Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

[davis.anthony]

Completely disagree. PS3 X360 gen was a lot better.
1) Consoles at start was on top PC level especially X360, not like PS5 XSX.
2) Graphics level before start of those conseles was so much lower, that new consoles was more than ready for next gen.

1. The legendary G80 released on PC not long after PS360 landed so they were only top for a few months, and unlike today the G80 powered GPU's were very affordable and available everywhere.

2. Maybe on console, but there were already some good 'next gen' games on PC by the time they released.

 

[Globalisateur]

To be fair, most games on PS4 are CPU limited, almost no complex, ambitious game is 60 on it. Let's have some faith, I'm sure we won't have to wait too long for someone to use a recent version of UE targeting 1080p to 4k with TSR. The best practices to use with nanite and lumen are being experimented right now. It's just that games take so long to come out, that there aren't enough examples to even understand if there are improvements.

IMO The problem of UE5 is its innefficiency on consoles and compromised results because of software RT. Some others engines (Metro, Avatar) can do both: hardware RT and 60fps. Also I fear developers target all the features for the PC version, so the console versions suffer.

 

[Charlietus]

IMO The problem of UE5 is its innefficiency on consoles and compromised results because of software RT. Some others engines (Metro, Avatar) can do both: hardware RT and 60fps. Also I fear developers target all the features for the PC version, so the console versions suffer.

When I look at something like wukong on PS5, even with it being an ancient version (5.0), I don't see too much inefficiency. Metro and avatar lack that geometry density, and avatar in particular has a washed out look, the rtgi there is "weak" for lack of a better term.

This gen could have arrived 2-3 years later and it could have been for the better. PS4 still had some life in it.

I don't know why UE doesn't use hardware rt while using the simplified ray tracing of the software variant, but I'm sure it has it's reasons.

 

[DavidGraham]

A good video about the cost of Nanite in UE5.

 

[snc]

IMO The problem of UE5 is its innefficiency on consoles and compromised results because of software RT. Some others engines (Metro, Avatar) can do both: hardware RT and 60fps. Also I fear developers target all the features for the PC version, so the console versions suffer.

Some other engines (decima) dont need rt too look awsome

 

[Cynicalking]

Some other engines (decima) dont need rt too look awsome

Decima's lighting looks way to plain for my liking.

 

[Dictator]

Some other engines (decima) dont need rt too look awsome

If you like light leak and no per-pixel detail, sure.
I could find countless areas where lighting looks Bad in any Decima game. Pre-computed radiance transfer + SSAO, SSR, etc. is not good enough anymore.

 

[snc]

Decima's lighting looks way to plain for my liking.

nothing looks better on ps5

 

[snc]

If you like light leak and no per-pixel detail, sure

yep, taking forbidden west looks on ps5 vs shimmery pixel mess with ray tracing

 

[Cynicalking]

nothing looks better on ps5

It looks like a souped up PS4 game. And talking about lighting specifically, it's not impressive at all. Taken as a whole, it looks good, specially in screenshots.

 

[Globalisateur]

When I look at something like wukong on PS5, even with it being an ancient version (5.0), I don't see too much inefficiency. Metro and avatar lack that geometry density, and avatar in particular has a washed out look, the rtgi there is "weak" for lack of a better term.

This gen could have arrived 2-3 years later and it could have been for the better. PS4 still had some life in it.

I don't know why UE doesn't use hardware rt while using the simplified ray tracing of the software variant, but I'm sure it has it's reasons.

Have seen something looking as good overall and at 60fps as Avatar or Metro? Didn't DF said Avatar was the best RT showcase for multiplat games on consoles?

 

[Charlietus]

Have seen something looking as good overall and at 60fps as Avatar or Metro? Didn't DF said Avatar was the best RT showcase for multiplat games on consoles?

I think so. But my eyes just don't see a very impacting image.


To me, this just doesn't look very good (sorry for the low res image). Shouldn't those plants have more light transmission? Most of the game is kind of flat like that.

 

[Lurkmass]

I don't know why UE doesn't use hardware rt while using the simplified ray tracing of the software variant, but I'm sure it has it's reasons.

Acceleration structure management is the main bottleneck to enabling HWRT everywhere and the most recent AAA game release Black Myth: Wukong demonstrates this very well when most of the areas in-game don't use Nanite ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think so. But my eyes just don't see a very impacting image.

Jungles are very steamy and the lenses fog up.

 

[Liandry]

And yet, games were usually running at 30 fps with frequent drops to 20 or even lower. Games that weren't using deferred rendering were running pretty well, and were also sharper with a higher resolution. That's the same situation we have right now with ray tracing, with the added problem of FSR being not great.

Top PS3 exclusives used deferred rendering and run in almost stable 30 fps. (Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us).

1. The legendary G80 released on PC not long after PS360 landed so they were only top for a few months, and unlike today the G80 powered GPU's were very affordable and available everywhere.

2. Maybe on console, but there were already some good 'next gen' games on PC by the time they released.

1. The Legendary G80 was released full year later than The Legendary Xbox 360. And of we combine Cell + RSX, performance was close. PS5 and XSX was far behind top PCs, situation was better than for PS4 and Xbox One but still.
2. Can you please enlighteen me about this games?
(No offence, just try to make conversation mire fun).

 

[Charlietus]

Top PS3 exclusives used deferred rendering and run in almost stable 30 fps. (Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us).

Ehhh, let's define "almost stable 30 fps".
Resistance 3 and the last of us especially were cyberpunk on Xbox one levels of stable 30 fps. Which isn't very stable

 

[DavidGraham]

recent AAA game release Black Myth: Wukong demonstrates this very well when most of the areas in-game don't use Nanite ...

That's incorrect, Nanite is used everywhere and on literally everything in Black Myth (trees, rocks, mountains, caves, houses, statues, probs, even the terrain). Vegetations and foliage are not using Nanite, but that's not the fault of the game, 99% of UE5 titles still don't use Nanite for vegetation.

 

[QPlayer]

Top PS3 exclusives used deferred rendering and run in almost stable 30 fps. (Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us).


1. The Legendary G80 was released full year later than The Legendary Xbox 360. And of we combine Cell + RSX, performance was close. PS5 and XSX was far behind top PCs, situation was better than for PS4 and Xbox One but still.
2. Can you please enlighteen me about this games?
(No offence, just try to make conversation mire fun).

I don't agree. The X360/PS3 generation was no better than the current generation 3-4 years after its release. First of all, the resolution was much lower on the console at the time compared to the PC, don't forget this! About 650p vs 1080p. And the aliasing was generally dewy. Memories become beautiful...

The XSX/PS5 got powerful hardware, and this showed in their first years: many true 4K resolutions, many more games running at 60 FPS, mostly PC high settings, good AA. Then came UE5, with the overly resource-demanding features... The developers should have restrained themselves and not forced these new features in every case, while they could see that their game would not run in high resolution on a console because of this. Players would be 90% more satisfied with a more traditional implementation without Nanite and Lumen, which would still be very spectacular and thus get 4K image quality.

 

[DavidGraham]

And of we combine Cell + RSX, performance was close

That's impossible, the 8800GTX was at least 2x more powerful than any hardware out there, consoles or otherwise.

 

[Below2D]

Top PS3 exclusives used deferred rendering and run in almost stable 30 fps. (Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us).

You sure?