AMD Radeon RDNA2 Navi (RX 6500, 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900 XT)

Malo said:
I really don't get what you're trying to say sorry.
Click to expand...
I mean the PC is no more a attractive platform. Although meant to be configurable, we have no more affordable entry level.
iGPUs with 500 GPU cores are too slow for actual games, the smallest RDNA3 is rumored to have 5000 cores, which won't be cheap nor 'necessary'.
What we need for games would be something in the middle, but that sweet spot is not covered by anything.
It feels like a dying platform for an old boys club of rich enthusiasts willing to pay thousands just to play games.

So we need a proper entry level, guaranteeing a good experience.
Either by making iGPUs larger and solving the BW problem like consoles do, or by offering affordable GPUs, maybe from older architectures if the actual smallest process is seemingly too expensive for games.
But on the long run neither is not enough. M1 has all those bulky and power hungry gimmicks we use (CPU, RAM, dGPU) in one small chip, matching a Ryzen 5 5600 at cute 15 Watts.
I could order a MacBook Air right now at MRSP, which in comparison to any current PC offers at similar performance is even pretty cheap.
Pretty sure they could double GPU power if they wanted without much of a problem.
Pretty sure others (Qualcomm / Samsung) will soon offer similar efficient solutions.
Not so sure if PC platform still makes any sense then, if it keeps stuck in current high end craze.

Maybe Intel or NV fills the gap. But somehow i doubt it.

pjbliverpool said:
I heard it only applies to their 1000w Alienwares so not a massive deal considering NV only recommends 850w for a 3090.
Click to expand...
'only 850w' really sounds ironic. We have 2021 and constantly increase demand on power instead of reducing it. Everything becomes bulkier not smaller. Prices go the same direction.
And then we talk about 'efficiency' and study benchmarks of halo products which are nice for content creation, making some money, but are ridiculous to use for just games.

I don't have a problem with high end. Scaling up is easy. But i have a problem with expensive high end being the only option, beside some Laptops and SteamBoys which are not enough.
 
JoeJ said:
I mean the PC is no more a attractive platform. Although meant to be configurable, we have no more affordable entry level.
iGPUs with 500 GPU cores are too slow for actual games, the smallest RDNA3 is rumored to have 5000 cores, which won't be cheap nor 'necessary'.
What we need for games would be something in the middle, but that sweet spot is not covered by anything.
It feels like a dying platform for an old boys club of rich enthusiasts willing to pay thousands just to play games.

So we need a proper entry level, guaranteeing a good experience.
Either by making iGPUs larger and solving the BW problem like consoles do, or by offering affordable GPUs, maybe from older architectures if the actual smallest process is seemingly too expensive for games.
But on the long run neither is not enough. M1 has all those bulky and power hungry gimmicks we use (CPU, RAM, dGPU) in one small chip, matching a Ryzen 5 5600 at cute 15 Watts.
I could order a MacBook Air right now at MRSP, which in comparison to any current PC offers at similar performance is even pretty cheap.
Pretty sure they could double GPU power if they wanted without much of a problem.
Pretty sure others (Qualcomm / Samsung) will soon offer similar efficient solutions.
Not so sure if PC platform still makes any sense then, if it keeps stuck in current high end craze.

Maybe Intel or NV fills the gap. But somehow i doubt it.


'only 850w' really sounds ironic. We have 2021 and constantly increase demand on power instead of reducing it. Everything becomes bulkier not smaller. Prices go the same direction.
And then we talk about 'efficiency' and study benchmarks of halo products which are nice for content creation, making some money, but are ridiculous to use for just games.

I don't have a problem with high end. Scaling up is easy. But i have a problem with expensive high end being the only option, beside some Laptops and SteamBoys which are not enough.
Click to expand...

We need an MX400 again.
 
JoeJ said:
I mean the PC is no more a attractive platform. Although meant to be configurable, we have no more affordable entry level.
iGPUs with 500 GPU cores are too slow for actual games, the smallest RDNA3 is rumored to have 5000 cores, which won't be cheap nor 'necessary'.
What we need for games would be something in the middle, but that sweet spot is not covered by anything.
It feels like a dying platform for an old boys club of rich enthusiasts willing to pay thousands just to play games.

So we need a proper entry level, guaranteeing a good experience.
Either by making iGPUs larger and solving the BW problem like consoles do, or by offering affordable GPUs, maybe from older architectures if the actual smallest process is seemingly too expensive for games.
But on the long run neither is not enough. M1 has all those bulky and power hungry gimmicks we use (CPU, RAM, dGPU) in one small chip, matching a Ryzen 5 5600 at cute 15 Watts.
I could order a MacBook Air right now at MRSP, which in comparison to any current PC offers at similar performance is even pretty cheap.
Pretty sure they could double GPU power if they wanted without much of a problem.
Pretty sure others (Qualcomm / Samsung) will soon offer similar efficient solutions.
Not so sure if PC platform still makes any sense then, if it keeps stuck in current high end craze.

Maybe Intel or NV fills the gap. But somehow i doubt it.


'only 850w' really sounds ironic. We have 2021 and constantly increase demand on power instead of reducing it. Everything becomes bulkier not smaller. Prices go the same direction.
And then we talk about 'efficiency' and study benchmarks of halo products which are nice for content creation, making some money, but are ridiculous to use for just games.

I don't have a problem with high end. Scaling up is easy. But i have a problem with expensive high end being the only option, beside some Laptops and SteamBoys which are not enough.
Click to expand...

It’s very simple. They will start selling $200 cards again when the $500 cards stop selling out.
 
trinibwoy said:
It’s very simple. They will start selling $200 cards again when the $500 cards stop selling out.
Click to expand...
That's how it's supposed to be, yes.
But let's look for 6xxx GPUs on Steam HW survey:
AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT 0.18%+0.02%
AMD Radeon RX 6800 0.08%-0.02%
AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 0.18%+0.18%

That's all. Gamers did / could not buy, and the reaction is next generation going more expensive, not less, and Lisa saying 'effect of mining was negligible'.
So do they even care or recognize in time?

We'll see once manufacturing / mining crisis gets resolved. Or we won't see, because demand on upgrade remains still high. They'll sell everything for quite some time, not noticing / ignoring no new people join the platform anymore.
And once the platform feels old school to the young, it won't recover easily if at all.

Not sure if that's reasonable or just pessimism. Things will change for sure in one or the other way.
Regarding AMD, i really think they loose a lot of fan base because fair prices was what they appreciated the most. Winning over NV fans will be very hard, even if they take the perf. crown. It's not just about being the best. NV has a vision, strong research, and strong marketing to transport this.
With inflation ahead, i think whoever has the better offer in entry level will win next round. It remains interesting...
 
It was unavoidable, that some products' prices would have risen, due to the fact that new processes tend to cost more than older ones, with the shortages being added on the top. When a 5nm wafer costs 50%+ than a 7nm one, which was in turn not exactly the cheapest offer in the market, and you have to keep die sizes high because of performance, this does not bode well for future prices. N24 would have been a possible candidate for a 200$ card, but if it exists AMD seems to have no priorities for it, preferring to invest more on APU. Which maybe makes more sense from their point of view.
 
JoeJ said:
That's how it's supposed to be, yes.
But let's look for 6xxx GPUs on Steam HW survey:
AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT 0.18%+0.02%
AMD Radeon RX 6800 0.08%-0.02%
AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 0.18%+0.18%

That's all. Gamers did / could not buy, and the reaction is next generation going more expensive, not less, and Lisa saying 'effect of mining was negligible'.
So do they even care or recognize in time?

We'll see once manufacturing / mining crisis gets resolved. Or we won't see, because demand on upgrade remains still high. They'll sell everything for quite some time, not noticing / ignoring no new people join the platform anymore.
And once the platform feels old school to the young, it won't recover easily if at all.

Not sure if that's reasonable or just pessimism. Things will change for sure in one or the other way.
Regarding AMD, i really think they loose a lot of fan base because fair prices was what they appreciated the most. Winning over NV fans will be very hard, even if they take the perf. crown. It's not just about being the best. NV has a vision, strong research, and strong marketing to transport this.
With inflation ahead, i think whoever has the better offer in entry level will win next round. It remains interesting...
Click to expand...

There’s always doom and gloom about PC gaming at the start of every console generation when the $/perf of the consoles is at its peak. In a few years the consoles will be trounced by cheaper cards and all will be right with the world.

The debate around lack of availability continues to ignore the demand side of the equation. There is no solid evidence that total market supply is below historical levels. Snippets from the last 5 quarterly Jon Peddie AIB reports below. According to these numbers total AIB cards shipped in Q1 2021 was 1% higher than in Q4 2019.

Q1 2020: The first quarter is normally flat to down from the previous quarter. This quarter it was down -19.5% from the last quarter. That is below the ten-year average of -9.7%.

Q2 2020: The second quarter is normally down from the previous quarter. This quarter it was up 6.6% from the last quarter. That is above the ten-year average of -6%.

Q3 2020: Quarter-to-quarter graphics add-in board shipments increased significantly by 13.4% and increased by 9.1% year-to-year.

Q4 2020: The fourth quarter is normally flat to up from the previous quarters. This quarter it was down -3.9% from the last quarter. That is below the ten-year average of -2.8%

Q1 2021: Quarter-to-quarter graphics add-in board shipments increased by 7.1% and increased significantly by 24.4% year-to-year.
 
Bondrewd said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422572492078649346

Someone was asking on "where Mac Pro refreshes be at" and they're here!
Click to expand...
https://www.amd.com/en/press-releas...-w6000x-series-gpus-bring-groundbreaking-high


W6900X 80 CU 256-bit 300W 32GB
W6800X 60 CU 256-bit 300W 32GB
W6800X Duo 120 (total) CU 256-bit (per GPU) 400W 64GB (total)

Mac prices:
  • Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
  • Radeon Pro W5500X with 8GB of GDDR6 memory + $200.00
  • Radeon Pro W5700X with 16GB of GDDR6 memory + $600.00
  • Two Radeon Pro W5700X with 16GB of GDDR6 memory each + $1,600.00
  • Radeon Pro W6800X with 32GB of GDDR6 memory + $2,400.00
  • Two Radeon Pro W6800X with 32GB of GDDR6 memory each + $5,200.00
  • Radeon Pro W6900X with 32GB of GDDR6 memory + $5,600.00
  • Two Radeon Pro W6900X with 32GB of GDDR6 memory each + $11,600.00
  • Radeon Pro W6800X Duo with 64GB of GDDR6 memory + $4,600.00
  • Two Radeon Pro W6800X Duo with 64GB of GDDR6 memory each+ $9,600.00
 
If these are for compute, why is the single chip 80CU part so much more expensive than the dual-chip 2×60CU SKU that will probably offer +50% more compute performance and twice the VRAM?
 
Does this dual GPU part look like a single GPU from the OS standpoint or is it more like 2 distinct GPUs on the same board, kind of situation?
 
Ferman said:
2 x NV21 in 400W. It's power limited.
Click to expand...

We were trying to make the point that they could put two fully-enabled Navi 21's on the same board (and down clocked). If they managed to cram two 2*60WGP Navi 21 GPUs, they could've done it with two 2*80WGP Navi 21 chips, no?

Jawed said:
Maybe AMD knows these are the last GPUs it will ever sell to Apple - AMD is not giving discounts.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the contracts for prices and quantities were finalised a while ago. But who knows, maybe this be part of the story.
 
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