Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

[Seanspeed]

I'll trust the financial statements over your impressions.

Where did I say anything about how I felt about the games? I'm not actually huge on Remedy's games myself. But I also know that's cuz they're just not necessarily my thing, rather than them being bad.

Most of your argument stems from this idea that their games aren't good and are technically bad, and it's the whole reason they're in financial trouble. It's just a hugely out of touch argument on multiple levels.

 

[Boss]

Where did I say anything about how I felt about the games? I'm not actually huge on Remedy's games myself. But I also know that's cuz they're just not necessarily my thing, rather than them being bad.

Most of your argument stems from this idea that their games aren't good and are technically bad, and it's the whole reason they're in financial trouble. It's just a hugely out of touch argument on multiple levels.

Yea that's not my argument at all. I personally don't rate their games nor do i rate their technical prowess but, my argument is that their games aren't generally liked by the mass market. This is backed by their low sales and low revenue. Finally during our discussion, you've had absolutely no data to back up your arguments at all. You've used subjective phrases like critical success and financial success. However, the financial statements contradict your opinions. As for the critics, it shows that there's little correlation between what the critics say is good and what the audiences actually purchase. Unfortunately, what the audience purchases is the actual barometer of success.

 

[trinibwoy]

Unfortunately, what the audience purchases is the actual barometer of success.

Financial success yes. But let’s not pretend the mass market is some barometer of artistic quality. Remedy in general doesn’t seem to cater to the average mouth breather who devours call of duty every year. Now whether that’s a smart financial decision is a different matter altogether.

 

[Boss]

Financial success yes. But let’s not pretend the mass market is some barometer of artistic quality. Remedy in general doesn’t seem to cater to the average mouth breather who devours call of duty every year. Now whether that’s a smart financial decision is a different matter altogether.

That is certainly an interesting categorization of the average gamer...

 

[iroboto]

Holy heck guys. Let’s tone the rhetoric down or begin planning the parks to do grass touching field trips.

We do not treat each other this way IRL, let’s try to keep that respect online as well.

 

[raytracingfan]

Holy heck guys. Let’s tone the rhetoric down or begin planning the parks to do grass touching field trips.

This is what happens when a graphics forum spends a whole year waiting for the announcement of a new generation of gaming GPUs and the Switch 2 but gets nothing.

 

[snc]

Kinda hilarious that bloober didnt bother to check how pssr looks in their game when artifacts are visible in literaly first scene They should just go back to prepatch version with higher internal res, no pssr and lack of artifacts.

 

[Metal Snake Eater]

looking back at DF performance Differences in Alan Wake 2 I did a quick math to get the performance difference between the PS5 & PS5 PRO based off their previous analysis of the game between RTX3070 and PS5,
The PRO is a little less than 10% than 3070 that would put it around 76fps in that same scenario


that would make the PS5 PRO to be faster than Base PS5 by around 33%
That makes Digital Foundry's Analysis of Gameboost delivering similar Percentage of performance to be Accurate by around 30-35%




likewise here we are seeing 10-15% in Silent Hill 2 between PRO and PS5 but with PSSR cost of (2ms) and Resolution Difference (864p vs 900p) and in this scenario the PRO would be around 64-65fps (around 25% + Res Difference) without factoring TSR cost on the PS5 so we might be looking at around same Percentage by 30-35% again

*just my take*



so in overall we are truely looking at an average 30 - 35% between the two Consoles with "up to 45%" being best case scenario which Sony hinted at

 

[Boss]

looking back at DF performance Differences in Alan Wake 2 I did a quick math to get the performance difference between the PS5 & PS5 PRO based off their previous analysis of the game between RTX3070 and PS5,
The PRO is a little less than 10% than 3070 that would put it around 76fps in that same scenario
View attachment 12333

that would make the PS5 PRO to be faster than Base PS5 by around 33%
That makes Digital Foundry's Analysis of Gameboost delivering similar Percentage of performance to be Accurate by around 30-35%


View attachment 12334

likewise here we are seeing 10-15% in Silent Hill 2 between PRO and PS5 but with PSSR cost of (2ms) and Resolution Difference (864p vs 900p) and in this scenario the PRO would be around 64-65fps (around 25% + Res Difference) without factoring TSR cost on the PS5 so we might be looking at around same Percentage by 30-35% again

*just my take*

View attachment 12335

so in overall we are truely looking at an average 30 - 35% between the two Consoles with "up to 45%" being best case scenario which Sony hinted at

You should never ever use 1 data source to extrapolate and arrive at a conclusion.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yea that's not my argument at all. I personally don't rate their games nor do i rate their technical prowess but, my argument is that their games aren't generally liked by the mass market. This is backed by their low sales and low revenue. Finally during our discussion, you've had absolutely no data to back up your arguments at all. You've used subjective phrases like critical success and financial success. However, the financial statements contradict your opinions. As for the critics, it shows that there's little correlation between what the critics say is good and what the audiences actually purchase. Unfortunately, what the audience purchases is the actual barometer of success.

Your arguments have so very clearly leant on this idea their games aren't good and that their technical states are some major factor for why they dont sell better.

You cant just pretend you haven't said this stuff. You have. And you're literally still doing it here, while bizarrely claiming you're not. lol

 

[Boss]

Your arguments have so very clearly leant on this idea their games aren't good and that their technical states are some major factor for why they dont sell better.

You cant just pretend you haven't said this stuff. You have. And you're literally still doing it here, while bizarrely claiming you're not. lol

I'm still waiting for you to provide data to back up your claims.... None exists but, I'll continue to wait. Talking never changes my mind, only data. If you have a claim to make, make it with data.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Talking never changes my mind, only data.

Where do you keep your USB port

 

[Boss]

Where do you keep your USB port

View attachment 12344

 

[Flappy Pannus]

To try and get this thread back on track:

Just a DF Direct clip so not a full-on review, but can echo the positive impressions on scalability. Checked out the PC version briefly, and while I've seen some consternation about its demands at native res + epic settings (a 4090 will apparently struggle to hit 60fps at 4k/epic), as always my main concern with any game (especially UE4/5 based) is stuttering, and the PC version acquits itself well here.

There's a brief shader compilation process when you first boot up the game - no notification as such which I prefer, but it is very brief so game startup is just delayed by ~20sec or so on my 12400f. Through an hour of play I noticed perhaps 2 shader compilation stutters, but that seemed to be it. Zero traversal stutters that I noticed as well, solid frame pacing - also note that I was playing this from a HDD.

Again a relatively short test, but what was also impressive was how well DLSS worked in this game, transparency effects and DOF do not have any excessive blur/artifacts, even at Ultra Performance. No doubt in part due to the art style, the isometric view means that a lot of the situations where the lower levels of DLSS can break down with moire patterns/shimmering just aren't present here, so the difference in upscaling levels basically mean the game just becomes slightly less sharper, which is ideal instead of certain effects being completley bugged out (like say, motion blur in the full Horizon games). With 4K DLSS Ultra Performance and High settings (anything about Medium turns on Lumen), I get 60fps I'd say 98% of the time on my 3060, just some short drops in some cutcenes. Or you can go for DLSS Performance and medium (which still looks very comparable) for 60.

DLSS UP, 4k Output, High Settings:

So a very solid UE5 release...on a technical level. Now, charging $80 CDN for a 5-hour Lego game, and requiring a PSN account (leading to some actually not being able to play it on launch day due to problems with Sony's servers) is another matter, these two facets are likely what's leading to the 'mixed' rating on Steam...but that's outside the scope of this thread.

 

[Globalisateur]

00:00 Introduction
02:34 PS5 vs PS5 Pro Image Quality Comparison
05:30 PS5 Pro Performance/Quality Modes Frame-Rate Test
09:03 Disc Version 1.00 versus Patch 1.05 on PS5 Pro
12:23 Conclusion

Interesting to see the same foliage flickering effects that Jedi Survivor has. I'd say at this early stage for PSSR, its deficits are becoming evident when the input resolution is sub-1080p (admittedly though not enough examples yet to pin this solely on PSSR and not some compatibility engine quirks with these particular games). Performance is at least improved though.

That being said, it's hard for me to understand how a patch like this gets released in this state. Sure SH2 on PS5 could def be sharper, but UE5's temporal method is decent enough - the main gripe was performance. This largely fixes that, but now you're walking through a sea of flicker. The image quality downgrade is so blatantly obvious that I just don't get how this was signed off, it clearly needs far more work from either Blooper or Sony with PSSR upgrades, so if you're getting this result now, just put PSSR on the backburner and give players the performance boost they want. Is Sony providing some incentive to release Pro patches as quickly as possible or something? Bizarre.

From reading the forums, Jedi Survivor, Alaw Wake 2 and SH2 where one of the worst ports on PS5 Pro. I am so happy Digital foundry started with those so from now on things can only go better.

 

[Below2D]

From reading the forums, Jedi Survivor, Alaw Wake 2 and SH2 where one of the worst ports on PS5 Pro. I am so happy Digital foundry started with those so from now on things can only go better.

They didn't start with those. They did F1 24, TLOU Part II, Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2, and FF VII Rebirth before them.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

From reading the forums, Jedi Survivor, Alaw Wake 2 and SH2 where one of the worst ports on PS5 Pro. I am so happy Digital foundry started with those so from now on things can only go better.

As @Below2D that's not really the case, however AW2/SH2/Jedi all have something in common in that they're trying to reconstruct from far lower resolutions than those other games are. PSSR being able to do a solid job of reconstruction when the input res is ~1440p isn't that surprising as virtually all reconstruction methods can do a decent job starting in the range, plus some of those games (such as TLOU2) had very soft TAA where almost any other upscaling method would deliver improved results.

I'd definitely like to see a full video of Horizon:FW/ZD Remastered at least since they're using their own upscaling solution which is apparently fantastic, that unique property deserves a closer look. But with all the new releases right now I suspect DF is just swamped, also a lot of the ugrades are pretty straightforward - quality mode is now performance with better stability (in most cases) due to PSSR. Those really don't warrant 15+ minute videos and can be covered in DF Direct commentary for the most part.

That means the more 'complex' (meaning, shitty) releases are going to get more attention, because there's just more areas to cover - but DF's focus on this also ups the probabilty that these issues will be addressed. The image qualtiy faults in SH2/AW are so egregious - to where PSSR may actually be doing a worse job than FSR2! - that I expect they will be addressed in some fashion. I'd be very surprised if further patches or PSSR upgrades (or, just not using it for the time being) don't drop to improve things somewhat.

 

[Gamer09]

from now on things can only go better

Sounds promising.

 

[chris1515]

As @Below2D that's not really the case, however AW2/SH2/Jedi all have something in common in that they're trying to reconstruct from far lower resolutions than those other games are. PSSR being able to do a solid job of reconstruction when the input res is ~1440p isn't that surprising as virtually all reconstruction methods can do a decent job starting in the range, plus some of those games (such as TLOU2) had very soft TAA where almost any other upscaling method would deliver improved results.

I'd definitely like to see a full video of Horizon:FW/ZD Remastered at least since they're using their own upscaling solution which is apparently fantastic, that unique property deserves a closer look. But with all the new releases right now I suspect DF is just swamped, also a lot of the ugrades are pretty straightforward - quality mode is now performance with better stability (in most cases) due to PSSR. Those really don't warrant 15+ minute videos and can be covered in DF Direct commentary for the most part.

That means the more 'complex' (meaning, shitty) releases are going to get more attention, because there's just more areas to cover - but DF's focus on this also ups the probabilty that these issues will be addressed. The image qualtiy faults in SH2/AW are so egregious - to where PSSR may actually be doing a worse job than FSR2! - that I expect they will be addressed in some fashion. I'd be very surprised if further patches or PSSR upgrades (or, just not using it for the time being) don't drop to improve things somewhat.

And the dev talking about future UE 5 games say they are reconstructing sub 1080p with newer PSSR version and it is working well.

 

[Seanspeed]

I'm still waiting for you to provide data to back up your claims.... None exists but, I'll continue to wait. Talking never changes my mind, only data. If you have a claim to make, make it with data.

My argument is merely based on pointing out the flawed reasoning for your own claims. There is no data that can prove those claims to begin with. I can point to the high sales of Call of Duty and say it's all because people simply think the word 'Duty' is funny. Pretty dumb claim, but there's no data you could bring up to factually prove I'm wrong.