PS3: Word of Mouth & Hands-on (Rumors)

[McFly]

Anyone remember those growing fractal trees with wind demo Sony presented before the PS2 launch? Sounds a lot like a next gen implementation of the idea.

Fredi

 

[expletive]

Sounds like it, I think what he means by wind is that they probably make a rustle sound. Kinda like that e3 leaves demo. But who knows, he doesnt really go into detail.

I think it would be pretty cool to have leaves blowing up in the air after cars fly by them on the road or somthing, and making rustling sounds when you do so.
The small added features in a game are the ones that make it feel more complete and immersive imho.

DOnt take this personally BB becuase its not directed at you (i just needed something to quote ) but lets try and NOT spend 8 pages extrapolating how the PS3 can do trees better than the 360 or that it must be because of the teh cell, etc.. Thanks.

 

[expletive]

I would say launch titles yeah, but 1st gen games period I don't know

I think by the time the PS3 comes out the xbox360 should have a few great looking games out that will look just as good or better then what the ps3 launches with

Yes but i htink people were comparing LAUNCH games on PS3 to the launch games on 360, so that would be the 360 games that are already out (including DOA4?).

 

[expletive]

well i look at it this way, cell is exotic as well as xenos moreso than xcpu and rsx as they are more "traditional". so devs will be able to squeeze more out of them (rsx and xcpu) in the beginning. that's only logical! but who knows...

Right my point being that devs have had a cell for awhile, even though its underclocked. I dont htink devs had a full xenon (even underclocked) until much later in the relative timeline. Couple that with the fact that the RSX will eb very similar to the Nvidia parts in the dev kits now and i think theyve got a pretty good idea of how to code for the system compared to the 360 kits which were clearly rushed to make the 2005 launch.

 

[Bad_Boy]

DOnt take this personally BB becuase its not directed at you (i just needed something to quote ) but lets try and NOT spend 8 pages extrapolating how the PS3 can do trees better than the 360 or that it must be because of the teh cell, etc.. Thanks.

No offence taken. I was just giving an example of the e3 leaves demo because its the only one i could think of that related to what Tommy might be talking about. Sorry?

 

[dukmahsik]

next gen trees!

(maye we'll see this earlier with oblivion for 360)

 

[pegisys]

In fact no by the time the PS3 hit which until now is rumored as spring there will not be a single second generation 360 game out,in fact most will be first gen games that din't make it to launch like Obiblion or Ghost Recond 3 or games that were target for march or april far from second generation.

well I don't think the PS3 is going to make it out by the spring, maybe in japan

I never said anything about second gen games, the games will still be considered first gen but I think they will be alot better looking then what the 360 has now and look as good as what the PS3 launches with

EDIT:

Yes but i htink people were comparing LAUNCH games on PS3 to the launch games on 360, so that would be the 360 games that are already out (including DOA4?).

well thats to be expected but he said first gen not launch titles, not unless the first gen is only the launch titles, then I'm wrong

 

[expletive]

In fact no by the time the PS3 hit which until now is rumored as spring there will not be a single second generation 360 game out,in fact most will be first gen games that din't make it to launch like Obiblion or Ghost Recond 3 or games that were target for march or april far from second generation.

What about Splinter Cell 4? I think that may also be a 1st gen game.

I dont even consider most of the launch titles even 1st gen, most were very rushed so id put them at .75 gen.

 

[RavenFox]

We can chalk that up under "No shit". Xbox 360 games were the same way at E3, but people didn't care. It was supposed to look good since it's on a next gen system.

I think Sony wrote a check that is going to bounce on their ass. They showed these videos of how games are GOING to look like and when they finally show playable stuff, people are going to expect that quality.

It's easier to under-promise and over-deliver than to deliver on what you promised.

On to the Tommy T. comment, I mean, who cares how a tree looks in PGR3? In a game where you'll be whizzing past them at over 100 miles an hour who cares? As a developer of a launch game, whose going to devote time and assets to trees? It just doesn't make sense from a development aspect. I could see if it was a game where you could get out of the car and walk around, but I think Tommy Boy is just being a little too nit picky. It would be interesting to know the game that he was comparing to PGR3.

You seem to have missed the point of what we have been striving for over the years. I guess we should have stopped at 3DFX then.
The PG team sure spent alot of time on the road that also whizzes by.

 

[Titanio]

I love the sacrasm, but...

Seriously, this rumor crap is getting out of hand. I wouldn't be surprised if many games were very early in development. Does not mean a console cannot launch in spring (June 19th is still spring).

I don't know about the first set of comments, but the second come from someone who may very well have played PS3 games in development. That's not to say I think his opinion is worth a whole lot - I don't know him - but he has worked on a lot of a games, he presents on G4 I believe etc.

 

[Confidence-Man]

Doesn't PGR3 use SpeedTree? They only use sprites for trees in the distance.

 

[Karamazov]

I remember an old ps2 tech demo showing dozens of trees with individual leaves, and the wind blowing and making them move, that was looking really good, never seen it in a ps2 game...

 

[Qroach]

That's why tech demos are not representitive of real games...

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Bad game

I remember an old ps2 tech demo showing dozens of trees with individual leaves, and the wind blowing and making them move, that was looking really good, never seen it in a ps2 game...

I apologize if I do not understand you correctly my friend but if you are saying you would like PS2 game to have this feature I feel that is not so good concept for actual real-time game. If such technology is used in real game for what is background aspect then not enough processing power is left for important aspects no? Maybe Xbox360 or PS3 can have this technology for actual game not just hardware demo.

 

[Thegameman]

What about Splinter Cell 4? I think that may also be a 1st gen game.

I dont even consider most of the launch titles even 1st gen, most were very rushed so id put them at .75 gen.

Sorry but on easy to code hardware is not like that,as DOA 3 for the xbox proves there are not many games on xbox that surpase it even that it was a launch game.



Games will improve but don't spec a great leap on such and easy to code for console.


The xbox 360 games were build almost by the same amount of rush as xbox ones,i still remember how Halo had frame rate problems and jagies on E3 2001.

 

[pegisys]

Sorry but on easy to code hardware is not like that,as DOA 3 for the xbox proves there are not many games on xbox that surpase it even that it was a launch game.

Games will improve but don't spec a great leap on such and easy to code for console.

The xbox 360 games were build almost by the same amount of rush as xbox ones,i still remember how Halo had frame rate problems and jagies on E3 2001.

the xbox360 dev kits were pretty much a different architecture then what it ended up being, the xbox just used slower pc's with had the same architecture so the only difference would be a speed upgrade it's pretty easy to plan ahead for

I think it's alot of games that surpassed DOA3 on a technical level, doa didn't use any of the xbox's lighting or texturing techniques or any advanced shaders

 

[Pozer]

Don't forget the ps2 launch games which most were graphically inferior to 2nd/3rd gen dreamcast games.

I suspect some launch ps3 games will be graphically better than some 2nd gen x360 games and some won't be. I think it depends on the resources and the developer. I forsee 'Game A' coming out on x360 blowing away everything on the ps3, then 'Game B' coming out on ps3 doing the same. This will repeat for about 2 years. I don't think either console will surpass the other on average until about late 2008/early 2009. By then devs will have 3rd/4th generation cell based game engines and be using more of the BD-drive (art creation costs will fall). By then the x360 will be like a megadrive/genesis circa 1993/1994 and the the ps3 will be like a Snes of the same period.

Don't flame me I happen to own a 360 and love it. i also believe the 360 launch titles are the most rushed launch titles in history of launches and are not indicative of the consoles power.

 

[expletive]

Sorry but on easy to code hardware is not like that,as DOA 3 for the xbox proves there are not many games on xbox that surpase it even that it was a launch game.



Games will improve but don't spec a great leap on such and easy to code for console.


The xbox 360 games were build almost by the same amount of rush as xbox ones,i still remember how Halo had frame rate problems and jagies on E3 2001.

I think what youre saying is that 360 games wont improve much as time goes on because developers have maxmized its power already becuase of great development tools. If that is what youre saying than i couldnt disagree more. I think as developers get used to muli-core CPUs and the very robust feature set of Xenos (as well as mastering the EDRAM)we will see some incredible things on the 360. Things we probably would doubt today.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That plus the likelihood that RSX is a more conventional/used design than Xenos definitely gives them a leg up.

The tricky parts of Xenos are for AA and tesselation and things. In general rendering, like rendering trees, it's accessed the same as any GPU. The software sends lists of vertices and the GPU renders them. There's nothing about Xenos that'll stop it achieving high-end performance (assuming unified shaders work as well as they should) and nothing devs need to do to get the US working efficiently (according to ATi's talk of their automatic load balancing). The tricks of Xenos come in getting better+cleverer performance, and you need to factor these in for AA etc. But that's extra source.

As such, there's nothing between the GPU's that means it's easier for devs to write quality trees on PS3 than XB360. Both use conventional APIs in DirectX and a varient of OpenGL (from what we hear, though I haven't seen the SDKs for either kit) and getting them to output graphics should be no harder than getting your PC to output graphics.

 

[expletive]

The tricky parts of Xenos are for AA and tesselation and things. In general rendering, like rendering trees, it's accessed the same as any GPU. The software sends lists of vertices and the GPU renders them. There's nothing about Xenos that'll stop it achieving high-end performance (assuming unified shaders work as well as they should) and nothing devs need to do to get the US working efficiently (according to ATi's talk of their automatic load balancing). The tricks of Xenos come in getting better+cleverer performance, and you need to factor these in for AA etc. But that's extra source.

As such, there's nothing between the GPU's that means it's easier for devs to write quality trees on PS3 than XB360. Both use conventional APIs in DirectX and a varient of OpenGL (from what we hear, though I haven't seen the SDKs for either kit) and getting them to output graphics should be no harder than getting your PC to output graphics.

So youre saying its no easier for developers who have been working on G70s (or at least access to final hardware of it, or at LEAST developer friends who have worked with it ) for the past 8 months to work with the RSX (assuming that G70 is its heritage of course)? The learning curve and understand strengths/weaknesses of the design isnt improved over a totally new design like Xenos?