Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[Deleted member 13524]

No, it just provides a restrictive experience. It's still VR if it's a headtracking stereoscopic display. And much more than 90/100 degrees is nigh impossible/prohibitively expensive. If we wait until 160+ degrees is possible in a consumer level device, VR will be another age in coming.

Last week in Tokyo's Sony showroom, I tried Sony's HMZ-T3 with a PS4 playing Assassin's Creed 4. I thought the FoV was way too narrow to play a game comfortably. It felt as if I was playing it on a tablet about 35cm away from me.

I just checked the HMZ-T3's specs page and they claim a 45º FOV.
Well 90º means it has a ~4x larger viewing area, so I guess the Morpheus and the Oculus should be a lot better in that aspect.

It's rare for the first (second, third even in this case) iteration of a new tech to hit the ideals. Video compressed the image. TVs launched with miniscule screens. Audio had a very narrow frequency range compared to a human listener directly hearing the source; heck, early audio wasn't even stereo! We've got to start somewhere with suitable compromises to make a product that can actually get things rolling.

You're right, though my only concern is that whenever a new tech comes out with constraints that turn people off from the whole experience, the failed tech tends to go into the drawer for at least a decade.
I'm thinking VR from the 90s, Microsoft's Windows XP tablets or today's 3D movie theaters with obviously lacking luminance, ghosting effects between each eye and movies coming out with post-production 3D.
Enough time has to go by so that the consumers can forget the original experience and look at the updated tech as a new experience.

So sometimes it's best to keep it in the drawer for another 2/3 years to ensure an enjoyable experience than to get the consumers to hate it and then lose the opportunity window for ~10 years.

I'm not saying this is the case with Morpheus or Oculus, though.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Did anyone see a price estimate? I read that they were aiming at $250 or below which, if true, would be pretty sweet.

 

[pjbliverpool]

DK2 = 100 degrees. Should be very little difference. Both will be a little helmety, but the Morpheus a bit moreso.

Interesting link thanks. I'm dissapointed to see Occulus is also splitting the screen in half rather than giving alternating 1080p images to both eyes ala 3D vision. So despite the extra power offered by PC, the image quality is unlikely to be better with Occulus that it is with Morpheus aside from the addition of better AA and slightely higher framerates (75hz while I assume Morpheus will be limited to 60hz due to the source hardware if not the device itself).

As you say above though, if they are completely seperating the image for each eye it will avoid issues of ghosing and brightness dimming (which sounds like it's already apparent thanks to the low persistence.

Also on the bright side is that Occulus won't be over taxing on PC hardware. 1080p at 75Hz is the max you'll have to output seemingly (with the current specs anyway). By the time Occulus is at retail that kind of performance should be well achievable in the mid range segment with high graphics settings.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There is InfinitEye.

Just looked it up. :

"We use two 7″ HD screens (1280×800) 200$, 4 high quality Fresnel lenses (2 per eye) 20$, a 3 DOF tracker from YEI 99$, expanded PVC sheets for the casing ~10$, black paint 5$, mount stuff ~25$, cables ~12$."

So one screen for each eye. That's a significant cost. Well, unless Sony went with 720p also. Dual 5" 720 screens shouldn't cost that much now.

Could curved displays help in providing a wider fov?
Or is the problem entirely different?

Yep. A large curved OLED would definitely be workable, providing a slightly less stoopid looking headset if the screen is a foot-long rectangle hovering 6" from one's eyes. But the cost of such a display would be pretty extreme. You'd be looking at 4k horizontal res.

I suppose it's possible to develop a custom VR display that reduces resolution from the centre, thus reducing costs, but I expect true surround VR is waiting on some uber-tech.

 

[Daozang]

Yep. A large curved OLED would definitely be workable, providing a slightly less stoopid looking headset if the screen is a foot-long rectangle hovering 6" from one's eyes. But the cost of such a display would be pretty extreme. You'd be looking at 4k horizontal res.

I suppose it's possible to develop a custom VR display that reduces resolution from the centre, thus reducing costs, but I expect true surround VR is waiting on some uber-tech.

If VR proves to be something consumers are interested in, it can drive the curved screen evolution forward faster.
Provided the first iteration of the hardware won't scare people away, like it did in the past.

 

[Rangers]

I read somewhere that Sony said their VR is definitely not coming in 2014 (no brainer I guess).

So I dont know, its not just anything imminent.

I guess solid chance MS shows something at E3 as well. Everybody covering their bases.

 

[MrFox]

I hope they have an optical trick to reduce screen door effect and other artifacts. A fancy diffuser would be cool. Something to blend the rgb components together.

tan(90deg/2)*2 / tan(45deg/2)*2 == 2.5 times image width, so 6.25 times more area than the HMZ-T3.

There's a diminishing return with wide FOV. The difference between a 100 and 90 degrees FOV shouldn't be very perceptible (see journalists saying Sony and Occulus had a similar FOV), but 100 degrees needs 40% more pixels rendered to be perceived as the same resolution. For PC it's probably worth it, but for consoles it's hard to justify the compromise.

Unless GPUs can rasterize in a spherical projection? Is this possible?

 

[BoardBonobo]

I read somewhere that Sony said their VR is definitely not coming in 2014 (no brainer I guess).

So I dont know, its not just anything imminent.

I guess solid chance MS shows something at E3 as well. Everybody covering their bases.

The rumour is that MS are looking at AR and not VR. Which is understandable given the R&D dollars that went into Kinnect. If they are looking at VR solutions then they are going to be way behind Occulus and Sony unless they are willing to throw some very large sums of cash at R&D.

But knowing MS they'll probably just buy Occulus and then screw it up.

 

[baten]

I think it'd be capped to 30fps flicker. I don't think these small screens can refresh at 120Hz. Plus active stereoscopic displays have other artefacts. Independent screens is definitely better from an immersion POV. Plus PS4 isn't powerful enough to drive 2 x 1080p anyhow!

I meant one, not 2 screens of 1080. If it is in front of the eyes, each eye can see all of the screen, especially through a lens. You could alternately make each eye see the right image, so you could have just one screen, not 2 smaller screens. No need to split the image
But then - as you mention - probably 120Hz refresh is out of the question for now.

 

[Rurouni]

The problem with OLED is that besides it's more expensive, it has lower resolution. Note 3 I believe still using pentile. It is good enough for phone, but I don't think it's good enough for VR. Of course if they were targeting full HD, it should eventually be there (non pentile 5-6inch screen).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I meant one, not 2 screens of 1080.

If you are using the whole screen, you'll want to render a full screen for each eye. Hence the 2x 1080p comment. Currently PS4 has to render one 1080p image, or 960x1080 for each eye. Active shutters as you suggest would either require 2x 1080p, one for each eye, or render half res and upscale, at which point what's the advantage of active shutters? I suppose 960x1080 upscaled to 1920x1080 and fitted into 90 degrees FOV will look better than 960x1080 fitted to a 90 degree FOV, but I doubt the improvement would be worth the complexity, even if 120Hz was possible.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The problem with OLED is that besides it's more expensive, it has lower resolution.

Both Morpheus and DK2 are presently 1080p so the resolution aspect of the two technologies doesn't really come into it in that respect. Unless of course you're suggesting we might have seen a higher resolution screen on Occulus if not for the OLED tech.

 

[Rurouni]

Both Morpheus and DK2 are presently 1080p so the resolution aspect of the two technologies doesn't really come into it in that respect. Unless of course you're suggesting we might have seen a higher resolution screen on Occulus if not for the OLED tech.

What I mean is that right now with LCD you can get 1080p with 3 sub pixels for each pixel. On Note 3, you have 2 sub pixels for each pixel. Of course because of the pixel arrangement, it isn't exactly 2 sub pixels for each pixel, but for VR purposes that targeting 1080p, I think you can notice the lack of sub pixel. Since DK2 is using 5" OLED, I really want to know whether it's the standard 3 sub pixels arrangement or pentile, because Samsung itself haven't been able to make non pentile full hd screen at that size (at least not on their current devices).

 

[eastmen]

that's a pentile oled not all of them are like that. Samsung is the only one to make that. But assuming it is , there is a 1440p Samsung screen coming out this year for the galaxy 5 and also a 2k screen
that is rumored for the note 4. If we see a 2k oled pentile or not , it will be a huge boon for oculus and us.

 

[Cyan]

The rumour is that MS are looking at AR and not VR. Which is understandable given the R&D dollars that went into Kinnect. If they are looking at VR solutions then they are going to be way behind Occulus and Sony unless they are willing to throw some very large sums of cash at R&D.

But knowing MS they'll probably just buy Occulus and then screw it up.

hahah, that was fun I gotta admit. The advantage of AR to me is that is less intrusive, that's the only thing that doesn't click with me when it comes to VR. I even proposed the idea to create a monocle for VR, but now I know that would be impossible. I guess that Microsoft will either resort to Occulus or use Sony's VR, if Sony permitted, which I think they will not.

More impressions on Morpheus, from IGN this time.

 

[Daozang]

Both Morpheus and DK2 are presently 1080p so the resolution aspect of the two technologies doesn't really come into it in that respect. Unless of course you're suggesting we might have seen a higher resolution screen on Occulus if not for the OLED tech.

It was implied by P. Lackey on one of the videos that were linked in this thread that the consumer version of the rift might be higher res than 1080p.

Edit.
Sorry, I thought I found it here, but it was from Engadget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMvF05ZT70

 

[DieH@rd]

The Associated Press saw NASA Mars demo, they were blown away with it. Very realistic.

NASA Mars Project: The technology demo created in tandem with NASA utilized high-resolution images captured by both satellites and the Curiosity rover to transport a user to the surface of Mars. The rover itself also made an interactive appearance, separately navigated by Project Morpheus senior software engineer Anton Mikhailov on a DualShock 4 controller.

The parts of the landscape closest to the user were crafted from rover imagery, while mountainous vistas in the distance were filled in using satellite data. By depicting the surreal sensation of strolling around a chunk of the Red Planet, the minimalistic demo was the most immersive of those on display and showed off the non-game capabilities of Project Morpheus.

http://www.wcnc.com/entertainment/251285391.html

 

[London Geezer]

that's a pentile oled not all of them are like that. Samsung is the only one to make that. But assuming it is , there is a 1440p Samsung screen coming out this year for the galaxy 5 and also a 2k screen
that is rumored for the note 4. If we see a 2k oled pentile or not , it will be a huge boon for oculus and us.

Off topic but pretty sure the Galaxy S5 had a 1080p screen like the 4. There really is no need to increase resolution any further on a 5" screen.

 

[eastmen]

you might be right about the 1080p. I know they have a 1440p and 2k screen slated for this year.

 

[MrFox]

you might be right about the 1080p. I know they have a 1440p and 2k screen slated for this year.

link?