News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Shifty Geezer]

^^^

The negativity already materialized, it's allover the internet.
Whether it will translate into financial losses is yet to be seen but the negativity it's there nonetheless.

But it doesn't matter!

I saw the negativity surrounding the WiiU months before its resale and even though I could not quantify it in "financial losses" as you say that negativity translated directly into poor sales and losses after the release.

Wii U's sales are due to the product and the pricing, and not the negativity. The negativity just showed internet goers weren't enamoured with the product. There was plenty of negativity towards Wii from some quarters too.

I am not making forecasts here, I am just saying that one should not ignore negativity nor allow negative rumors and speculation spread.

Why?! You've ignored my question above. I asked if you think after the product is revealed and launched, anyone will base their purchasing decision not on the final product but on the rumours and negativity that preceded it. In the case of a niche or new product, like Ouya, say, where you need to drum up interest prior to release to ensure people are listening when you make your announcement, then yes, you have to ensure you don't turn people off. But in the case of Durango, where it's not going to ignored on release because it's one of only two players in the market and the XB brand is every bit as strong as the rival, it'll get complete coverage and exposure. So as MS don't have to worry about being ignored, there will be no consequences to negative noises prior to their reveal.

Negativity is not always quantifiable nor it's "material" but it can still hurt you very materially.

In a way you haven't explained. If people's buying habits aren't changed, then it is no problem. And people's buying habits will have to favour pre-release rumours over final specs for that to be true in Durango's case, which is unrealistic.

 

[Pozer]

He's not being rude. You're being obtuse and failing to engage correctly in the discussion. You made an assertion and as such, it's your responsibility to support that assertion when challenged. If you can't answer the original question, just admit it! When Gradthawn asks, "do you have a costing for Durango?" your response should be, "no, but I'm looking at MS's pricing history using such-and-such BOMs and seeing a pattern of pricing well beyond BOM." Or whatever. But all your doing at the moment is repeating yourself, ignoring the discussion, and generating a lot of hot air. It's a straight forward yes-or-no question you've been asked. Either provide the links that support your costing for Durango, or accept you don't have any.

All these companies are notorious for pricing well beyond BOM. Accessories are historically bad about this, anyone who's ever bought a Sony memory card can understand. Nintendo isn't as bad, but they usually price their consoles higher for the silicon delivered.

I would guess pricing between 720 and ps4 will be about equal. Both companies have been consistent about keeping pricing parity. Sony is not in a position for a price war, especially floating 8GB GDDR. MS has not shown interesting in the past of heavily discounting consoles to increase sales. At most I expect a $50 difference. With Xbox1 they had to wage a price war and they paid heavily for it.

 

[Averagejoe]

cause they are a company that wants to make money ?


cause it was and still is the best console online system out... oh and they are a company that wants to make money

again a company that wants to make money ?






Sony couldn't sell their online service per month because it was and still is a joke. But it hasn't stoped them for trying with their psn + service.

The point of a company is to profit .

A ipad doesn't cost $500 and 32 gigs of flash ram doesn't add a $100 worth of cost to an ipad. Adding a lte modem doesn't add the same amount of money either. But apple wants to make money and thus will charge the higher prices for it.


That's the way it works in this world. I don't see the problem with Durango costing MS $300 in bom costs but you still have to pay for R&D and employees need money.

I don't see a problem with either system retailing for $500 . now the problem for either of these companies come in when one is priced to high vs the other. That happened with the ps3. Lack of games , poor online and being a year late all while costing $100-$300 more than the xbox 360 was not good for them.

Durango could have problems if its $500 and the ps4 is $400 then again if the ps4 is $500 also I don't see the problem.

Exactly money that may be good for you,but to the normal consumer it isn't.

Live and PSN are basically the same,trying to pretend that Live is worth $60 dollars because a function or 2 is silly,live was also $50 on the xbox was nothing but voice chat and friend list.

There are have been article questioning why MS keep charging,and there are even more games on dedicated servers on PSN than on xbox live,which is 99% P2P,not only that Live also has way more adds than PSN,which is silly since you get charge a premium for it and should not be summit to so many adds.

You get charge for been allow to connect to other players using your own internet,platform and games you already pay for.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/PCWorld/story?id=6237255#.UX5-ZMoz_Ww

http://geekrevolt.com/2012/11/25/lets-be-honest-xbox-live-gold-has-become-a-huge-ripoff/

Many more like this on the net.

Sony did not charge because they don't believe on charging for it,and PSN+ does have value unlike xbox live,on PSN+ you pay a yearly fee and get access to many different games,and get huge discounts,the more you buy the more you save,PSN+ works like Cotsco or Sams were you get a membership and get discounts but on PS3 you also get games.

No the Ipad flash doesn't cost $100 more,is the reason i don't own one,they are over price,i have a Galaxy 2 phone and extended my storage for $22 dollars added a micro SD 32GB,i like Android tablets better,like i already say on another post i don't like to be rip off.

Yeah like the xbox 360 release with 100 games,the best game on the console was and over price version of COD2 which was also on PC by the 360 hit the market cheaper and with good graphics to.

All consoles release with few games,how many had the original xbox vs the PS2.?

The xbox got it even worst.

But wait the PS3 been from $100 to $300 was justify quite easy,the $600 PS3 was superior hardware to the 360 premium in almost every single way.

Blu-ray alone $1,000 stand alone.
HDMI the 360 did not had it.
20GB HDD the PS3 one was 60GB.
Wifi build in,on 360 $99 dollars
Build in media card reader non available on 360.
7.1 sound not available on 360

and many other things..

I didn't even get a PS Vita for the over priced memory cards,i don't like been rip off it doesn't matter who does it.

 

[Averagejoe]

Why does apple charge $300 for 16GB of ram, when I can buy the same amount from Crucial for $130? Why does a DVD cost ~$20 when the BOM is less than a dollar? Why do used video games cost $50 when gamestop only paid you $15 for it?

It's simple:
a) There's more to a product than it's BOM
b) That's what people are willing to pay.

More than 30 million people appear to consider $60 a year for live worthwhile. If it was half that price, would it double the number of people willing to pay for it? Probably not (especially since that would equal pretty much all the Live users in total)
Millions and millions of people daily are willing to pay $5 for a 20c cup of coffee at Starbucks. Does the fact that Dunkin Donuts offers coffee for $1 make all their customers suddenly jump over? No. People don't work that way.

If you want to understand why people behave the way they do, and why companies price things they way they do, you should look into some behavioral economics. I'm partial to Dan Ariely. You can find his talks on TED.com, and his books are available everywhere.

Because they like to rip off people,were ever you support that or not is up to you,Apple has always over price their products,and repair services are just as expensive.

Because you are not paying for the blank DVD but the content inside it.

Because gamestop is a stinking rip off,were people who don't value their money go trow desperately their games,gamestop is basically a monopoly,when it was Babages and EB store the 2 competed for you,and one gave more than the other,and there were offers and stuff like that,once the merge took place is rip off time baby..That is why monopolies are bad didn't you know it.?


From the total number of xbox live user only about half are gold users,the rest are silver MS just bunch them together to make the numbers seem bigger this is a fact,it was let loose by some one inside MS.

They claim to have now 46 millions,from those like 23 are gold the rest silver.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-02-half-of-xbox-live-subs-are-gold

This is old news,MS has never been open about live actual numbers.

And there is a difference between wanting to play and having to play,if you don't pay you miss a complete portion of your games.

Coffee is not free and there is a king of coffee that is actually worth 35 dollars a pound or more,not all coffees are created equal,i know i live on a country were coffee is home grown.

 

[expletive]

Why does apple charge $300 for 16GB of ram, when I can buy the same amount from Crucial for $130? Why does a DVD cost ~$20 when the BOM is less than a dollar? Why do used video games cost $50 when gamestop only paid you $15 for it?

It's simple:
a) There's more to a product than it's BOM
b) That's what people are willing to pay.

More than 30 million people appear to consider $60 a year for live worthwhile. If it was half that price, would it double the number of people willing to pay for it? Probably not (especially since that would equal pretty much all the Live users in total)

To that end, where does MS account for the numerous software rendering patents that people have dug up throughout this conversation in the BOM of the Xbox?

From my perspective, it seems MS is spending infinitely more R&D on the software side of this while Sony seems to have focused its resources on hardware. Am I wrong or is Sony also as active in software rendering R&D?

I understand that MS has the burden of supporting a graphics API across all of windows as well but at least a portion of these patents have related directly to closed-box systems which would be primarily usable in the Xbox.

 

[Averagejoe]

He's not being rude. You're being obtuse and failing to engage correctly in the discussion. You made an assertion and as such, it's your responsibility to support that assertion when challenged. If you can't answer the original question, just admit it! When Gradthawn asks, "do you have a costing for Durango?" your response should be, "no, but I'm looking at MS's pricing history using such-and-such BOMs and seeing a pattern of pricing well beyond BOM." Or whatever. But all your doing at the moment is repeating yourself, ignoring the discussion, and generating a lot of hot air. It's a straight forward yes-or-no question you've been asked. Either provide the links that support your costing for Durango, or accept you don't have any.

I already admit i did not had any against Gradthawn.

Like you say i am looking at pricing history,and what the 720 is say o have inside,is not that hard to get to conclusions,is like getting a Hyundai Accent for the price of Honda Civic,when last gen we got a Honda Accord for the price of an Accent.

 

[dobwal]

I already admit i did not had any against Gradthawn.

Like you say i am looking at pricing history,and what the 720 is say o have inside,is not that hard to get to conclusions,is like getting a Hyundai Accent for the price of Honda Civic,when last gen we got a Honda Accord for the price of an Accent.

You remember last generation console hardware specs more fondly then I do. The RSX and Xenos, from a raw spec point of view, seem to fall more in line with Nvidia and ATI midrange offering versus their highend offering at the time.

 

[Nisaaru]

All these companies are notorious for pricing well beyond BOM. Accessories are historically bad about this, anyone who's ever bought a Sony memory card can understand. Nintendo isn't as bad, but they usually price their consoles higher for the silicon delivered.

If a console was heavily overpriced it was the Wii. After getting a Gamecube at 99$ paying 249$ for a slightly higher clocked HW in a different casing and new controller 4 years later was unconceivable to me.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You remember last generation console hardware specs more fondly then I do. The RSX and Xenos, from a raw spec point of view, seem to fall more in line with Nvidia and ATI midrange offering versus their highend offering at the time.

perhaps you could just list the lineup of cards that were clearly superior at launch.

 

[Gubbi]

perhaps you could just list the lineup of cards that were clearly superior at launch.

At 360's launch: none. At PS3's international launch: 8800 GTX

Cheers

 

[Pozer]

perhaps you could just list the lineup of cards that were clearly superior at launch.

Side note, I've always contended Geforce2 GTS was superior to Playstation2 at launch. Launch ps2 games looked noticeably inferior to PC games at the time. Over time you could say the ps2 eclipsed that card.

 

[dobwal]

perhaps you could just list the lineup of cards that were clearly superior at launch.

Anything above a 7600 had more rops and bandwidth than a RSX. The same goes for Xenos with similar number of ROPs and bandwidth of the 1650. Those two aspect alone would make Xenos and RSX seem really gimped when strictly looking at these gpus as standard PC parts.

The PS3 graphics performance benefited from the presence of Cell while the 360 benefited from its edram/US arch while both benefited from a development enviroment where 10 of millions of dollars were devoted to get the most out of individual AAA franchises.

Yet here we are in the present looking at the PS4 and Xbox 720 while we peel away the non standard hardware/configurations of these consoles, the level of investment thats going to be poured into console development and predominantly judge them as if they are standard PC fare.

So when I look back at Xenos and RSX and look at them as standard gpu kind of way, I see limited bandwidth that would kill any highend 2005-2006 gpu's performance.

 

[Cjail]

Why?! You've ignored my question above. I asked if you think after the product is revealed and launched, anyone will base their purchasing decision not on the final product but on the rumours and negativity that preceded it. In the case of a niche or new product, like Ouya, say, where you need to drum up interest prior to release to ensure people are listening when you make your announcement, then yes, you have to ensure you don't turn people off. But in the case of Durango, where it's not going to ignored on release because it's one of only two players in the market and the XB brand is every bit as strong as the rival, it'll get complete coverage and exposure. So as MS don't have to worry about being ignored, there will be no consequences to negative noises prior to their reveal.

I haven't ignored your question.
You want me to predict people reactions but people will make up their mind about Xbox based on whatever they choose, be it logical or illogical, objective or subjective, official or rumor.
I said I don't make forecasts.

IMO the negativity around the Xbox is not logical and it's premature but still it's there (whether I/we like it or not) and I just think MS could have addressed it sooner.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I haven't ignored your question.

So in your opinion, you think there will be people who will ignore MS's public reveals and marketing and instead make their purchasing decision based on months-old rumours? Yes or no answer.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

^^^

The negativity already materialized, it's allover the internet.
Whether it will translate into financial losses is yet to be seen but the negativity it's there nonetheless.

I saw the negativity surrounding the WiiU months before its resale and even though I could not quantify it in "financial losses" as you say that negativity translated directly into poor sales and losses after the release.

I am not making forecasts here, I am just saying that one should not ignore negativity nor allow negative rumors and speculation spread.
Negativity is not always quantifiable nor it's "material" but it can still hurt you very materially.

BTW - the iPad had far FAR more negativity over the internet than anything Durango is getting at the moment. And that was even after it was officially unveiled.

How did that play out? Wii? Kinect? X360 versus PS3?

And, of course, for all the times that the internet failed to match reality, there are times when it does. Wii-U?

The internet does not predict how a product will do. You can just as easily toss a coin, call heads or tails, and have an equal chance of predicting things as you would if you just followed the internet prior to a product launching.

Thinking that what is said on the internet will equate to how well a product will do. Yeah, just go ahead and flip a coin.

All the negativity and angst on the internet doesn't mean a damn thing. All that matters is whether or not Microsoft releases something that people want to buy. If Apple had listened to the internet, the iPad would never have been released.

Regards,
SB

 

[dagamer]

BTW - the iPad had far FAR more negativity over the internet than anything Durango is getting at the moment. And that was even after it was officially unveiled.

How did that play out? Wii? Kinect? X360 versus PS3?

And, of course, for all the times that the internet failed to match reality, there are times when it does. Wii-U?

The internet does not predict how a product will do. You can just as easily toss a coin, call heads or tails, and have an equal chance of predicting things as you would if you just followed the internet prior to a product launching.

Thinking that what is said on the internet will equate to how well a product will do. Yeah, just go ahead and flip a coin.

All the negativity and angst on the internet doesn't mean a damn thing. All that matters is whether or not Microsoft releases something that people want to buy. If Apple had listened to the internet, the iPad would never have been released.

Regards,
SB

We forget, the Internet praised the Vita when it launched, definitely when it was announced (this was back when the 3DS had no games). Oh how times have changed.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The internet does not predict how a product will do. You can just as easily toss a coin, call heads or tails, and have an equal chance of predicting things as you would if you just followed the internet prior to a product launching.

Well, that depends on how much you can communicate after internet noise. Some products or services could be killed prior to release if the press and information outlets lose interest in covering said products/services. eg. Ben English decides to release a new console. He goes to Kickstarter and contacts gaming and tech sites, who get a negative picture of the product from rumours. They decide its of no interest and no longer cover the product. When Mr. English finally is ready to reveal, and the final product is awesome, no-one is listening and the product is killed by pre-announcement rumours.

Of course, that has no baring on Durango which is going to merit full coverage. I think

 

[Cjail]

So in your opinion, you think there will be people who will ignore MS's public reveals and marketing and instead make their purchasing decision based on months-old rumours? Yes or no answer.

I think people should just stick to what MS says and shows and not believe in rumors.
The various leaks form VGleaks and DF are more worthy of consideration IMO but are something different.

 

[dobwal]

I think people should just stick to what MS says and shows and not believe in rumors.
The various leaks form VGleaks and DF are more worthy of consideration IMO but are something different.

There is utility in seeing how planned features are accepted by certain segments of your userbase. Better to see the noise generated now than get caught off guard after a major showcase of your tech.

Plus it gives us ample opportunity to discuss features and realities that in and of themselves wouldn't warrant much discussion. I don't think "always on" would be such hot topic if it weren't perceived as a possible reality on Durango.

 

[bkilian]

Because you are not paying for the blank DVD but the content inside it.

Exactly. Thank you. When you buy a console, you're not just paying for a console, but all of the content it gives you access to.