamestop makes nothing off DLC and never will is false.

Yey you miss the point. They were directly attacking the used market and gamestop. Because now if you wanted those rock band songs or the gears 2 maps or the multiplayer on certian sports games you had to buy new or you had to the content online thus making back someo f the lost money from a used sale.

And PSP go has been a flop so far and almost universally criticized.

The psp was a flop so I don't see how the psp go would have done better . however its out there and its dlc only.

No I don't have any evidence, and of course I feel it makes more sense duh. I didnt just randomly think that PS4 is going to be a DD only console. Considering the timeframe, the infrastructure and consumer acceptance, it makes more sense than not that PS4 will have some BD variant. Even gamestop doesnt think that PS4 and the next xbox will be DD only, and I'm sure they have a lot more detailed info than either you or I.

Oh I don't know we will see. Mabye next gen will be optical still. However The gen after that surely wont as we are looking at 2020. But I bet at the very least more and more content is offered only as dd and many users will be able to opt into DD only on next gen consoles.

The benfits out weigh the negatives

As for Sony testing the waters... what you suggest exists today, its called a PS3.

Yes I've mentioned it many times you just continue to gloss over it .

MS took the first steps with the arcade service and the nxbox live originals. Sony had their first steps with psn and some ps3 games and then they put out the psp go. Which I'm willing ot bet is to get people ready for a DD only psp 2

 

[-tkf-]

3D on Amiga was crippled versus PC due to it's graphics hardware fucssing on bitplane methods. 3D titles on Amiga a la Doom thrashed the copper, producing quarter resolution and lower pixels to get playable speeds. The demo scene showed some outrageous 3D rendering, but nothing was attainable to that quality in game. The real problem was the Amiga hardware didn't evolve, while PC prices plummeted through to competition, meaning considerably more processing power. PCs still couldn't produce smooth 2D graphics like the Amiga's 60hz, framesync'd output years later, but as things moved to 3D that didn't matter, especially when the CPUs were pushing 120MHz versus Amiga's 14Mhz. None of which is related to the topic!

Certainly piracy was a big negative, but software was being produced on the Amiga right up past its Best Before date (kinda like how the Spectrum was still getting contemporary games like Lemmings, long past its natural end). The platform wasn't abandoned yb consumers because there wasn't any software for it as a result of publishers avoiding the piracy. Piracy wasn't elliminated on PC after all, and publishers still faced the same problems! The Amiga was abandoned because the platform didn't progress with technology and there were new, more capable and cost effective machines to turn to, once Window's became a real OS.

I could have written the same, just less readable and understandable, and with 400% more spelling mistakes etc. Thanks, excellent job

I followed the Amiga Scene for a long time, and i never ever saw anything that actually could compete with Doom quality graphics, even "special" demos that used more powerfull CPU´s had trouble, and i was on a A4000 with a 68030. The Amiga did a dreamcast before that term was known

Personally i more or less shifted platform from the Amiga to the PC with 3 things happening, QUAKE, Windows 95 and Pentium Pro. Until then i had my 386->486 PC next to my Amiga that never was turned off.

 

[deathindustrial]

And PSP go has been a flop so far and almost universally criticized.

Sony screwed up the software implementation horribly (Ars Technica's review is pretty damning on that front) and also didn't bother to upgrade the hardware. So arguably it is their poor implementation that flopped and not the concept of a DD console at this point in time. And the iPhone certainly has not been a flop.

Cheers

 

[fearsomepirate]

Back on topic, my stance is pretty simple:

The Xbox belongs to you. If MS bricked it, you'd have a right to complain. But the Xbox Live servers belong to MS. They, not you, have the right to determine under what conditions you are allowed to connect to them.

 

[upnorthsox]

Back on topic, my stance is pretty simple:

The Xbox belongs to you. If MS bricked it, you'd have a right to complain. But the Xbox Live servers belong to MS. They, not you, have the right to determine under what conditions you are allowed to connect to them.

That seems like a fair stance. I guess my only question then is, does MS have the right to report your illegal activity back to the developer from whom you have pirated their software? IMO they do (as part of the condition of connecting to XBL) and it then should be up to the developer to come after you for theft.

 

[Arwin]

Sony screwed up the software implementation horribly (Ars Technica's review is pretty damning on that front) and also didn't bother to upgrade the hardware. So arguably it is their poor implementation that flopped and not the concept of a DD console at this point in time. And the iPhone certainly has not been a flop.

Cheers

I would have bought a PSP Go! at a lower price. I already have two. I'd like to have one eventually, but with the current price and the peripherals not being compatible either, it's too expensive for me.

Digital distribution is otherwise a huge benefit for me, having two psps (and some time in the future probably also two PS3s) now buying stuff online means I can install it on both machines and play coop with my wife or something like that.

 

[fearsomepirate]

That seems like a fair stance. I guess my only question then is, does MS have the right to report your illegal activity back to the developer from whom you have pirated their software? IMO they do (as part of the condition of connecting to XBL) and it then should be up to the developer to come after you for theft.

I don't know if they have the ability to tell which software is pirated...but the RIAA's been using Internet data on pirates for years. If you don't want MS knowing what's on your Xbox, don't connect to their network.

 

[eastmen]

I would have bought a PSP Go! at a lower price. I already have two. I'd like to have one eventually, but with the current price and the peripherals not being compatible either, it's too expensive for me.

Digital distribution is otherwise a huge benefit for me, having two psps (and some time in the future probably also two PS3s) now buying stuff online means I can install it on both machines and play coop with my wife or something like that.

I wouldn't have. I own a psp already and with the modded software it does everything I want (and yes all the games on my memory stick i have the umds for ... all 4 games)

Now if a psp 2 with enhanced graphics , 3g connection and two analog sticks came out then I would easily have bought it at $250.

But why am i going to rebuy a psp ?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't know if they have the ability to tell which software is pirated...but the RIAA's been using Internet data on pirates for years. If you don't want MS knowing what's on your Xbox, don't connect to their network.

Duplicated discs aren't quite the same as discs pressed for retail. Thus a hacked firmware the ability to "stealth" not only the hacked drive but the duplicated disc so that MS can't detect them.

Otherwise there would be no need for hacked drive firmware in the first place.

Detection is rather easy for MS when they first put out a new wave. Then the hackers attempt to determine how MS is detecting and new firmware is released.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

This is why the future is DD of games. That way there is no way to copy games without the software and home office knowing.

If a game has cod 18 the xbox lvie store will know if it was purchased by the owner of the console and if its not they will simply kill the file. If it happens multiple times they kill the modded system.

You get rid of used games also at that point

 

[grandmaster]

I would like to see DD mirrored day and date with the release of retail copies next gen. It is the obvious next stop.

But you've got to stop thinking of the optical disc as a point of attack. PS3 has been piracy-free for three years now and I've said it many times, but I'll say it again - the only reason 360 has piracy at all is because the drive firmware was not encrypted. It's nothing to do with the actual discs themselves.

PS3 system updates include the BD drive firmware, so even if it is compromised and flashed, it'll be nullified when you next update. Not updating freezes you out of PSN and eventually freezes you out of new games that require the new firmware. It is a far more elegant approach. But as it is, PS3 game dumps are encrypted and useless (even if there was a hack), nobody has compromised either the drive nor the disc and nobody has got unsigned code running on a retail unit.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

IF BR disc and drive prices are still high then that might be another reason why the warez community doesn't care... Although it looks like the tech is cheap enough by now to, you know, make it more economic then buying the game itself.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I would like to see DD mirrored day and date with the release of retail copies next gen. It is the obvious next stop.

But you've got to stop thinking of the optical disc as a point of attack. PS3 has been piracy-free for three years now and I've said it many times, but I'll say it again - the only reason 360 has piracy at all is because the drive firmware was not encrypted. It's nothing to do with the actual discs themselves.

PS3 system updates include the BD drive firmware, so even if it is compromised and flashed, it'll be nullified when you next update. Not updating freezes you out of PSN and eventually freezes you out of new games that require the new firmware. It is a far more elegant approach. But as it is, PS3 game dumps are encrypted and useless (even if there was a hack), nobody has compromised either the drive nor the disc and nobody has got unsigned code running on a retail unit.

Again ill add to this and say that the only form of piracy so far on PS3 has been through DD where you were able to set up a fake PSN server and install DD games that had not been paid for and sitting on this fake local server. DD is not unhackable by default clever protection schemes still need to be in place, and these same schemes can also be used for optical media.

 

[obonicus]

Joker just mentioned buying a bunch of no-brand BR discs for $1.50. The drive might be expensive, but still we'd see burned copies being sold in Asia or Brazil.

 

[eastmen]

weren't there ways early on to run games on the hardrive ? Also even now there are ways to get psn games for free.

 

[eastmen]

Joker just mentioned buying a bunch of no-brand BR discs for $1.50. The drive might be expensive, but still we'd see burned copies being sold in Asia or Brazil.

The real factor is burn time . a 2x disc will take what half an hour to burn ?

8x discs are expensive still $8 and above
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100071 1087422108 1087717727&name=6X

4x seem to be as low as $4
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100071 1087422108 1087708124&name=4X


Seems very expensive still as SL dvds can be had for $10 per 25 pack and $17ish for 25 packs of DL DVDs .

So its 40c/68c/$4/$26 seems a no brainer when what 90-95% of the ps3 library is also avalible on the 360.

Your looking at burning time 4m/8m/23m/45m ? seems like a win here also.


Whats even more here is that you can get 22x drives for $20 bucks in the states. Bluray burners at 4x cost about $150. So for the price of 1 bluray burner you can get at least 7 dvd burners. If you wanted to you can set up a nice copying operation and sell the discs. I'm not sure it be great in the States but I'm sure in china and other countrys the costs remain the same even if they go up for dvd drives they will go up just the same for bluray burners and the media costs ratio would stay the same. A chinese group could be pumping out 7 dvds every 8 minutes and you can do 2.8 runs of dvds per single layer bluray. Giving you roughly 20 dvds in the time it takes ot make 1 bluray rip with roughly the same start up costs and cheaper media.


I think for bluray piracy to take off media and burners need to drop drasticly in price still or you have to have both next gen sony and ms systems using it.

 

[obonicus]

weren't there ways early on to run games on the hardrive ? Also even now there are ways to get psn games for free.

There was some exploit that involved cloning an HDD and running backups. I think a firmware update killed it, though. And are you referring to game sharing? That's essentially by design.

The real factor is burn time . a 2x disc will take what half an hour to burn ?

Don't think about some guy downloading an iso off a torrent. The real factor is if organized crime can make money off pirated games. Throwing around facts about the cost of media or the time to record is mostly immaterial. In some markets original PS3 games are over 150USD. I personally know several people would LEAP at being able to pay just $20-$30 for a pirated PS3 game. There's a market there, it's silly to assume there's no interest in pirating the PS3.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Im sure the the PS3 not being hacked has more to do with good security than cost of disk replication.

 

[grandmaster]

Exactly. There's also the small fact that PS3 TEST units can run <8.5GB games (which is most of them) from a dual/single layer DVD. There's no reason to suggest that a suitably hacked PS3 couldn't do the same, but the bottom line is that we're not likely to find out for a long, long time because PS3 remains hack-free owing to Sony's security.

As it is, in the UK at least, a blank BD-R is £2, so the argument about media costs is completely irrelevant.

 

[ShadowRunner]

What was the cost of replicating UMDs also? Didnt hold back the PSP from being one of the most widely hacked systems of all time