Nvidia DLSS 3 antialiasing discussion

[The-Nastiest]

But in terms of artifacts, it generates more, period. Measured against the benefits it brings they may be extremely minor, yes. But "less artifacts than the PS5 version" is just pure nonsense.

Flappy Pannus, your posts are well written, well thought out and considered. That said, I would like to make a small suggestion that I hope you consider. Don't reply to posters who debate in bad faith.

As you pointed out, they speak pure nonsense that comes from a place of ignorance and strong bias towards (or against) particular platforms - an absolutely terrible combination.

You make a statement...they give you an incomplete response or reply with an inaccuracy, you disprove their point or further explain your position...they give you an incomplete response or reply with an inaccuracy

It's a waste of time to engage in these back and forth conversations. They don't deserve your time.

 

[iroboto]

Their response was a little unequivocal imo, not really answering the question as to why performance mode was used exclusively (especially as Rich indicated, Quality mode on a 4090 still has enough headroom to reach 120+ fps with DLSS3 in Spiderman). Alex seemed to downplay the difference of DLSS performance mode vs quality in general, the indication I got is that they won't necessarily be testing the effect of different DLSS quality modes with the full review of DLSS3 which I think would be unfortunate.

Empirically this will be very tough and likely the cause of a headache . Through my spectrum tool the difference is likely to be minimal. Honestly a different type of denoiser tool versus reference would be needed and it would be difficult if not impossible to match frames for such a comparison.

I think where I would go in general at least with respect to comparing the modes is to see how dramatic the differences are frame by frame through my spectrum analysis. Typically purely generated frames should largely follow one another, but with dlss3 we should see a saw tooth pattern as it alternates. Perhaps the size of those teeth would give a better idea of how close the quality is to native. But I’m not sure.

Only one man would know! And I’m not sure if he’s using it!

 

[Scott_Arm]

Empirically this will be very tough and likely the cause of a headache . Through my spectrum tool the difference is likely to be minimal. Honestly a different type of denoiser tool versus reference would be needed and it would be difficult if not impossible to match frames for such a comparison.

I think where I would go in general at least with respect to comparing the modes is to see how dramatic the differences are frame by frame through my spectrum analysis. Typically purely generated frames should largely follow one another, but with dlss3 we should see a saw tooth pattern as it alternates. Perhaps the size of those teeth would give a better idea of how close the quality is to native. But I’m not sure.

Only one man would know! And I’m not sure if he’s using it!

You'd have to do something like the following: Run the game at 120fps "native" and save the frames, then run the game at 60 fps with DLSS3 doubling to 120 fps and save the frames. Then compare the generated frames to the matching frames in the original 120fps run

 

[SNYMA]

The new Witcher 3 version will support DLSS 3 ..

 

[pharma]

The pièce de résistance then ...we received a press build supporting DLSS3 and DLSS Frame generation of Microsoft Flight Simulator. The last time I tried this game I was hovering at 35~44 FPS in Ultra HD with an RTX 3090. The raw shader performance of the GeForce RTX 4090 pushes this to 64 FPS. But then the real magic; below we have also added a video have a peek. The results are outstanding. We're flying around in Ultra HD at 125~150 FPS effortlessly, the scenery is stunning with ultra-quality settings. All resolutions show the same framerates, meaning there's a huge bottleneck somewhere. Still, you cannot complain; that's over 2x performance with the flick of a switch.

We had some more pre-release builds available; check out F1 2022 will get updated to DLSS3.0; again Raytracing enabled. The magic is happening with the new DLSS Frame generation feature. It seems it can solve the more considerable Software/CPU limitations (bottlenecks) your PC has.

 

[Maillog]

DLSS 3.0 interpolation artefacts tests from 4090 review

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition Review - Impressive Performance

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition offers huge gains over its predecessors. It's the first graphics card to get you 4K 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled, and upscaling disabled. Do you prefer 120 FPS instead of 60? Just turn on DLSS 3.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[pjbliverpool]

DLSS 3.0 interpolation artefacts tests from 4090 review

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition Review - Impressive Performance

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition offers huge gains over its predecessors. It's the first graphics card to get you 4K 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled, and upscaling disabled. Do you prefer 120 FPS instead of 60? Just turn on DLSS 3.

www.techpowerup.com

Basically saying it's unnoticeable at full speed in game. Awesome stuff!

 

[Putas]

DF review noted frame generation feels worse with a weak CPU, so the most helpful usage might be scratched.

 

[Dictator]

DF review noted frame generation feels worse with a weak CPU, so the most helpful usage might be scratched.

This is due to running an uncapped framerate with extremely poor CPU bound frames. It could feel amazing If you say... Capped the framerate to prevent pure CPU boundedness

 

[pjbliverpool]

DF review noted frame generation feels worse with a weak CPU, so the most helpful usage might be scratched.

Not necessarily as I understood it. This is only an issue if you're CPU limited. So in theory you could set a frame rate limit below the CPU's threshold and then use frame generation on the GPU to double it.

Edit: lol didn't see @Dictator post above before posting this but looks like this would work. The only bit I was unsure of was whether frame generationnwould work within, or ignore the frame rate cap. If as it seems, it ignores it, then I can see how this would be tricky for avoiding screen tearing. Looking forward to @Dictator video to hopefully explain all this later.

 

[yamaci17]

Flight Sim is a really tough case, especially if you're in a Airbus cockpit and JFK airport, you get all sorts of nasty CPU bound framespikes that even the very best CPUs can't solve. And these spikes occur at weird framerates so it will be a very hard challenge for DLSS3 in such cases.

 

[arandomguy]

I'm not sure if "weak CPU" is the right way to look at it either in general. At least from my perspective the use for frame generation isn't to achieve 60 fps but 120fps and even beyond (240 fps+). In that sense all CPUs (and memory subsystems) are "weak" relative to GPUs (and future progression).

I wonder if a future interesting application would be just selective frame generation. As in the generated frames are only used essentially if no next "real" frame is available.

Hopefully we can get coverage also on how it behaves with different types of frame caps. I wonder if how the frames are capped, such as via v-sync, RTSS, driver, in-game, etc. affects the behavior.

Another thing I'd be interested in getting looked at it is how it affects game capture on the user side without relying on external hardware (eg. capture cards). As this might have implications for screen shots, recording, and streaming (both for an audience or actual game streaming).

Also did any review coverage go over whether or not you have to enable DLSS upscaling to enable frame generation? I don't think any DLAA games have this enabled yet, but it will also be interesting to know if you can use frame generation in conjunction with DLAA. Can frame generation be used with DLDSR?

 

[Scott_Arm]

This is due to running an uncapped framerate with extremely poor CPU bound frames. It could feel amazing If you say... Capped the framerate to prevent pure CPU boundedness

Maybe a spoiler for your video, but does the Nvidia control panel frame limiter work with DLSS3 frame generation? I'm assuming msi afterburner and other tools would not work, unless you cap at say 60fps and you get DLSS3 frame generation on top?

 

[Putas]

I'm not sure if "weak CPU" is the right way to look at it either in general. At least from my perspective the use for frame generation isn't to achieve 60 fps but 120fps and even beyond (240 fps+). In that sense all CPUs (and memory subsystems) are "weak" relative to GPUs (and future progression).

That is beside the point. Surely this feature would be most welcome at lower framerates.

This is due to running an uncapped framerate with extremely poor CPU bound frames. It could feel amazing If you say... Capped the framerate to prevent pure CPU boundedness

Some wild options here. Suppose a game runs around 30fps and frame generation is whacky. After capping it to, let's say, 20 to stabilize things could one hope to get ~40 fps output with acceptable quality?

 

[pipyakas]

it'll be interesting to see a capped frame rate (pre frame generation), if it would ensure input stability for the generator
and since DLSS3 can only generate upto 2x the input frame rate, there's no need to limit the final FPS output

 

[davis.anthony]

@Dictator would it be possible for DF to release some 60/120fps video samples of DLSS3 so people can play on their TV/monitor to see what it's like?

I would love to see a clean and high bit rate video of it to see if the I notice the artefacts without spending the £1600 for one.

 

[DavidGraham]

Few things to note:

DLSS 3 (frame generation) always exists as a seaprare toggle, DLSS2 (resolution upscaling) will always exist as a separate toggle, so the user can select either one of them or both if he wants to.

As such, DLSS3 can actually work on native resolution, and can work on DLSS2 balanced, quality or ultra performance or any DLSS2 preset.

Also as such, theoretically DLSS3 can work on FSR1, FSR2 or XeSS images. I want to try those out myself to be honest.

 

[Picao84]

Few things to note:

DLSS 3 always exists as a seaprare toggle, DLSS2 will always exist as a separate toggle, so the user can select either one of them or both if he wants to.

As such, DLSS3 can actually work on native resolution, and can work on DLSS2 balanced, quality or ultra performance or any DLSS2 preset.

Also as such, theoretically DLSS3 can work on FSR1, FSR2 or XeSS images. I want to try those out myself to be honest.

That sounds very weird. I thought that DLSS2 is a pre-requisite of DLSS3? Or by DLSS3 you mean only FG?

 

[DavidGraham]

That sounds very weird. I thought that DLSS2 is a pre-requisite of DLSS3? Or by DLSS3 you mean only FG?

Yeah, DLSS3 here means Frame Generation. And no DLSS 2 is not a prequisite per say, you need a game that is ready for DLSS2 (game engine wise, motion vectors, separate UI pass, ..etc), but you don't strictly need DLSS2 itself.

 

[Picao84]

Yeah, DLSS3 here means Frame Generation. And no DLSS 2 is not a prequisite per say, you need a game that is ready for DLSS2 (game engine wise, motion vectors, separate UI pass, ..etc), but you don't strictly need DLSS2 itself.

Yeah, DLSS implies super sampling which frame generation does not do? It can be very confusing to call it DLSS at all when that's not what it is doing (especially if it works on native as you say).