Microsoft E3 2009 Keynote Thread

[liolio]

Slightly off current topic, but does anyone know what happened to Rare at E3?, was really hoping for some Kameo2 ,VP or Banjo announcement, all I've been able to find is almost non reported xbla port of perfect dark being released this winter and I'm fed up of shooters

I would tend to think that Rare is working like crazy on some natal projects

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They show that they can do motion capture better than the movie industry can.

Have they shown this? They've shown tracking, but anything pinpoint accurate? I'm not saying they haven't got it, but I didn't see anything that was anout accuracy, it was more broad strokes. eg. The paint splodging looked great, but how well did the motions of the character follow the player? That's impossible to tell due to the choice of demo. As games don't need movie-level quality, and the tech would be worth a fortune in the movie and other industries, I'm very skepticle that Natal is offering anything of that quality. The 3D scanning is superb, and this tech has LOADS of applications! Cameras with 3D capture could add accurate DOF blur as a post effect, and 3D models from images would be much easier to scan. However, I want to know more before I pass judgement. "Too good to be true" invariably is.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I'm starting to think what MS really is going for is a beachhead in the smart home war. The feature set really isn't game oriented.

Exactly.

Which is the entire reason why they entered the console front to begin with. Sure, the application might have some game functions but I think that's a secondary goal.

It's to make the 360 (albeit probably just as a test bed for the next generation console) an interactive consumer electronic device.

There are lots of people who never figured out how to get their VCR to stop flashing 12:00. The people who are afraid of the 360 (or PS3) controller, likely don't know how to use their vast array of tv remotes either.

This should be a 'cool', 'high-tech', 'sci-fi' feature to appeal to the hardcore base of the 360, and it should appear as a 'this makes things much easier to do' feature for those with remote or controller anxiety.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Have they shown this?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic considering he began his message 'I don't believe in natal' and ended it with something similar about how it isn't possible.

 

[obonicus]

No more Xbox Originals...



http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/990/990070p1.html

What a bummer. With 462 backward compatible Xbox games available they only managed 29 Xbox Original titles for download(not including the 1 yet to be announced)? That's sad. I think had they actually added achievements they probably would have gotten a more favorable response. I know I might have actually purchased a few.

Tommy McClain

That probably ends all hope of seeing updates to BC. So no Oddworld's Strange's Wrath on 360. Hope you held onto your old console.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Exactly.

Which is the entire reason why they entered the console front to begin with. Sure, the application might have some game functions but I think that's a secondary goal.

It's to make the 360 (albeit probably just as a test bed for the next generation console) an interactive consumer electronic device.

There are lots of people who never figured out how to get their VCR to stop flashing 12:00. The people who are afraid of the 360 (or PS3) controller, likely don't know how to use their vast array of tv remotes either.

This should be a 'cool', 'high-tech', 'sci-fi' feature to appeal to the hardcore base of the 360, and it should appear as a 'this makes things much easier to do' feature for those with remote or controller anxiety.

Agreed, this thing is not really meant for games, nor are we going to see any really compelling game content made for it.

What it IS meant for is the absolute cool-factor, controlling your device via hand gestures from the couch, or with voice. that's where it seems MS has hit the nail on the head. The integration into the dashboard is a stroke of genius (the type that looks totally obvious in hind sight).

This is the kind of thing that once you experience it, it's going to feel like it should be a part of every single CE device, and probably in 10 years it will be. I see lots of potential here as word of mouth spreads, this is the sort of thing that can really change the perception of a console, it will make the 360 appear so much more advanced than the competition.

I'm pretty excited to try it out, but already wishing it was universal so I could hook it up to the PS3 too...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm not entirely sure it's not only motion but also voice control in one unit. Likewise it removes the need for a headset for voice communications

This opens up many possibilities for control and interaction with games. At the very least it allows Wiimote type gaming. Except with no wires and no battery charging.

It can also work as an enhancement when used with a regular controller.

As an example, there have been times when I've been playing an FPS, 3rd person shooter, or racing game and have actually tilted my head from side to side to try to see around a corner. Not on purpose but many times unconciously since I know it would do absolutely nothing.

Now imagine if using the standard controller in addition to NATAL, when you move your head from side to side it changes your view appropriately. Allowing you to look around a corner. Or over an obstacle.

There's nothing to say it has to be the ONLY form of control in a game it could also be an additional form of control. Both motion based and voice control.

And with the way the microphones are setup, it allows multiple voice control in that multiple people could be issuing multiple voice commands simultaneously.

Regards,
SB

 

[thatdude90210]

Another possibility for FPS's is a simple wireless gun controller with just a couple of buttons, one for trigger and another to change weapons. They can bundle it with a game, like Nintendo does so well

You can tilt your knees (sitting) to move side ways, and push your foot forward and back to move back and forth. And tilt the gun to turn. It really depends on how precise the camera in Natal is though.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Another possibility for FPS's is a simple wireless gun controller with just a couple of buttons, one for trigger and another to change weapons. They can bundle it with a game, like Nintendo does so well

Expect the 3D image track doen't seem like it'll be accurate enough. They'd need motion control within the peripheral. Would do better to add a motion remote like the others, but without PS3's big coloured blob.

 

[Tap In]

Gamespot says MS had best conference

 

[dobwal]

Depends on who you're attempting to lure into a sale.

Someone unfamiliar with games/gaming would demo the thing and if they were impressed enough to buy, head to the store and pickup a xb360 and a cool looking game, foolishly thinking they have just purchased the experience they just demoed.

It needs to be a distinct brand for people to get it.

Heck, you didn't see Nintendo tack this onto a gc as an add-on and expect success. They technically did this, but they were smart enough to recognize that this interface is different enough to be a stand alone brand and platform. So much so, that they gave it a very unconventional name that is very non-game and not intimidating at all.


MS doesn't need to go that far with it, but they should certainly look to what made the Wii successful and attempt to emulate. They did a VERY good job of learning from ps2 and mistakes they made with xbox ... I think (hope) they will be smart about Natal as well.

Exposing it the the 360 crowd even on a limited scale will allow for a more reliable and robust iteration if released as a standard on the next Xbox. You only have to look at Live as an example.

 

[mrcorbo]

Apparently, Natal is precise enough to control Burnout Paradise well enough. I would imagine if lag and motion tracking were that big of a problem that you wouldn't be able to control a game of this type , but I've heard three independant sources reveal that it actually works well, depite the game not being designed for it and (let's face it) how goofy it actually is.

Also, for applications of a Milo-type project; have any of you seen any of the pseudo-interactive children's programming they have aimed at pre-schoolers? They will ask the chiild to say an answer, repeat a word or select the correct object from a group and then pause as if they were waiting for an answer before continuing on as if the child selected the correct one. I see a tremendous opportunity to develop software that remakes this as a real interactive experience where the system can actually interperet the response of the child and guide them towards the correct responses when they struggle.

I'm amazed at how people are choosing to instantly focus on what these technologies are not rather than what they are and what they could be.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Apparently, Natal is precise enough to control Burnout Paradise well enough.

However this isn't a test of precision. The motion required is large displacement of the hands that'd be easy to track with a standard camera if the contrast if high enough.

I'm amazed at how people are choosing to instantly focus on what these technologies are not rather than what they are and what they could be.

Well, we are a tech board! Plussome of us have already discussed much of the potential with other devices, like PSEye. I was a huge believer in EyeToy's potential. Back in the day, the inclusion of EyeToy2 as standard with every PS3 was a matter of some enthusiasm with me, and I preached all the lovely possibilities. Here we are, years later, with very little to show for it. A lot on offer in these Natal demos has been possible for years, maybe not to the same scale, but certainly to a good standard. It appears to have awakened the interst in some parties who missed the EyeToy scene, which is good. The more momentum here, the better! To some of us though, it's not terribly new, save a few aspects like Molyneux's choice of interactions.

 

[Scott_Arm]

However this isn't a test of precision. The motion required is large displacement of the hands that'd be easy to track with a standard camera if the contrast if high enough.

Well, the people did mention it was common to over steer and you only needed to make small turning gestures to make slow or gradual turns. Whether that means it can pick up movements in the range of centimeters, I don't know. The PS3 method does have a much smaller granularity in measurement.

 

[AzBat]

Looks like the Zune integration is getting its message out to consumers. I received the link below as part of my email subscription to Zune news.

http://zune.net/en-us/discover/xbox360/default.htm

 

[Arwin]

However this isn't a test of precision. The motion required is large displacement of the hands that'd be easy to track with a standard camera if the contrast if high enough.

It's also interesting that they used Burnout 1. I think that right now they don't have analog accelleration / braking going on.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

However this isn't a test of precision. The motion required is large displacement of the hands that'd be easy to track with a standard camera if the contrast if high enough.

Well, we are a tech board! Plussome of us have already discussed much of the potential with other devices, like PSEye. I was a huge believer in EyeToy's potential. Back in the day, the inclusion of EyeToy2 as standard with every PS3 was a matter of some enthusiasm with me, and I preached all the lovely possibilities. Here we are, years later, with very little to show for it. A lot on offer in these Natal demos has been possible for years, maybe not to the same scale, but certainly to a good standard. It appears to have awakened the interst in some parties who missed the EyeToy scene, which is good. The more momentum here, the better! To some of us though, it's not terribly new, save a few aspects like Molyneux's choice of interactions.

Actually I never saw the same potential in the Eye Toy mostly due to it being purely 2D with very vague (to me) controls. Thus I never really got all that excited about it for the most part although I saw potential for some types of games/activities.

Regards,
SB

 

[arhra]

It's also interesting that they used Burnout 1. I think that right now they don't have analog accelleration / braking going on.

Er...

Standing in front of a television with Burnout Paradise on it

 

[AzBat]

Here are some more little things Microsoft announced...

Music Games Stores
Download the newest hits or the most memorable classics with new, dedicated stores for the Rock Band (MTV Games), Guitar Hero (Activision), and Lips (Microsoft Game Studios) franchises. These stores will let you explore and sample new songs and game add-ons for these popular music game franchises in one place, without having to launch the full games.

The image I saw on the Xbox itself showed these stores in the Music Marketplace. Funny thing is they haven't really said anything about adding a Marketplace menu item to the dashboard. Maybe this where Last.fm will be going as well?

User Ratings: We're adding a five-star rating system that lets you easily rate any content in the Games Marketplace. Now you'll be able to show your support for your favorite games and Game Add-ons on Xbox LIVE and also quickly organize by user rating to find the community's favorite content. This has been one of your most-requested features, and we're very happy to bring it to you this summer.

Can't wait for this, totally necessary for finding good Community Games. According to the images I've seen on the Xbox, they're replacing the "Most Popular" filter option with "Top Downloaded" AND "Top Rated".

Tommy McClain

 

[Brad Grenz]

Well, the people did mention it was common to over steer and you only needed to make small turning gestures to make slow or gradual turns. Whether that means it can pick up movements in the range of centimeters, I don't know. The PS3 method does have a much smaller granularity in measurement.

It probably means people got tired trying to hold their arms out strait in front of them for any period of time. Burnout shows this is feasible, not that it is desirable.