game with best graphic so far!

[Shifty Geezer]

Again, as I understand the Siggraph video, there's no secondary illumination at all, just a very large number of lights. The guy does mention adding a skylight too, but there is nothing that offline CG would define as GI or even as a subset of it.

None of the technologies in the presentation do any secondary illumination, by the way. The first method is a fast approximation of area lights and area shadows; the second, which is in the slides, is a very low frequency fake for ambient occlusion, and the third is a lighting approach that allows for an arbitrary number of lights with a fixed calculation overhead.

You might be right. I've only had a quick view of the .pdf and accompanying movie. Too busy at the moment to give them a good investigation, but I certainly will do. the idea of secondary illumination comes from a comment from Evans that you get this 'for free'. It's something of an artefact I believe, but it's fairly convincing. Secondary illumination doesn't have to be accurate to look believable.

Really, LBP's technology could do with a thread to itself (or the existing LBP thread) to investigate what exactly they are and aren't doing. It's worth here is only to say 'LBP isn't easy and Crysis difficult' or 'Crysis is technologically advanced and LBP isn't'. The degrees fo 'technology advancement' various with title and that title's requirements. Evans is nice and up-front about compromises to fit the vision. Every choice is a sacrifice somewhere along the line. For the discussion of 'best graphics', technically it's hard (impossible?) to pin down without knowing exactly what the technical achievements are. The end argument is pretty much pure aesthestics. As would be indicated by three major nominations - LBP's miniworld realism, Crysis' large-world detail, and TB's artistic panache.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Funny, I personaly think that Crysis is far more realistic and LBP is more stylized, and in both cases it was the developers' definitive intention.

 

[Moonblade]

LBP, crysis, GOW, mass effect, GT HD and heavenly sword

 

[Bigus Dickus]

How do you know they are sacrificing a lot ?

/ half knowlege is definitly worse than ignorance.

Watch the presentation. Sheesh.

I'm not saying LBP looks bad or anything of the sort. It looks absolutely fantastic to me.

My point is this: Would say the Crysis engine produce as pretty a picture as LBP if you confined its camera, restricted draw distance, and made a 2.5D sidescroller based on the engine? I'd say it is highly, highly unlikely. Could the LBP engine produce a free roaming explorable 3D environment (like Crysis, UE3, or practically any other game) and keep the rendering effects that make LBP look so beautiful? It'd say it is highly, highly unlikely. If you're going to put LBP up on a pedestal for looking pretty, realize that in order to look that way it is incapable of doing many things that other games do routinely.

As was said previously it isn't a bad tradeoff, but it is a tradeoff.

 

[IGNDavid]

Amen to that!

 

[Lycan]

They sacrifice scene depth and complexity for the lighting, constraining themselves to a 2.5D world. They're using a view-aligned 3D texture whith a 128*64*16 resolution, where 16 is for the scene's depth to keep the lighting fast enough. They could not do this with an FPS or TPS game or a flight simulator and so on.
It's in the very video presentation that's been linked here.

Not that it's a wrong compromise or anything...

Strange that you evoke some constraints or sacrifices as the developers knew from day one what they wanted. It's not like if there was a shift of focus or anything...

Euuh ! Sorry, I kind of misunderstood the point ! However, I think the thread is about those games that impress, regardless of the "limitations" and choices embraced. Otherwise, it would be fair not to mention a lot of titles that are "reduced" in scope, though not to the extent of LBP I concede !

 

[pjbliverpool]

I just found this video and thought it relevant to this thread. Its a HD video of the Crysis level editor

http://download.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_crysis_gdc07_crytek_leveleditdemo_gt_h264.wmv

It completely insane! I really don't see how anyone can fail to be amazed by this. In particular, the day/night cycle scenes and the scenes in the mountains.

 

[TheChefO]

LBP voters:

How many of you consider tech demos of upcoming games a good measure of what to expect in game?

I ask this because many posters on this board view tech demos of upcoming games with a critical eye because of their limited/controlled environment which show their upcoming game in a positive light.

I'm all for controlled/limited cameras in games if it gives the game an edge visually. (see my opinion on nfs1 on this board) But this game is not only limited in this respect, but also in physical area represented. I'd compare LBP to the many tech demos Nvidia and ATI produce to show off their latest heaters. (See Mad Mod Mike or Toyshop for an example)

Looks good for what it is, but one must consider the graphics in context.

 

[NERO]

I just found this video and thought it relevant ...

I hadn't seen that vid before, thanks. Amazing

Crysis reigns supreme...if you are willing to pay ~1.5(Ps3, 360,wii), but it is supreme.

I didn't know that there was the qualifier "for what it is" in this thread. Yes LBP is only 2d sidescrolling adventure but if is fantastic for what it is. The video which "appears" to be being controlled (due to the player error of some of the characters) looks fantastic. I am skeptical of the gameplay but that is for another thread.
------------
p.s.The game that Joshua mentions looks wonderful in cutscenes only but is downgraded to Dragon Quest 8 during gameplay. But man did I love that game.

 

[Bohdy]

I don't agree. They are all characters in armors and heads have some wisible poly edges. Far from CGI quality.

I did say "approaching". It looks so far above in terms of animation and surface shaders than just about any game I've seen to date. You can tell Bioware's focus was like 80% on the character models.

Besides, it's not like I don't see polygon edges in production quality CGI. Advent Children had blocky edges everywhere if you pay attention.

 

[Crayon]

LBP voters:

How many of you consider tech demos of upcoming games a good measure of what to expect in game?

I didn't see a tech demo. Are you using the term "tech demo" interchangably with "game demo"? Or are you implying something specific by choosing "tech demo"?

 

[Fafalada]

LPB, unquestionably.

I don't think they will win Graphics of the year with it though.

Obviously the year is still young - but at the very least it should win a nomination for it.

Of course if you don't like cartoons then I can see how Trusty Bell is totally unimpressive.

I disagree - I love NPR stuff, but Trusty Bell is just taking what was done in hundreds of Japanese developed PS2 games before, and displaying it in higher res without texture aliasing issues (this goes above all for characters). Nothing about it is impressive in the way that we haven't seen many times before.
Of course, if you've never seen a game of this visual style before, it would probably look impressive.

 

[Fafalada]

They sacrifice scene depth and complexity for the lighting, constraining themselves to a 2.5D world.

Unless a game was designed around the graphics (and this one wasn't, from the little I know) - they aren't sacrificing anything for the lighting - they just adopted a rendering scheme that suits their game design.

 

[blakjedi]

Alan Wake is the most impressive game i've seen this generation, followed by army of two. After that Id say gears then LBP. LBP is visually extraordinary and by far the most impressive game of its genre ever (clockwork knight, nights, etc.)

 

[rounin]

Unless a game was designed around the graphics (and this one wasn't, from the little I know) - they aren't sacrificing anything for the lighting - they just adopted a rendering scheme that suits their game design.

Interesting viewpoint from a game dev and definitely shows a different in mindset and perspective from that of an artist. According to this article on the making of Media Molecule, their history with Sony, and the progression of Little Big Planet, the game was intended to be a simple wacky 2Dish platformer from the very beginning and the game was definitely not about the graphics (much like their previous game Rag Doll Kung Fu).

Here is a screen of the game when it was pitched to Sony :

In other words, it would be a big mistake to make the wrong causal conclusion: The currently good (and in the future very probably great) graphics and lighting of LBP are a result of their original 2.5D game vision/design, not the other way around. It is very different and wrong to say that they had to "sacrifice" the opportunity to have depth and complexity when in fact they were never aiming there to begin with.

 

[Tap In]

of games that are currently released....

GoW
Lost Planet
Motorstorm
GRAW2


(edit: oh and I've actually played each of these on an HDTV too, not just looked at screens/vids )

 

[_phil_]

Design drives the choices ,not the opposit.

 

[flick556]

I vote for LBP, I think it’s obvious their materials system is far ahead of anything out their. Their cloth, wood, and paper shaders are some of the most complex I ever seen. The paper one is especially good as it’s such a very subtle effect that it seems hard to simulate. The lighting is also very good; I think placing many lights in the scene at points of primary ray impact to represents secondary rays is an extremely accurate technique. None of these techniques would come close to working in a game with a 3d camera and more dynamic lighting conditions(The amount of data would grow exponentially). That does not make the end result any less impressive visually.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Ok, how about a different approach, on a purely technical basis, putting aesthetics aside, which game is achieving the most from a technical perspective?

Or put a different way, from a code/features point of view, taking artwork completely out of the equation, which current or upcoming game is most like the average game we expect to see in 5 years?

 

[_phil_]

Ok, how about a different approach, on a purely technical basis, putting aesthetics aside, which game is achieving the most from a technical perspective?

Or put a different way, from a code/features point of view, taking artwork completely out of the equation, which current or upcoming game is most like the average game we expect to see in 5 years?

Spore .