NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[steviep]

Well, I'm not sure what MS has learned from the Wii but I've learned that a new gimmick can sell a lot of consoles for a reasonable time but it can't help selling a lot games because the hardware was too weak to satisfy the expectations of users and devs.
And seemingly the users also learned a lesson from not really buying into Nintendo's next gimmick again because the old one collected dust.

Attach rates on all 3 7th generation consoles are actually quite comparable.
Only Microsoft's box had an advantage by approximately 1 game per system. The "buy for Wii sports and let it collect dust and buy no games it's a fad" thing is disputed by facts.

That the Wii U's not setting the entire world on fire is a separate discussion, but you should know that Kinect is a very important tool to Microsoft.

 

[torbor]

Simple math: Xbox 360 sold 74 million
Kinect units sold: 20 million (arounf 30 percent)

Logical conclusion: Include kinect in every box while taking the risk of anger the majority of their costumers by gimping the hardware?!!??

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Simple math: Xbox 360 sold 74 million
Kinect units sold: 20 million (arounf 30 percent)

Logical conclusion: Include kinect in every box while taking the risk of anger the majority of their costumers by gimping the hardware?!!??

The thing is, as a Microsoft fan and purchaser of both Xbox and Xbox 360 day one, I can easily see them shafting gamers simply to make that extra dollar. They pretty much gave up on gamers after 2009 this gen relying on only halo, fable, forza, and gears with one or two one offs like Alan wake and instead tried to rely on xbla games...

 

[torbor]

The thing is, as a Microsoft fan and purchaser of both Xbox and Xbox 360 day one, I can easily see them shafting gamers simply to make that extra dollar. They pretty much gave up on gamers after 2009 this gen relying on only halo, fable, forza, and gears with one or two one offs like Alan wake and instead tried to rely on xbla games...

Actually they relied on third party too and time exclusive dlc. And this was to attract "core gamers".

 

[patsu]

Personally, I think people may be jumping the gun. The rumors could refer to a new all-in-one cable settop box or, in another extreme, a closed box PC. Microsoft is not unreasonable or stupid, but we lack the context to interpret these info.

At the same time, Sony may also want to reconcile its position. e.g., with ideas on b/c add-on, next gen PSEye, Gikai, Vita, etc. since they have been more fragmented. That's why we continue to see "loose patents/ideas" along the way. e.g., http://www.complex.com/video-games/...and-backwards-compatibility-add-on-discovered

It does not mean Sony will commercialize every patent either.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Actually they relied on third party too and time exclusive dlc. And this was to attract "core gamers".

pretty obvious I was talking about exclusives.

 

[Grall]

Yeah, disappointed.

Unfortunately, that tends to happen when one becomes emotionally invested into something. Nothing to be ashamed of. Been there, done that, you know?

There's more of these articles floating around the web by the way:
http://www.oxm.co.uk/49319/dragon-a...ont-be-as-obvious-a-leap-as-xbox-to-xbox-360/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...oles_Not_Feasibly_Anymore_Head_of_Nvidia.html

...To mention two recent ones.

And that Yukon pdf did have a lot of things that Microsoft is working on.

I don't believe there's been any confirmation of that publically, other than that it's expected that MS will update kinect for next gen of consoles, and so on.

 

[RobertR1]

We will see how it plays out but I quite recall how the 360 was merely a Xbox 1.5 and when the PS3 would come out, it'd blow it away and never look back.

Looking forward to many more months of the same.

 

[kots]

We will see how it plays out but I quite recall how the 360 was merely a Xbox 1.5 and when the PS3 would come out, it'd blow it away and never look back.
Looking forward to many more months of the same.

But if Microsoft wants to put out a media player/ Apps box with Kinect included in every unit , it's obvious that the rest of the hardware will suffer . Unless they eat the cost , but how possible is this ?

 

[torbor]

But if Microsoft wants to put out a media player/ Apps box with Kinect included in every unit , it's obvious that the rest of the hardware will suffer . Unless they eat the cost , but how possible is this ?

First its questionable that they will do that and then Microsoft is the only one that could subsidize their console with profits of like 4 billions per quarter while sony was regarded as a junk company by finch...

 

[expletive]

Unfortunately, that tends to happen when one becomes emotionally invested into something. Nothing to be ashamed of. Been there, done that, you know?

There's more of these articles floating around the web by the way:
http://www.oxm.co.uk/49319/dragon-a...ont-be-as-obvious-a-leap-as-xbox-to-xbox-360/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...oles_Not_Feasibly_Anymore_Head_of_Nvidia.html

...To mention two recent ones.

The OXM article's title is a bit misleading as I dont think the interviewee ever really cites hardware as the source for the more incremental improvement this generation. Seems to be leading more towards budgets and the known quantities (development team size, budgets, asset creation, etc) going into this gen rather than last.

As for the nvidia article, "...said the CEO who has zero next gen console revenue." Is all I can really say.

 

[kots]

First its questionable that they will do that and then Microsoft is the only one that could subsidize their console with profits of like 4 billions per quarter while sony was regarded as a junk company by finch...

Of course ,could happen, i'm just talking about the rumors , i don't have any insider infos like half the members seem to have ....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Of course ,could happen, i'm just talking about the rumors , i don't have any insider infos like half the members seem to have ....

You ought to get some. They're great!

 

[bkilian]

"At this time we cannot confirm the make-up of the Durango graphics hardware - rumours have circulated for quite some time that it is some way behind Orbis, but equally there has been the suggestion that the GPU itself is supplemented by additional task-specific hardware. We could not confirm this, but an ex-Microsoft staffer with a prior relationship with the Xbox team says that two of these modules are graphics-related."

Yeah, disappointed. Read the bold parts. And that Yukon pdf did have a lot of things that Microsoft is working on.

Yeah, that was me, and it was misquoted, as well as my post being vague and tongue in cheek.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Is it just me, or are these next-gen systems starting to sound a little ho-hum? If you want me to buy something for around $300-400 CAD I don't want to hear months away from it even being announced that at best its going to match a mid-range PC! Today's' customer has way too many things competing for their attention in the computer and entertainment leisure space; and let's face it, Microsoft and Sony don't have the creative ability or visionary leadership to do what Nintendo did with the Wii! You need to come out strong with something that turns heads, and in Microsoft and Sony's case that means focusing on what their good at... big budget, visually stunning AAA games! Just look at all their biggest IPs and the structure of the development teams they have, especially in Sony's case as they have a large number of development studios in house. My hope is that I am just a little down on the hardware and not thinking clearly for the future, but from what I see it looks like the have Apple / Nintendo fever and in their delirious states are starting to loose focus on what actually made them who they are today... games!

 

[nightshade]

Having new systems would mean the base layer for rendering tech is lifted (and it'll be a good jump) which in turn would also benefit PC gaming. I say this because at this point no matter how "insane" the gap between the PC and console version of multiplatform games are, in reality all they are doing is just running current gen games with a higher IQ. Hence the argument about "it's nothing better than a mid range PC today" is moot and lacks any proper weight, even more considering a closed system works very different compared to a PC and performance may vary by a large margin even if the core components are mostly similar.

 

[Bagel seed]

Yeah, that was me, and it was misquoted, as well as my post being vague and tongue in cheek.

You need to start using a signature, something to the effect of "Don't believe my lies"

Is it just me, or are these next-gen systems starting to sound a little ho-hum? If you want me to buy something for around $300-400 CAD I don't want to hear months away from it even being announced that at best its going to match a mid-range PC!

Don't worry, we're bound to see some quality of games not seen yet on PC especially after the first year or so by which devs have fine tuned their engines more.

 

[DJ12]

The next PS and xbox will both punch above Their relative weights against similarly spec's PCs. Sure if your going to spend £1000s on a PC it will be much better but nothing you'll be able to Buy for the same as you'll get an xbox or PS for will match then for a good couple of years

 

[(((interference)))]

We will see how it plays out but I quite recall how the 360 was merely a Xbox 1.5 and when the PS3 would come out, it'd blow it away and never look back.

Looking forward to many more months of the same.

It's not the same as last gen since both machines are launching at the same time, and there's no rumours of components as exotic and high end as Cell was back then for fanboys to get overexcited about.

Both GPUs are on the same architecture (GCN/GCN2) and from the same vendor.
The memory setup of each will have their own strengths and weaknesses but will largely be about even, The CPUs are now basically the same too.

I don't think there's any amount of special sauce in Durango that can bridge a 6 CU and 600 GFLOP gap.

Not forgetting that Orbis also has its own special sauce in the form of the GPGPU compute unit and other DSPs mentioned by vgleaks (audio DSP, video encoder/decoder, zlib decompressor etc)

Is anyone aware of any feasible customisations (ie hw raytracers are unlikely) they could do to the GPU or extra blocks they could add that would even out the difference in FLOPS?

 

[Proelite]

It's not the same as last gen since both machines are launching at the same time, and there's no rumours of components as exotic and high end as Cell was back then for fanboys to get overexcited about.

Both GPUs are on the same architecture (GCN/GCN2) and from the same vendor.
The memory setup of each will have their own strengths and weaknesses but will largely be about even, The CPUs are now basically the same too.

I don't think there's any amount of special sauce in Durango that can bridge a 6 CU and 600 GFLOP gap.

Not forgetting that Orbis also has its own special sauce in the form of the GPGPU compute unit and other DSPs mentioned by vgleaks (audio DSP, video encoder/decoder, zlib decompressor etc)

Is anyone aware of any feasible customisations (ie hw raytracers are unlikely) they could do to the GPU or extra blocks they could add that would even out the difference in FLOPS?

That's assuming that they have the same type of CUs, and the same "type" of flops.

Until devs start to know the two hardware intimately, we'll only be making paper comparisons.

I mean if you're willing to bet on Orbis being the more performant console then go ahead, it isn't going to hurt anybody, perhaps your own pride when the opposite happens in the real world by chance.