Xbox Series S [XBSS] [Release November 10 2020]

[Deleted member 11852]

Although that may be true, then why say they found a way to do it. Do they mean they read the updated developer docs?

No, they obviously know about the flag but it reads very much like they wanted to write code that worked fine on One S and scaled seamlessly on Series S. Depending upon how an individual coder or team feel about it, it can be preferable to have one slightly more complex codebase to do this, rather than forking the One S codebase for Series S - for the reasons I said above.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Looks like Microsoft is now promoting the Series S as a 1080p60 machine.


Makes a lot more sense than the previously suggested 1440p-upscaled-to-4K idea, IMO.

 

[BRiT]

For the title featured.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1371836528457048074

https://twitter.com/x/status/1371838648723865602

 

[Jay]

Looks like Microsoft is now promoting the Series S as a 1080p60 machine.


Makes a lot more sense than the previously suggested 1440p-upscaled-to-4K idea, IMO.

They never promoted it as 1440p-upscaled-to-4K.

This seems to be more so related to Forza than a change in marketing although I could be misinterpreting it myself.

Will agree that 1080p would be a simpler message as most people know what that means, also more accurate.

 

[BRiT]

This seems to be more so related to Forza than a change in marketing although I could be misinterpreting it myself.

Yup, that's the right take, it's featuring FH4. Other ads for other titles may show different targets.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

They never promoted it as 1440p-upscaled-to-4K.

From here:

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-s

And also:

I think promoting it as a 1440p console was never a good idea. It should be the console for people with older 1080p TVs and that's fine for a lower-tier offer.

We'll see if this is an isolated case with Forza but the message seems to be shifting to me.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Of course it does.

 

[Jay]

From here:

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-s

And also:

I think promoting it as a 1440p console was never a good idea. It should be the console for people with older 1080p TVs and that's fine for a lower-tier offer.

We'll see if this is an isolated case with Forza but the message seems to be shifting to me.

I see that as 1440p at up to 120fps.
The upscaling is just thrown to the side as a supported output, would've been the same with 1080p. But yea I can see what you meant now.

I think going by tweets @BRiT posted, it was talking about how forza plays on it, sounded legit. Otherwise it would still be talking up 120fps.

To be clear I'm not saying I disagree that they possibly should've primarily marketed it as 1080p, even though it said upto 1440p and we have games hitting over that.
I just never saw it as them marketing it as a sudo 4K box.

 

[AzBat]

Sounds like somebody looking for hot takes to make somebody look bad.

Tommy McClain

 

[BRiT]

I think going by tweets @BRiT posted, it was talking about how forza plays on it, sounded legit. Otherwise it would still be talking up 120fps.

To be clear I'm not saying I disagree that they possibly should've primarily marketed it as 1080p, even though it said upto 1440p and we have games hitting over that.
I just never saw it as them marketing it as a sudo 4K box.

Yup, two entirely different topics. One of which has been beaten into the ground long ago.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Sounds like somebody looking for hot takes to make somebody look bad.

Tommy McClain

Me: I think Microsoft is doing the right thing by changing their message about the Series S.
R.: You're just looking for ways to make Microsoft look bad!

There's no winning here..

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[AzBat]

Me: I think Microsoft is doing the right thing by changing their message about the Series S.
R.: You're just looking for ways to make Microsoft look bad!

There's no winning here..

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can't lose if you stay out of Xbox threads.

Tommy McClain

 

[Jay]

Me: I think Microsoft is doing the right thing by changing their message about the Series S.
R.: You're just looking for ways to make Microsoft look bad!

There's no winning here..

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Trouble with this, with all accounts that's not the case. Hence no win.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

You can't lose if you stay out of Xbox threads.

This reads like you're only comfortable with is a fan-thread whose participants are previously vetted by their level of fandom.
This thread isn't it, sorry.
Feel free to create that thread yourself, advertise it as such and I'll happily avoid it.

Otherwise, I'm not going to stay out of Xbox threads nor am I going to target and harass certain users for posting on any thread anywhere.

 

[eastmen]

This reads like you're only comfortable with is a fan-thread whose participants are previously vetted by their level of fandom.
This thread isn't it, sorry.
Feel free to create that thread yourself, advertise it as such and I'll happily avoid it.

Otherwise, I'm not going to stay out of Xbox threads nor am I going to target and harass certain users for posting on any thread anywhere.

You should participate in any thread you want. But keep in mind this is a discussion forum. So if you can't handle your ideas being discussed or challenged then you shouldn't post.

Like I have continued to say , the xbox series s is advertised as a console that can play games at 1440p and 120hz. Some games it can do that on and some it can't. But it is no diffrent than the Xbox series X or PS5 being advertised with 4k gaming. Neither can do that on every game. No one is saying those should be advertised as 1080p systems. Heck with BC some games may run under 1080p. Should they be advertised as only the lowest game resolution that can be run on them ? If not then why the difference with the Series S ?

 

[BoardBonobo]

You can't lose if you stay out of Xbox threads.

Tommy McClain

That makes it sound like everyone's a loser in the xbox threads

 

[Deleted member 13524]

So if you can't handle your ideas being discussed or challenged then you shouldn't post.

What ideas are being discussed in this post?

Sounds like somebody looking for hot takes to make somebody look bad.

Tommy McClain

I responded to @Jay's post who presented an actual argument and not a personal attack. How would you (@eastmen ) answer to a post like this?

Perhaps a much better question would be what is the purpose of posts like this? What kind of discussion do they promote?

Like I have continued to say , the xbox series s is advertised as a console that can play games at 1440p and 120hz. Some games it can do that on and some it can't. But it is no diffrent than the Xbox series X or PS5 being advertised with 4k gaming. Neither can do that on every game. No one is saying those should be advertised as 1080p systems. Heck with BC some games may run under 1080p. Should they be advertised as only the lowest game resolution that can be run on them ? If not then why the difference with the Series S ?

My opinion is that claiming the Series S is "a 1440p console" (which is very clearly stated by Microsoft's marketing material as I've shown above) is a mistake, and yes it should be advertised as a 1080p system.
The reason for it is that claiming 1440p for the SeriesS is inevitably putting pressure on developers to optimize their games to run at 1440p on the SeriesS.
And given how a good number of 3rd party developers are apparently doing SeriesS first and then just scaling up the resolution for the SeriesX version, a good portion of IQ effects (or even just framerate stability in some cases) are being left on the table which hampers the potential of the more powerful console.

The SeriesS should be the best bang-for-buck digital console for 1080p TVs out there and that's simply serving its purpose.
And if Microsoft manages to shrink it to a handheld in the middle of this generation, I think they'll have a massive winning product.

 

[eastmen]

What ideas are being discussed in this post?



I responded to @Jay's post who presented an actual argument and not a personal attack. How would you (@eastmen ) answer to a post like this?

Perhaps a much better question would be what is the purpose of posts like this? What kind of discussion do they promote?






My opinion is that claiming the Series S is "a 1440p console" (which is very clearly stated by Microsoft's marketing material as I've shown above) is a mistake, and yes it should be advertised as a 1080p system.
The reason for it is that claiming 1440p for the SeriesS is inevitably putting pressure on developers to optimize their games to run at 1440p on the SeriesS.
And given how a good number of 3rd party developers are apparently doing SeriesS first and then just scaling up the resolution for the SeriesX version, a good portion of IQ effects (or even just framerate stability in some cases) are being left on the table which hampers the potential of the more powerful console.

The SeriesS should be the best bang-for-buck digital console for 1080p TVs out there and that's simply serving its purpose.
And if Microsoft manages to shrink it to a handheld in the middle of this generation, I think they'll have a massive winning product.

1) You should perhaps message that person and ask. I wouldn't know I am not that person.

2) All your claims are baseless. We are at the start of the generation and the vast majority of games are designed for the xbox one / ps4 and scaled up not the xbox series s.

Again you avoid the question. The Series X and PS5 do sub 4k gaming so why are you not questioning those ?

 

[AzBat]

This reads like you're only comfortable with is a fan-thread whose participants are previously vetted by their level of fandom.
This thread isn't it, sorry.
Feel free to create that thread yourself, advertise it as such and I'll happily avoid it.

Otherwise, I'm not going to stay out of Xbox threads nor am I going to target and harass certain users for posting on any thread anywhere.

I'm comfortable with threads or posts from users who don't have an agenda. You clearly do & will go out of your way to participate in discussions that are clearly topics of something you do not like or care for. Had somebody other than yourself(or any number of other Sony fans on this board) had brought the news to this clearly Xbox-centric thread, then I wouldn't have responded as I had. Why you feel it necessary to go out of your way to spend your cycles causing grief to others in Xbox threads is beyond me. And as much as I dislike Sony/Playstation, I won't do the same. What's the point? I will just stick to the Xbox threads. If you think I'm harassing or personally attacking you then you can report my posts to the mods. Have a good day sir!

That makes it sound like everyone's a loser in the xbox threads

Ummm, LOL, that didn't turn out as I planned. Touche! Xbox threads have been a losing proposition here for awhile. So good form sir! LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Deleted member 13524]

1) You should perhaps message that person and ask. I wouldn't know I am not that person.

Well you did intervene in their favor which made me think you were aware of and in agreement with their reasoning, but ok we'll leave it at that.

2) All your claims are baseless. We are at the start of the generation and the vast majority of games are designed for the xbox one / ps4 and scaled up not the xbox series s.

There's a bunch of games showing the SeriesX with just a proportional resolution upgrade from the SeriesS, but the resolution is pushed too far up and framerate hurts in the process.
The latest example actually appeared today with Avengers, with the SeriesS rendering at 1440p and the SeriesX at close to native 4K while hurting in framerate stability.

You can see a discussion thread over this factor within the following posts:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...al-discussion-2021.62207/page-42#post-2194749
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...al-discussion-2021.62207/page-42#post-2194760
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...2021-xbsx-s-ps5-pc.62138/page-28#post-2194802
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...2021-xbsx-s-ps5-pc.62138/page-31#post-2195223
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...2021-xbsx-s-ps5-pc.62138/page-31#post-2195274
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...2021-xbsx-s-ps5-pc.62138/page-31#post-2195284

Outriders, Valhalla are games in the top of my head, but it's a recurrent factor in comparisons.

Again you avoid the question. The Series X and PS5 do sub 4k gaming so why are you not questioning those ?

I didn't avoid it, I just thought the answer was implicit in my previous post.

IMO the marketing message for consoles should be as follows:

- The PS4 and One/S are consoles meant for 1080p TVs on 8th-gen games.
- The PS4 Pro and One X are consoles meant for 4K TVs on 8th-gen games.
- The PS5 and Series X are consoles meant for 4K TVs on 9th-gen games.
- The SeriesS is meant for 1080p TVs on 9th-gen games.

The PS5 and the SeriesX won't do 4K internal render resolution on 9th-gen (or 9th-gen looking) games. That much seems obvious to me at this point, since the UE5 Demo worked at 1440p30 on PS5 hardware. They'll be rendering mostly at 1440p-1800p with upscaling for a 4K output.
And if the PS5 + SeriesX will be rendering at 1440p-1800p on 9th-gen games, then the SeriesS with less than half the GPU performance of either is most probably not going to render at 1080p-1440p, but rather at the same resolutions as the PS4+OneS for a 1080p output.

Right now we're in the very early stages of the 9th-gen consoles so all games are cross-gen (with 8th-gen game IQ), which is why the PS5+SeriesX are getting enough leeway to render at or close to native 4K in some cases (which is a waste of resources in the era of temporal reconstruction techniques and whatever FSR turns out to be).

To summarize, my point is about setting the ideal long-term commitment for a FHD or 4K TV output for each console. The SeriesS is the console for FHD TVs and the SeriesX is the console for 4K TVs. Recent examples show that devs trying to get the SeriesS to render at 1440p is hurting both the SeriesS and the SeriesX alike.
If the SeriesS is properly marketed and meant to be connected to a FHD TV then there are much more efficient ways to offer good IQ than to do 1440p render + downsampling to 1080p.

I'm comfortable with threads or posts from users who don't have an agenda.

Your perception of agendas and push for tribalism is a bit irrelevant to me and I'm not going to avoid posting in open discussion threads because of that. Feel free to hit the ignore button if my posts cause you grief.
This is the last time I'll feed this subject.