Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Gipsel]

AFAIK, it's always an implied reference period of an hour. ...because it makes sense to have a defacto standard on how you can gage how much power an appliance device uses regardless how long you effectively use it. In that sense, you are effectively comparing using the same baseline (the amount of watts over a period of an hour).

If you use it less than an hour, then you can always calculate it from the average draw over an hour number.

That's what the power in Watts tells you already. Why should an hour integration time be implied (which makes the whole thing redundant)? Why not two hours?
It simply makes no sense in this context.
Please, could we stop this stupid power/energy unit stuff? It was all said, and everybody claiming the Wh unit given on a power supply makes sense should think about this again with a clear mind. The proper arguments were given. All what's needed is to grasp the definitions of power and energy.

 

[DieH@rd]

I've found some interesting bits about X1 power supply specs.

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1mku5n/any_know_the_xbox_one_power_supply_specs/

http://i.imgur.com/qCRATnJ.jpg

I'm very surprised, I was thinking that X1 consumes around 170W... but 253W at 28nm? Even more than first X360, with 203W, 16.5A at 12V and 1A at 5V. But that was falcon at 90nm.

This is a good move. Launch X360 powerbricks were really hot, and this new one will run at at lower temperatures.

 

[sir doris]

That's what the power in Watts tells you already. Why should an hour integration time be implied (which makes the whole thing redundant)? Why not two hours?
It simply makes no sense in this context.
Please, could we stop this stupid power/energy unit stuff? It was all said, and everybody claiming the Wh unit given on a power supply makes sense should think about this again with a clear mind. The proper arguments were given. All what's needed is to grasp the definitions of power and energy.

I guess becuase energy companies charge in KWh, so it's easyer for the general public to put a real world cost on the difference between two or more appliances.

 

[Gipsel]

I guess becuase energy companies charge in KWh, so it's easyer for the general public to put a real world cost on the difference between two or more appliances.

I repeat, it's not going to help at all (there is no specified runtime, so you have to put an additional assumption in [like one hour runtime, without stating this assumption somewhere, it is simply the wrong unit], which results in a degenerate figure equal to plain Watts) and is simply nonsense in this case. We don't need to discuss this. Frankly speaking, it shouldn't be even up to discussion as it defies basic logic and accepted definitions (and is OT).
I have given examples (as did Bigus Dickus) where such an energy measure makes sense (daily consumption of a refrigerator, energy consumption for a dishwasher or a washing machine for a single run, energy capacity of a battery...).

And nobody needs to bother with an answer to this. It could only result in a lecture as a further repeat of the same stuff and not a discussion, as this is not open to discussion from my side. So I would opt not to answer anyway. I hope we can get back to topic now.

 

[NRP]

Gipsel,
perhaps you should throw some quantum mechanics into the Wh discussion, LOL!

 

[AlNom]

You mean Spaceballs, right?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE&t=1m24s


...................Anyways.

I hope we can get back to topic now.

 

[Gipsel]

Gipsel,
perhaps you should throw some quantum mechanics into the Wh discussion, LOL!

I'm not the one to confuse people with irrelevant stuff. I usually try to keep it basic.

 

[Cyan]

There will be some new information about the Xbox One architecture very soon. It sounds like they will share new information during the developers conference, September 26th, which -coincidentally enough- takes place just the next day after the Volcanic Islands presentation from AMD, when the NDA is going to be lifted. (thanks Rangers for the link and picture)

https://twitter.com/albertpenello/status/380951662900178946

 

[XpiderMX]

There will be some new information about the Xbox One architecture very soon. It sounds like they will share new information during the developers conference, September 26th, which -coincidentally enough- takes place just the next day after the Volcanic Islands presentation from AMD, when the NDA is going to be lifted. (thanks Rangers for the link and picture)

https://twitter.com/albertpenello/status/380951662900178946

Is there some proof of that NDA?

EDIT: I mean , something not related to mxm.

 

[Rangers]

Is there some proof of that NDA?

EDIT: I mean , something not related to mxm.

Not that I know of. Just speculation and rumors I guess. We will find out soon enough.

The Volcanic Islands NDA or one of them is up the 25th I think, if that's what you're asking. AMD is going to have some VI presentation that day.

And I think MS is having some developers conference on the 26th that people also like to connect to Xbox, warranted or not. I think this thing, although it doesn't look very Xbox related to me :http://www.buildwindows.com/

 

[XpiderMX]

Not that I know of. Just speculation and rumors I guess. We will find out soon enough.

The Volcanic Islands NDA or one of them is up the 25th I think, if that's what you're asking. AMD is going to have some VI presentation that day.

And I think MS is having some developers conference on the 26th that people also like to connect to Xbox, warranted or not. I think this thing, although it doesn't look very Xbox related to me :http://www.buildwindows.com/

But the //Build event was in June:

June 26 (from 9am) - June 28 (until 3pm)

 

[Jwm]

Aside from the chatter on Reddit and twitter where you see them avoiding tech comments while openly debunking others, it does make you wonder. Nelson said he had an NDA when responding to a tech questions, but that could be un-related to AMD. The NDA could be related to Surface 2 really, and that is on Monday I think.

It all bugs me a bit, why gag your employees with an NDA when you don't need one. Because there is one it makes me curious, I will be really shocked if there is more inside X1 than we know today. There are bits we are missing, but I can't see anything double apu/gpu/dpu etc. It does make sense that Surface 2 is arriving next week, and Xbox One could have some great features that tie into it (I am really hoping for a controller case).

Nintendo and Sony have something similar, and MS so far is left out. Other than SmartGlass, but even that can be matched by both if they wanted. Then again if MS wanted the biggest impact, I would have thought it would have all been at the first reveal. I know all that matters is when things really go on sale, but early adopters pay attention well in advance.

I still lean towards no secret sauce, while I think there still might be some yummy efficiency sauce out there.

Edit: It is still odd to me on the third-party stuff, and the lack of true demos or even previews. Are there driver related issues, is it performance related and they are still optimizing so they don't want to show things?

 

[Cranky]

Not that I know of. Just speculation and rumors I guess. We will find out soon enough.

The Volcanic Islands NDA or one of them is up the 25th I think, if that's what you're asking. AMD is going to have some VI presentation that day.

And I think MS is having some developers conference on the 26th that people also like to connect to Xbox, warranted or not. I think this thing, although it doesn't look very Xbox related to me :http://www.buildwindows.com/

The event on the 26th is a live stream from the Eurogamer expo. I do find it very odd that they would live stream this event and not Gamescom. There are lots of oddities about this. The AMD reveal the day before may be pure coincidence, but there several things seem scheduled to happen at or after that reveal.

 

[kots]

I still lean towards no secret sauce, while I think there still might be some yummy efficiency sauce out there.

Edit: It is still odd to me on the third-party stuff, and the lack of true demos or even previews. Are there driver related issues, is it performance related and they are still optimizing so they don't want to show things?

Yes it is strange ... where's AC4 or Watchdogs .... and i was expecting something like a tech demo or maybe an UE4 Elemental showcase .
It makes you wonder ...

 

[Rangers]

Yes it is strange ... where's AC4 or Watchdogs .... and i was expecting something like a tech demo or maybe an UE4 Elemental showcase .
It makes you wonder ...

Not tech discussion but, Ubi seems more allied to Sony to me, which is natural. More worrisome would be NFS Rivals and BF4, EA games, being demoed supposedly on PS4 (in the case of NFS we know it wasn't even PS4 since it crashed to windows, but at least it was called PS4 version).

Also TGS probably isn't the place for any Xbox focus, though this includes Gamescom etc.

But why would this surprise you of all people? If PS4 is even 5% more powerful devs will tend to show multiplatform titles on it, just as they tended to on 360 this gen.

Well the good thing is two months to XO launch. We will get multiplatform answers sooner rather than later and I cant wait the suspense is killing me.

 

[blakjedi]

The only reason people hold out hope is due to the 5billion transistor thing. No one has really been able to account for all of those yet. I can't for the life of me understand the secrecy.

If for example MS showed off a game that was so incredible and clearly distanced itself from the PS 4 in anyway, then when asked what kind of tech was behind the game, they made a "no comment" and a smirk I could see panties in bunches and excitement. That hasn't happened at all. Are people expecting a final console reveal with the "real Xbox one" power being displayed? I think we have already seen it.

I'm thrilled with the box as is and don't expect anymore than what we've already seen.

 

[Pixel]

The only reason people hold out hope is due to the 5billion transistor thing. No one has really been able to account for all of those yet. I can't for the life of me understand the secrecy.

6 transistors per sram bit x 8 bits x 33,554,432 (32MB) = 1.61 billion transistors plus additional disabled transistors (SRAM) for redundancy/yield

AMD HD7790 gpu contains 2.08 billion transistors. Of course the gpu in the XBox One is customized, but that should give us a ballpark.

The jaguar octo core cpu + 15 additional "coporocessors" + memory controller could easily take up the remaining +1.3 billion transistor

 

[blakjedi]

6 transistors per sram bit x 8 bits x 33,554,432 (32MB) = 1.61 billion transistors plus additional disabled transistors (SRAM) for redundancy/yield

AMD HD7790 gpu contains 2.08 billion transistors. Of course the gpu in the XBox One is customized, but that should give us a ballpark.

The jaguar octo core cpu + 15 additional "coporocessors" + memory controller could easily take up the remaining +1.3 billion transistor

So you think the xb1 gpu is a Bonaire... Which exactly fits the narrative so far, but it doesn't explain the NDA issue since Bonaire was released in march 2013. Why would MS have an NDA on itself? It would have that only if there was an external requirement placed upon them. Somewhere in that 5billion transistor count is something we either don't know or know but haven't linked to Xbox 1 and it seems to be a pretty big deal for some reason.

 

[Pixel]

So you think the xb1 gpu is a Bonaire... Which exactly fits the narrative so far, but it doesn't explain the NDA issue since Bonaire was released in march 2013. Why would MS have an NDA on itself? It would have that only if there was an external requirement placed upon them. Somewhere in that 5billion transistor count is something we either don't know or know but haven't linked to Xbox 1 and it seems to be a pretty big deal for some reason.

I think part of the problem is its been floating around that Microsoft gave AMD $3+ billion to design some customized chip so there must be some bleeding edge secret in there. The unexciting truth is that $3 billion is the expected value of the deal including support + royalties throughout the entire lifespan (possibly 10 years) of the console. 2021ish Xbox 4 will probably have some overlapping existence with the aging X1.

Multi-year deal between Microsoft and AMD revealed to be valued at over $3 billion.
“This required the coordination of multiple functional teams within AMD, as well as regular customer meetings with leadership teams responsible for handling the challenges of complex, muti-year deals. This project is valued at $3+B.”
http://business.financialpost.com/2...rice-tag-more-than-3-billion/?__lsa=5fcf-619d

Also nobody has evidence they Microsoft is bound by an NDA. Its circumstantial evidence because another tech dive is occurring a day after the amd lifts its NDA on the next generation of gpu.

I think X1 has architecture customization that let it hit above its weight, while PS4 has some unexpected limitations.

 

[Pixel]

That deal would include AMD being deeply involved with the MS & the fabs in the multiple die shrinks throughout the console's life.