Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Globalisateur]

Without raytracing game lighting has a old-fashioned look if you know Cyberpunk 2077 and other titles.

When I look at games with heavy ray tracing it's a new generation in terms of lighting than the above-mentioned titles Plague Tale Requiem (at launch), Horizon Forbidden West and Forza Horizon 5.


Never is a bold word.

It has to be said that lighting is also a big part of the visuals. It is obvious that it has a big influence on the frame rate especially when it was very primitive before.

Exactly. And devs really need to get rid of SSR reflections first (before using RTGI). Those are really standing out as horrible (like in Horizon, Resident evil) in their games after playing games with RT reflections. Stuff like lighting is usually still OK in Horizon but the SSR reflections on water are really not. There are too many very noticeable problems in them.

 

[Jupiter]

RT GI improves the graphics considerably. However, not everyone sees the inaccuracies of conventional GI at first glance. On the other hand no one can overlook SSR artefacts. I don't want to play games like Control or Cyberpunk 2077 with SSR. But it also depends a little on the scenario.

When a game relies a lot on ray tracing, good materials and AA it no longer has that typical gamey look for me.

Again to RT GI. When I played The Division 2 after Cyberpunk 2077 the lighting in outdoor areas looked unbelievable. If you pay attention to something like this and if you know it in good quality games it's harder to accept the lower standards again.

 

[davis.anthony]

Then comes the argument that RTGI can't make shit quality assets look good and it certainly doesn't help CP2077.

 

[Jupiter]

It's not true that the assets in Cyberpunk 2077 are bad. It doesn't matter how often one repeats it. It doesn't make the statement any truer. The materials are actually quite good/realistic. For the worst assets a texture mod is coming soon.

When I play Cyberpunk 2077 it's already a league above Horizon graphically. But it also needs a multiple times faster RTX 4080 for 60 fps. With the new RT arrives the difference will become even greater.

 

[davis.anthony]

It's not true that the assets in Cyberpunk 2077 are bad. It doesn't matter how often one repeats it. It doesn't make the statement any truer. The materials are actually quite good/realistic. For the worst assets a texture mod is coming soon.


When I play Cyberpunk 2077 it's already a league above Horizon graphically. But it also needs a multiple times faster RTX 4080 for 60 fps. With the new RT arrives the difference will become even greater.

CP2077 on max settings with max RT on my RTX 4070ti at 1440p.

CP2077's assets are inconsistent as shit and well below the consistency of the assets in Horizon Forbidden West.

I can provide countless shots of shit quality assets in CP2077 so stop living denial.

There are countless places where the game can go from looking 'next gen' in to looking like an Xbox One S game within a single 90 degree camera rotation.

And that texture mods makes those 2005 era textures look like 2008 era textures.

 

[Jupiter]

Textures from 2005? There was no PBS, POM and Tesselation back then so that statement can't be right at all. Horozon, on the other hand, has outdated lighting in every situation.

When I look at the videos the improvement from the worse textures is clearly recognisable.Why should they be 2008 textures? As if a game like Uncharted 1 would have had textures like those in the modification.

Your examples are also very selective. In the overall impression, this has a subordinate role.

 

[davis.anthony]

Textures from 2005? There was no PBS, POM and Tesselation back then so that statement can't be right at all. Horozon, on the other hand, has outdated lighting in every situation.

When I look at the videos the improvement from the worse textures is clearly recognisable.Why should they be 2008 textures? As if a game like Uncharted 1 would have had textures like those in the modification.

Your examples are also very selective. In the overall impression, this has a subordinate role.

F.E.A.R used POM in 2005 and there were countless PC games with textures just as good or better than those (Some texture mods) so yes, they're 2008 level.

But you said the game has no crap assets, you've been proven wrong.

Even the video you posted shows how shit the assets can be in the game.

Oh and Uncharted 1 had awesome textures with many being better than those in the texture mod.

 

[Jupiter]

I did not say that. If a few assets are bad it doesn't mean that all of them are bad. I can find bad assets in every game. A bigger problem are the pop-ups but they can be fixed with mods.

When I look at the road textures textures here at 8:25 it doesn't look better either.

 

[davis.anthony]

I did not say that.

"It's not true that the assets in Cyberpunk 2077 are bad"

Some of them are bad and some of them are down right fucking awful.

If a few assets are bad it doesn't mean that all of them are bad.

I never said they were all bad.

I can find bad assets in every game.

Good for you but we're not talking about every game, were talking about CP2077.

A game where you claimed "It's not true that the assets in Cyberpunk 2077 are bad"

 

[trinibwoy]

Path tracing will never be a thing in computer games.

It already is. What we call raytracing in modern games is actually backwards path tracing + importance sampling.

Not only is path tracing already here it’s inevitable that it will one day take over primary visibility duties from raster. Where else are we going to spend billions of transistors in the future.

 

[davis.anthony]

Were else are we going to spend billions of transistors in the future.

On raster + RT

 

[trinibwoy]

On raster + RT

Which improvements to raster?

 

[davis.anthony]

Which improvements to raster?

We have multiple decades of software using raster, it's never going to go completely away from GPU's.

 

[trinibwoy]

We have multiple decades of software using raster, it's never going to go completely away from GPU's.

We also had multiple decades of sprites and 2D graphics. That’s not saying anything. Raster is already a tiny part of graphics rendering today (just primary rays and shadows maps really). Its days are numbered.

 

[troyan]

So in other words, it's extremely impressive and devs should keep using it? I agree

Na, they shouldnt use the UE5 at all as long as is as bad as is it. Here is Fortnite 5.1 vs. The Witcher 3 Next Gen:




Not only is the performance impact huge, the UE5 doesnt support a sophisticated Raytracing system - so no standalone RTAO or reflections. There is only Lumen. And Lumen is so slow and has still so many errors. And these Lumen reflections in Fortnite 5.1 are just a joke. This software approach to Raytracing and this stacking of dedicated techniques without reusing ressources is absolut shocking.

 

[davis.anthony]

We also had multiple decades of sprites and 2D graphics. That’s not saying anything. Raster is already a tiny part of graphics rendering today (just primary rays and shadows maps really). Its days are numbered.

You think AMD and Nvidia will drop raster and 30+ years of backwards compatibility in the process?

That's not happening.

Future GPU's will have transistors for raster.

 

[trinibwoy]

You think AMD and Nvidia will drop raster and 30+ years of backwards compatibility in the process?

That's not happening.

Future GPU's will have transistors for raster.

I didn’t say anything about dropping compatibility with old rasterized games or future GPUs not having transistors for raster. A 4090 can still run DirectX 8.

 

[davis.anthony]

I didn’t say anything about dropping compatibility with old rasterized games or future GPUs not having transistors for raster. A 4090 can still run DirectX 8.

You said it's days are numbered.

If a future GPU that's built for path tracing has raster perf just sitting there you don't think they won't find any use for it?

They used the redundant MSAA hardware for VRS

 

[trinibwoy]

You said it's days are numbered.

Correct, raster shadows aren’t long for this world. Rasterized primary visibility will live on for a while but as games become more complex with lots of light sources it will eventually die.

If a future GPU that's built for path tracing has raster perf just sitting there you don't think they won't find any use for it?

They used the redundant MSAA hardware for VRS

Again you’re arguing against things that were never said. The question I posed was where will billions of new transistors be spent in the future not whether future games will find a use for the abundant raster hardware we already have today.

 

[davis.anthony]

The question I posed was where will billions of new transistors be spent in the future not whether future games will find a use for the abundant raster hardware we already have today.

The word 'new' wasn't even used in your original reply.