Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Betanumerical]

So the DME's don't do anything to help performance, that's an interesting perspective. I guess MS just added them to reach a transistor count so they could say 5 billion.

DMA engines are a tiny amount of transistors its not like it would have increased the budget by a large amount.

We also know that every GCN card comes with two DMA units that can untile/tile on the fly, and theres no doubt that Jaguar also contains DMA by default.

So wether or not Microsoft added anything (aside from the compression) is really up to debate.

 

[AlphaWolf]

The point is that it's about the developers targeting 60fps (or any arbitrary framerate) from the get go and working around the hardware to ensure it. What the HW consists of exactly is immaterial to the design targets since FPS is so high up there in terms of what's contributing; it's up to the people involved to scale down or up various aspects according to what the HW can do.

I assumed that the actual level of visuals presented was also important, perhaps I was in error.

 

[Solarus]

I think you should be thanking the programmers and not all the not-so-special source. I can guarantee you the DME's and display planes had nothing to do with it, the eSRAM might have helped but the other two not so much.

oh, i was just going by what a programmer on teamxbox said. he suggested and thinks the reason xbox games are 60fps while ps4 is 30fps is because even though the ps4 might be more powerful it's not efficient, since fillrate is using all its power up. xbox's display planes offset that and is probably directly responsible for the 60fps? i might have gotten that wrong somewhere its over my head, heres the post. he clears up alot of fud aswell about the ram stuff

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=14004855#post14004855

i know he posts here so i'll leave it to him to explain it. its clear he knows his stuff and takes the time to explain to us techno newbies.

 

[Betanumerical]

oh, i was just going by what a programmer on teamxbox said. he suggested and thinks the reason xbox games are 60fps while ps4 is 30fps is because even though the ps4 might be more powerful it's not efficient, since fillrate is using all its power up. xbox's display planes offset that and is probably directly responsible for the 60fps? i might have gotten that wrong somewhere its over my head, heres the post. he clears up alot of fud aswell about the ram stuff

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=14004855#post14004855

i know he posts here so i'll leave it to him to explain it. its clear he knows his stuff and takes the time to explain to us techno newbies.

Astrograd is not a programmer, nor does he really know much about what he is talking about.

 

[Solarus]

Astrograd is not a programmer, nor does he really know much about what he is talking about.

i am not in a position to say if he does or doesn't know what hes talking about, but in his defense he is makinga logical guess based on what little info is avalaible. might not be a programmer but maybe enigneer? he knows much more than all those other "knowledgeble" people on txb thats for sure.

 

[Betanumerical]

i am not in a position to say if he does or doesn't know what hes talking about, but in his defense he is makinga logical guess based on what little info is avalaible. might not be a programmer but maybe enigneer? he knows much more than all those other "knowledgeble" people on txb thats for sure.

He extrapolates far far far off into a magical realm of fantasy, he has done it multiple times here and been completely shutdown nearly every time.

If he is seriously championing DME as some kind of magical 60FPS factor then its pretty clear how little he knows about how the hardware actually works.

 

[brasnial]

He extrapolates far far far off into a magical realm of fantasy, he has done it multiple times here and been completely shutdown nearly every time.

If he is seriously championing DME as some kind of magical 60FPS factor then its pretty clear how little he knows about how the hardware actually works.

You have already admitted your not a developer just like him so you no as much about how these machines work as him .
But somehow you seem to think your right he's wrong yet like him you have no real knowledge about what your talking about .
Strange a case of the kettle calling the pot black me thinks

 

[Billy Idol]

You have already admitted your not a developer just like him so you no as much about how these machines work as him .
But somehow you seem to think your right he's wrong yet like him you have no real knowledge about what your talking about .
Strange a case of the kettle calling the pot black me thinks

Did you ever read the posts of astrograd here at B3D? Should give you the answer...

 

[brasnial]

Did you ever read the posts of astrograd here at B3D? Should give you the answer...

No I have not......I have no knowledge of how these machines work or programing skills .so I believe best to let those who do have the knowledge explain to people there on the wrong path.
Other wise its just opinions from those who lack the knowledge to back up there claims .

 

[Betanumerical]

You have already admitted your not a developer just like him so you no as much about how these machines work as him .
But somehow you seem to think your right he's wrong yet like him you have no real knowledge about what your talking about .
Strange a case of the kettle calling the pot black me thinks

Im not a game developer nope, but I am a programmer who has a keen interest in CPU architecture, graphics and parallel computing.

You should not be so quick to say I have no idea how it works when I have looked at the tech specs quite thoroughly (and both machines are rather good).

No I have not......I have no knowledge of how these machines work or programing skills .so I believe best to let those who do have the knowledge explain to people there on the wrong path.
Other wise its just opinions from those who lack the knowledge to back up there claims .

You don't have to be working on the machine to have knowledge of how it works. But having a grounding in reality and trying to keep everything sane is generally a good way to go about things. Read through his posts and threads, and see how the entire B3D community responds to them.

 

[Themrphenix]

Yes, what I stated is factually correct, from inside info, although you can see it on vgleaks too. The bandwidth to the ESRAM is 102GB/s at 800 MHz.

I had heard from a little birdy that Microsoft was playing around with 850 MHz and 900 MHz up clocks on GPU and ESRAM that's why they were having yield problems?


So did they decide to go against that and not up clock because of bad yields and that's where the down clock rumor started?

Mister BKillian can you confirm or deny with your sources?

 

[Betanumerical]

I had heard from a little birdy that Microsoft was playing around with 850 MHz and 900 MHz up clocks on GPU and ESRAM that's why they were having yield problems?


So did they decide to go against that and not up clock because of bad yields and that's where the down clock rumor started?

Mister BKillian can you confirm or deny with your sources?

I've never seen a suggestion by anyone that Microsoft was going with a up clock, nothing from any reliable/semi-reliable source at least. The amount of heat that the up clock would cause would probably require a redesign in the thermals which probably wouldn't be that fun, this late in the game.

 

[Themrphenix]

I've never seen a suggestion by anyone that Microsoft was going with a up clock, nothing from any reliable/semi-reliable source at least. The amount of heat that the up clock would cause would probably require a redesign in the thermals which probably wouldn't be that fun, this late in the game.

I heard form a couple of birdies Microsoft toyed and played with the idea of a 50 MHz and 100 MHZ increase,but as far as I know they didn't go with it!This was around the same time the bad yields rumors started,or with in the same time frame.I am just saying if that's where the down clock rumors could have gotten started?

When I say I heard around the same time of down clock rumors and bad yield rumors doesn't mean this was all recent!Sometime info gets leaked late on some things!

 

[Betanumerical]

I heard form a couple of birdies Microsoft toyed and played with the idea of a 50 MHz and 100 MHZ,but as far as I know they didn't go with it!This was around the same time the bad yields rumors started,or with in the same time frame.I am just saying if that's where the down clock rumors could have gotten started?

Who exactly, because the last time you spoke you tried to pass yourself off as a developer, so id want to know exactly who your sources are before I believed anything you said.

 

[Themrphenix]

Who exactly, because the last time you spoke you tried to pass yourself off as a developer, so id want to know exactly who your sources are before I believed anything you said.

I work for Bethesda Softworks LLC.I have a cousin who does dubstep music,and yes I used his stage name!It is not uncommon for people on the Internet to use screen names to cover their identity!The source I was told by works for Microsoft!

 

[Solarus]

Did you ever read the posts of astrograd here at B3D? Should give you the answer...

i read his posts, theyre always very long and sound well informed, but if what you guys say is true i guess i shouldn't believe everything i read just because its long and well written.

sorry for taking it offtopic, but to get back ontop. is it possible that this generation sees the death of sub 720p games? i can't imagine any reason to go that low anymore. also with these compute shaders does this mean we'll see better physics and stuff like pc games have or will it be used for nonvisual stuff? id imagine stuff like particles would be a good fit for esram?

 

[Brad Grenz]

i read his posts, theyre always very long and sound well informed, but if what you guys say is true i guess i shouldn't believe everything i read just because its long and well written.

Acting like he knows what he's talking about is very much astrograd's schtick. Fortunately there are enough people on this forum who know better to shoot down all his lunatic theories.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Been thinking, i don't think anyone knows how old the display model of the Xbox 1 is. when you hear microsoft talk about the development of the console, they mention the collaboration being well over a year.

But ever since i saw the actual performance demonstrated before E3, it leads me to believe that everything but the parts inside of the console are what they mean. (such as the actual design, kinect and the new interface.) as of the reveal and before E3 the details of the parts inside have been left untouched but at the same time displaying near alpha results for a while.

The display model could possibly be as far back as March during their delays or before. with DRM being gutted and with betakits using all kinds of stuff, last minute details have already surfaced since the reveal. i'm guessing any more details and a December launch could be issued to relieve tension.

 

[eastmen]

I've never seen a suggestion by anyone that Microsoft was going with a up clock, nothing from any reliable/semi-reliable source at least. The amount of heat that the up clock would cause would probably require a redesign in the thermals which probably wouldn't be that fun, this late in the game.

could be why the box is so big and the size isn't even finalized yet.


Perhaps the massive heatsink and size of the console is from the higher clocks and perhaps we will get a scaled back version at launch.

I dunno so many rumors about this stuff.

 

[Betanumerical]

could be why the box is so big and the size isn't even finalized yet.


Perhaps the massive heatsink and size of the console is from the higher clocks and perhaps we will get a scaled back version at launch.

I dunno so many rumors about this stuff.

I was thinking more on die components interacting with each other, they probably wouldn't like all that extra heat that comes with the up clock.