close look of NV40

[I.S.T.]

Ok
I need to clarify somethings.
1. 5900XT is not an underclocked 5900 or 5950.. that is just a plain 5900... the SE and XT use slower 2.8 ns memory so they cannot achieve as high a clockspeed. and the XT goes even further by lowering the core clock by 10 mhz.
2. That first hyperlink does not even have a 5900XT in it
3. 5900XT is a highend video card... it may have a price like a middle end but it is a highend the performance results can show that
4. Aight you must have misread something because the 9700 pro isn't in the first 3 hyperlinks.
5. ATI and Nvidia are pretty much neck and neck... ATI is probably a better choice right now as it wins big in a few more than Nvidia does.
6. I wasn't saying what i thnk you said :? (lol) you said it

Also, in the case of the nVidia's GF-FX line, overclocking them doesn't mean all that much, unless I am mistaken

No offense meant to anyone... just explainin myself
-phreek

Jesus Christ, you're not reading what I am saying.

O.K., I used one review for the 5900 XT. I used the other for the 9700 PRO. You are supposed to compair the results in each part of the reviews I linked.

Dispite what you think, the 5900 XT is a middleend product. Just because the performence is high doesn't mean it's in a different market than what it claims to be in. It also seems I was wrong about the XT's clock speeds and memory. However, it still stands that it is a middleend product. For some reason nVidia claims it's a highend product. It's performence isn't high enough to be a highend product.

My quote about the GF-FX line and overclocking has nothing to do with ATi at all. It's just me saying that unless I am mistaken, that doesn't add too much performence to the cards in said line.

The 9700 PRO certainly was in the first link. It's in the URL! I'll put it in this post for you to look at it again. http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/sapphire/9700proue/ Notice the 9700pro? What makes you think it isn't in that link?

 

[Nappe1]

*gets a snack cup and some lemonade....

godi godi godi... brand new newbie with huge fanboyism attitude in twelve clock!

This should be fan to watch...

 

[I.S.T.]

Me, or him? j/k about both of us.

 

[gamingphreek]

Sry about that... i meant to edit that with the rest after i had read it. It is in the hyperlinks .
However... i do understand that you want me to cross compare the results...however i mentioned that earlier... you cannot compare results from completely different benchmarks. (ie a 9700 Pro review and a 5900 review) You should only compare cards that are in the exact same review (ie something like 5900 vs 9700 pro). This is because different computer different drivers environments. Also in 3rd and 4th hyperlinks down they are comparing 2 different things pixel fill rate and average frames per second.
The 5900Xt is a highend product, ANYONE can tell you that 59xx is highend 57xx and below is middle and low end. (i guess 5800 can be included in highend lol even thought it was crap ) If you want to be accurate 5900XT is the (lol this is insane) low highend (see what i mean) No matter what opinions are all 59xx cards are highend

(lol what was this thread about anyways )
-Phreek

 

[I.S.T.]

Compair the 9700 PRO review to this one then:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5LDE=

The system in it is very simular and actually faster than B3D's. The other 5900 XT review had an Athlon 64 in it, which is one hell of an advantege, as it dominates in games. And yet it still was beaten.


Compair the UT2003 benchmarks in B3D's review to the ones on this page: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5LDY= Same review as the one I linked to earlier in this post, just a different page.

 

[Sanctusx2]

Does 2-3 slot size even matter?

Someone explain to me why it matters if this is a two slot cooling solution or not? A lot of people seem to point it out with the implication of being critical. Not sure if it's just me or what, but both my current p4p800 and my previous Abit BH6 motherboard have quite a lot of breathing room between the AGP graphics card and the first PCI card. My 5900xt right now sports a zalman heatpipe(which isn't small by any standards) with a healthy gap remaining between the huge heatsink and my Audigy2. It could be twice as large and still fit comfortably.

 

[BetrayerX]

Compair the 9700 PRO review to this one then:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5LDE=

The system in it is very simular and actually faster than B3D's. The other 5900 XT review had an Athlon 64 in it, which is one hell of an advantege, as it dominates in games. And yet it still was beaten.

Far Cry demo info:

One important thing to keep in mind with this demo is that on NVIDIA GeForceFX cards this demo runs at Pixel Shader version 1.1 by default, while on ATI Radeon R3xx based cards it will run at Pixel Shader 2.0 by default. We decided to judge performance based on the default configuration the game uses as this is what most end users who simply install and play the game will be seeing on their computer screen.

And anyone who has opened the Shaders files after updating Far Cry will notice that all Shaders are defaulted to 1.1. Even on the 5950.....that's high end for you.

 

[I.S.T.]

Compair the 9700 PRO review to this one then:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5LDE=

The system in it is very simular and actually faster than B3D's. The other 5900 XT review had an Athlon 64 in it, which is one hell of an advantege, as it dominates in games. And yet it still was beaten.

Far Cry demo info:

One important thing to keep in mind with this demo is that on NVIDIA GeForceFX cards this demo runs at Pixel Shader version 1.1 by default, while on ATI Radeon R3xx based cards it will run at Pixel Shader 2.0 by default. We decided to judge performance based on the default configuration the game uses as this is what most end users who simply install and play the game will be seeing on their computer screen.

And anyone who has opened the Shaders files after updating Far Cry will notice that all Shaders are defaulted to 1.1. Even on the 5950.....that's high end for you.

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for posting that.

 

[gokickrocks]

Re: Does 2-3 slot size even matter?

Someone explain to me why it matters if this is a two slot cooling solution or not? A lot of people seem to point it out with the implication of being critical. Not sure if it's just me or what, but both my current p4p800 and my previous Abit BH6 motherboard have quite a lot of breathing room between the AGP graphics card and the first PCI card. My 5900xt right now sports a zalman heatpipe(which isn't small by any standards) with a healthy gap remaining between the huge heatsink and my Audigy2. It could be twice as large and still fit comfortably.

people are starting to switch to smaller pc cases such as the shuttle xpc line, which only allow 1 slot...

 

[AlphaWolf]

Re: Does 2-3 slot size even matter?

Someone explain to me why it matters if this is a two slot cooling solution or not? A lot of people seem to point it out with the implication of being critical. Not sure if it's just me or what, but both my current p4p800 and my previous Abit BH6 motherboard have quite a lot of breathing room between the AGP graphics card and the first PCI card. My 5900xt right now sports a zalman heatpipe(which isn't small by any standards) with a healthy gap remaining between the huge heatsink and my Audigy2. It could be twice as large and still fit comfortably.

The size of the cooler has more implications than just wasting another slot. It is there because it's required. Heat, noise and airflow may be significant side effects of the large cooler aside from wasting a slot.

 

[vrecan]

The reason people are interested in it and are making a big deal out of it is because its a sign that this beast is going to need a lot higher cooling then avg. Which means it is going to be a lot harder to get silent cooling which is very important to some people. Plus its less likely to have much headroom if its needing such eleborate cooling.


Edit** alpha beat me to it

 

[hmmm]

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5LDE=

Far Cry demo info:

One important thing to keep in mind with this demo is that on NVIDIA GeForceFX cards this demo runs at Pixel Shader version 1.1 by default, while on ATI Radeon R3xx based cards it will run at Pixel Shader 2.0 by default. We decided to judge performance based on the default configuration the game uses as this is what most end users who simply install and play the game will be seeing on their computer screen.

And anyone who has opened the Shaders files after updating Far Cry will notice that all Shaders are defaulted to 1.1. Even on the 5950.....that's high end for you.

No, that's not high end, that's The Way It's Meant To Be Played. Get with the game.

 

[Pete]

First off, welcome to the forums, gamingphreek!

It is very close right now and ATI seems to be doing a bit better off than Nvidia but saying that the 9700 PRO kills thats way over the top (not that its still not a fast card)

I agree with this. The rest of your posts, however, could use some work.

Doesn't anybody read here or look at temps??? Do a search on which whether ATI or Nvidia Ocs better. Nvidia by far. They dont NEED to put this big of a fan on. Nvidias temps are ALWAYS cooler than ATIs. Check out Anandtechs 20 card round up

OK, maybe that one was a little too eady, but I included it for completeness.

(dont quote me)

(Oops. 8))

You have it back ward Nvidia benefits MUCH more than ATI in overclocking. yes the temps are higher but what does that matter if it is overclocked so much higher.

I agree that nV tends to OC better, but how does that translate to nV benefitting more from OCing?

5900XT is not an underclocked 5900[/b] or 5950.. that is just a plain 5900... the SE and XT use slower 2.8 ns memory so they cannot achieve as high a clockspeed. and the XT goes even further by lowering the core clock by 10 mhz.

5900XT is a highend video card... it may have a price like a middle end

The 5900Xt is a highend product, ANYONE can tell you that 59xx is highend 57xx and below is middle and low end. (i guess 5800 can be included in highend lol even thought it was crap ) If you want to be accurate 5900XT is the (lol this is insane) low highend (see what i mean) No matter what opinions are all 59xx cards are highend

Low-end < Mid-range < High-end. So, mid-range, right? I agree the 5900XT appears to perform very closely to the 5900, but the price puts it in mid-range (9600XT, 5700U) territory.

Now that I've exposed the disparity between your contentions and your own statements, we can move on to the meat of the matter:

As to something about Nvidia cards getting beaten by all the ATI cards...what the hell have you been reading. yes ATI is overall a little bit better but they are neck and neck. 9700 PRO beating nvidias highed... still dont know where you got all that from 9700 gets beaten by 5900XT. It is very close right now and ATI seems to be doing a bit better off than Nvidia but saying that the 9700 PRO kills thats way over the top (not that its still not a fast card)

No doubt a 5900XT is a good card in its own right, but there are many reasons I consider a 9700P currently a better buy than an equally-priced 5900XT. Here are some specific ones: Xbit, Nordic, THG, D-L.

I'm guessing by the fact that your posts contain more passion than facts that you're younger and thus less wise to the ways of 3D cards than most here. I, for one, would appreciate less coloratura and more clarity (or, less noise and more signal), mainly because we have enough of the former as it is. No need to get upset if someone claims one card is faster than another, especially if it's true. And try not to contradict yourself in your own posts.

Anyway, hope you stick around to debate the good and bad points of NV40 and R420. You seem to have a good attitude, and I guess that counts more than getting all the facts right all the time.

 

[Rookie]

Thank u very much,991060,u just like a watchdog cruising on the Chinese hardware sites.

U can easily found a job on this industry.

 

[gamingphreek]

Greetings,
Sorry getting a little worked up but ive been researching this card for about a month and i knew what i was talking about. According to benchmarks Nvidia benefits much more from a higher clockspeed than Nvidia. (Basically Nvidia= Intel and ATI=AMD) I assume this is because Nvidia has a longer pipe and ATI's is shorter (again like the Intel and AMD comparisons)
Second thing is i always thought that a chipset determines whether it goes into High Middle or Low end not the price. In fact i just upgrade to an MSI 5900XT with VIVO (lol from an AWESOME Geforce 2 ) On one review i read (believe it was Hard OCP) said that it is the Value section of the Highend. Price/Performance wise it is split but nonetheless i thought a chipset determined what class it was in (Only in Video Cards now that i think about it)
I do take back my previous statement. The 5900 may have more feature but the 9700 pro was a previous highest end card therefore it edges out a bit.
Thankyou for the welcome. I appreciate it. (for you info you guessed it right, i am a younger person just about to get Drivers license )

 

[MrBond]

*grabs some popcorn*

*munch munch*

digi, you want some?

 

[woz_mann]

personally the first thing I will be doing is ripping off the heatsink, and adding watercooling. Heat issue solved!

Looks like the Gainward CoolFX will be back!

 

[hmmm]

Greetings,
Sorry getting a little worked up but ive been researching this card for about a month and i knew what i was talking about. According to benchmarks Nvidia benefits much more from a higher clockspeed than Nvidia. (Basically Nvidia= Intel and ATI=AMD) I assume this is because Nvidia has a longer pipe and ATI's is shorter (again like the Intel and AMD comparisons)
Second thing is i always thought that a chipset determines whether it goes into High Middle or Low end not the price. In fact i just upgrade to an MSI 5900XT with VIVO (lol from an AWESOME Geforce 2 ) On one review i read (believe it was Hard OCP) said that it is the Value section of the Highend. Price/Performance wise it is split but nonetheless i thought a chipset determined what class it was in (Only in Video Cards now that i think about it)
I do take back my previous statement. The 5900 may have more feature but the 9700 pro was a previous highest end card therefore it edges out a bit.
Thankyou for the welcome. I appreciate it. (for you info you guessed it right, i am a younger person just about to get Drivers license )

Just... wow. That is an awesome post. No, seriously. A number of people have taken pot shots at you in this thread. You haven't taken any offense or replied in kind. That is remarkably commendable. I am not sure I wouldn't have been driven off in a similar situation. I should assure you that I'm sure most of the insults were just a little good-natured ribbing, but sarcasm and the like are notoriously difficult to detect in text-only communication. Most people would have gotten angry. You didn't. That's awesome. Truly, welcome to the forum. I hope you stick around and bring friends. Any forum would be happy to have more members like you.

Anyway, I think some of your earlier arguments were dubious, but people are already working on that. So I didn't really agree with the substance of your statements, but the style was refreshing and laudable.

And I'm not trying to scold those who made a few little jabs in this thread. I think they were good-natured. I think such behavior is to be expected. I do the same sort of thing. So I'm not condemning; I'm just saying that most people get mad and then get over it. gamingphreek seemingly didn't even get mad, so I guess he's generally a couple steps ahead of me.

Cheers.

(And I'm not posting fiend over here, so I don't presume to speak for everyone.)

 

[ThreeFlow]

personally the first thing I will be doing is ripping off the heatsink, and adding watercooling. Heat issue solved!

.....'til you realise your water is starting to boil....

 

[tmod]

I'd like to see the Far Cry numbers for the 6800 with the game running in OpenGL mode...