NPD November 2008

[obonicus]

Yeah because PR rocks at telling the truth! I'm simply stating that during my visit there was no visibility to this magic bundle that pushed so much hardware and software in such little time. But hey, PR is there to make people feel better so by all means, have at it. On that note, congrats to Bethsada on 4.7million copies of Fallout 3 sold.

Since you're clinging to the Bethesda thing, and since it's a good example:

Approximately 4.7 million units of Fallout 3 were shipped worldwide last week for the Xbox 360®video game and entertainment system from Microsoft, PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, and Games for Windows® representing retail sales in excess of $300 million.

Emphasis mine, naturally. See the difference there? Bethesda said something misleading, but they never actually lied. PR is always untrustworthy, but when do they ever blatantly lie? If a press release says Motorstorm sold 1 million, then it did, your experience in London notwithstanding. This isn't a press release, and it is possible that Denny said sold when he meant shipped, but if you're accusing someone of lying, bring the evidence.

 

[Cryect]

I know that some tend to disagree that it has an impact related to the videogames industry , but I really don’t believe that when people (they even don’t need to be americans) are faced with increasing prices that they are likely to spend (how much does the PS3 cost in the US ?) 399$ ?

I recommend you consider prices have just decreased for wholesale prices 4 months in a row with a 2.2% decrease for November not increase (last month was the largest one month decrease ever of 2.8%). This isn't just in the US prices decreasing but in general in other countries without traditional high inflation. Global depressions lead to deflation in the short term at least. Inflation would occur though when one market strengthens versus another (example the yen's continual value increase especially after today will lead to inflation for electronics). The strong yen will continue to hurt Sony but not due to increasing prices of other products (and Nintendo as well but they will make a profit anyways).

 

[Rangers]

Since you're clinging to the Bethesda thing, and since it's a good example:



Emphasis mine, naturally. See the difference there? Bethesda said something misleading, but they never actually lied. PR is always untrustworthy, but when do they ever blatantly lie? If a press release says Motorstorm sold 1 million, then it did, your experience in London notwithstanding. This isn't a press release, and it is possible that Denny said sold when he meant shipped, but if you're accusing someone of lying, bring the evidence.

Motorstorm or Motorstorm 2? Somebody earlier in this thread said Sony later clarified they meant M1 with the 1m sales.

I dont recall Motorstorm 2's first NPD, but I believe it might have been 82k. If you think the sales are in Europe, you'd have to explain how it charted terribly there.

The best way I've heard it explained is that if M2 sold 1m based on the way it charted, then almost literally every game sells 1m.

And Sony/MS/Nintendo almost always mean shipped when they say sold. It's "sold to retail" to them.

 

[catisfit]

Per Week, Oct (4 week) -> Nov (4 week) (% change)
Nintendo DS          122.75K -> 392.5k  (+320%)
Nintendo Wii         200.75K -> 510.0k  (+254%)
Xbox 360              92.75K -> 209.0k  (+225%)
PlayStation Portable  48.25K -> 105.25k (+218%)
PlayStation 3         47.5k  ->  94.5k  (+199%)
PlayStation 2         34.0K  ->  51.5k  (+151%)

LTD
Wii 15,390,000 (45.4%, +1.8%)
360 12,449,200 (36.7%, -1.2%)
PS3  6,062,400 (17.9%, -0.6%)

YTD
Wii 8,021,000 (56.7%, +1.7%)
360 3,295,200 (23.3%, +0.7%)
PS3 2,819,400 (19.9%, -2.5%)

 

[obonicus]

Motorstorm or Motorstorm 2? Somebody earlier in this thread said Sony later clarified they meant M1 with the 1m sales.

Is there a Motorstorm 2? There's Motorstorm: Pacific Rift, which is the sequel to Motorstorm, which is what Denny referred to.

I dont recall Motorstorm 2's first NPD, but I believe it might have been 82k. If you think the sales are in Europe, you'd have to explain how it charted terribly there.

I thought the numbers were in October's thread, but apparently not. And I don't have a theory for it; I just think that if we're going to start calling people liars we go by more than gut feeling.

The best way I've heard it explained is that if M2 sold 1m based on the way it charted, then almost literally every game sells 1m.

Not really hard evidence, though, considering we lack numbers all over. The only numbers we have are Sony's; they may be wrong, Denny may have misspoken, but they're out there.

And Sony/MS/Nintendo almost always mean shipped when they say sold. It's "sold to retail" to them.

But they make that differentiation, even if it's with extreme weaseldom like 'sold to retail'. It's different from x many 'sales'. Like I said, they don't lie (not because they're honest, but because lies are unnecessary, easy to see through and can get them in trouble).

 

[fearsomepirate]

I'm simply stating that during my visit there was no visibility to this magic bundle that pushed so much hardware and software in such little time.

The anecdote is not a synonym for "data." Even when PR spins for its shareholders, it's still getting its numbers from data.

 

[liolio]

Is it possible that people buying theGeoW1 were older?
As the 360 demographic grows age of the average gamer goes down, GeoW2 may be to gory?
(It's 18+ game no?).

 

[Valzic]

I finally pulled the plug on getting a CONSOLE...

Heavy duty PC gaming is the hallmark of our house for over 15 years. I been reading these console forums for months now and been waffling between PS3 and xBox360.

I pulled the plug on a xBox360 for a variety of reasons. A few of them have been bandied about in this discussion.

Funny thing is I needed a Blu-ray.... and I have 7.1, but the Blu-ray in the PS3 really was not a factor. I think the average person that has a setup that does 7.1 really does not care that you have to spend over 200-300 dollars for a stand alone Blu-ray with those capabilities. What's $200-300 in my current purchase of almost $10,000? I wanted a standalone step up.... the console is not included in my audiovisual setup. If I had gotten stuff last year.. it may have been a factor as the PS3 was in unique position.

Also the comment that Joe6pack likes the free software addins is bang on. It was great that I had 4 games thrown in with my xBox360 Pro. It's really is a smart move for the holidays. I can afford to buy games and I loved having a few games to experiment with without having to decide there and then a "Correct" game for a present. A few gift certificates for my son lets him decide what he wants. I can see if someone is getting a console for a gift and it stretches their budget, to them HAVE to buy games might be a big factor.

I think some of these thoughts I had are pertinent to the numbers between PS3 and xBox360.

 

[Asher]

The interesting thing is that Wii Music is in the top 10 even with a fairly disappointing first week. Not only that, but it undoubtedly cost a lot less to make than other titles within the same order of magnitude in sales.

Yeah, but all of the money they've saved in development cost they've surely spent on one of the most intense advertising campaigns for a video game I've ever seen. It's on every commercial break it seems like.

 

[obonicus]

Yeah, but all of the money they've saved in development cost they've surely spent on one of the most intense advertising campaigns for a video game I've ever seen. It's on every commercial break it seems like.

We get mixed messages on Wii Music's price, though. The game itself says low production values, but we hear about how they had been working on it for two years and how so much work went into it.

 

[tha_con]

I'd love to see how MS2 did 1million. It failed in the US and had very poor showings throughout the European charts. It Japanese sales are crap also. It's got no "legs" Is it *the* bundle throughout Europe? I'm in England right now, was previously in Venice, Rome, Paris and other parts on England. Checked out a few electronics stores and didn't see MS2 bundles or a big push for them.

There might be 1mil copies out there including sold to consumer, sold to retail in the form stand alone copies on shelves and bundles copies sitting in stores but 1mil copies in the hands of consumers, not buying it.

I'll believe Fallout's 4.7mil before I buy the 1mil sold to consumer PR piece.

1 million shipped to retailers is more important to Evolution than 1 million sold to consumers. If the retailers buy the copies, they get the money. I doubt they'll be scrambeling to sell them back to Sony anytime soon.

I fail to see why it's even important to try to determine where the 'sales' are, when you're really only reaching to discredit the title somehow. If retailers bought 1 million copies of the game world wide, then Evolution did good, because those 1 million copies will sell over the course of a few months, and the retailers will more than likely order more stock, and the game will probably reach 2 million shipped world wide, which is what is important to the publisher / developer.

Just saying, the console wars sales stuff is so tired and done to death.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Second, why the heck was MS throwing in 2 free games, 1 with the Arcade (+the usual 5 Arcade freebies),

I thought the same thing last night watching the 360 arcade ad on TV.

It occurred to me that the Arcade is currently cheaper than the price I bought my PS2 at. It was $199, came with no games, and still required the purchase of a memory card.

For all the talk that certain factions like to do about how you need to 'add' to the $199 price of the arcade to get an equivalent Playstation, the reality is that the $199 price is currently all encompassing. You pay it, you have a system you can bring home and play a number of games on with no additional cost.

Those who like to point to 'value propositions' should realize the $199 arcade provides more value than any previous console at the same price point.

 

[NavNucST3]

1 million shipped to retailers is more important to Evolution than 1 million sold to consumers. If the retailers buy the copies, they get the money. I doubt they'll be scrambeling to sell them back to Sony anytime soon.

I fail to see why it's even important to try to determine where the 'sales' are, when you're really only reaching to discredit the title somehow. If retailers bought 1 million copies of the game world wide, then Evolution did good, because those 1 million copies will sell over the course of a few months, and the retailers will more than likely order more stock, and the game will probably reach 2 million shipped world wide, which is what is important to the publisher / developer.

Just saying, the console wars sales stuff is so tired and done to death.

Was Stranglehold a failure or a success?

 

[tha_con]

Was Stranglehold a failure or a success?

I suppose that really depends on how much they spent on budget compared to what they made in sales. Considering Midways situation, no, it was not a success, but they paid big dollars for Unreal 3, then they paid for big voice talent, and had big marketing...it just didn't pay off because the game was average.

In the case of MS: PR, there is no big marketing push, there is no big voice talent, the engine was already in place, etc.

Apples to oranges.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I fail to see why it's even important to try to determine where the 'sales' are, when you're really only reaching to discredit the title somehow. If retailers bought 1 million copies of the game world wide, then Evolution did good, because those 1 million copies will sell over the course of a few months, and the retailers will more than likely order more stock, and the game will probably reach 2 million shipped world wide, which is what is important to the publisher / developer.

Just saying, the console wars sales stuff is so tired and done to death.

It would be important because the debate wasn't about the publisher / developer, it was about the success of games impacting the console manufacturer.

 

[tha_con]

It would be important because the debate wasn't about the publisher / developer, it was about the success of games impacting the console manufacturer.

Yes, that is where the discussion was, until it was turned by RobertR1 into a 'how in the hell did MS: PR sell 1 million copies, my experience in a handful of stores says otherwise".

To a Publisher / Developer, Shipped is sold. They sell the game to the retailer.

Any PR for stuff that is "sold to consumers" (like Microsoft so often releases when Halo hits) is just so more people buy into the hype . If it's bigger than spider man 3, it must be amazing, right? More people buy it, more stock is ordered.

Unfortunately, the way things are now, the used game market makes additional shipments much smaller, so the intial sold to retailers is what the bread and butter is for developers / publishers.

So if MS: PR shipped 1 million copies to retailers / Sony for bundles, then Evolution did pretty good for themselves, since I'm sure MS: PR cost them far less than the original title.

 

[makattack]

The mainstream press have reported on the NPD figures for North America.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds...nys_ps3_a_sinking_ship_sales_plummet_sne.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/12/video-game-sale.html

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/games/2008-12-11-nintendo-wii_N.htm

 

[tha_con]

lol, a 90K difference in sales from last year to this year is considered a 'plummet'?

So cute!

I will say Sony is in "trouble" but far from a sinking ship. They will eventually break even with the PS3. Perhaps they won't be the Sony of Old, but this is far from killing them.

 

[Asher]

lol, a 90K difference in sales from last year to this year is considered a 'plummet'?

Yes, especially when considering their market share in terms of sales (not just absolute numbers).

The market grew considerably, and Sony's numbers and market share dropped considerably despite this being the "year of the Playstation".

 

[eastmen]

lol, a 90K difference in sales from last year to this year is considered a 'plummet'?

So cute!

I will say Sony is in "trouble" but far from a sinking ship. They will eventually break even with the PS3. Perhaps they won't be the Sony of Old, but this is far from killing them.

I have to go check the numbers but I believe that the xbox 360 has ist all time largest lead in the npd numbers LTD over the ps3. that is not a good thing tha ttheir lead keeps growing